June 5, 2009
Posted: 1905 GMT

WEIMAR, Germany - We have been standing at the live position at the Buchenwald concentration camp all day commenting on the U.S. president’s visit there all day.

After the visit Barack Obama spoke words that soothed a lot of German souls, saying that he respected the Germans for looking their past in the eye, learning from it and trying to become champions of human rights as a result.

Being German I can say, there's a lot more truth in those words than many of us would admit in our everyday lives.

Sixty-four years after the end of World War II we like to think we are moving away from a feeling of "collective guilt" to one of "collective responsibility" to never allow anything similar to happen again, but that is only partially true.

Of course we still ask ourselves: "What would I have done back then?"

"Would I have supported the Nazis, even try to join them and make a career?"

"Would I have been with the resistance, given up everything and risk getting killed for a cause that didn’t seem to have many supporters in those days."

You can't give an honest answer to those questions. We would all like to believe we would have been brave and done the right thing, but we really cannot say for certain.

But the feelings show in German public opinion on a lot of matters.

Many Germans believe the country should not have an army, should not participate in military action outside German borders and that Germany should be a lot tougher on countries that abuse human rights.

I think in many ways we are still afraid of ourselves.

But today the U.S. president has told the Germans: “We respect how far you have come with the past you have.”

And even though this was a stage managed event like all presidential trips, it meant a lot those of us Germans who are disgusted by their nation's past – knowing they can never make up for it, but trying nonetheless.

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Steve   June 5th, 2009 1935 GMT

I respect the Germans for acknowledging their past and working on the present to prevent the same thing from happening.

Now the world just need to get the Japanese (government) to even acknowledge that they were murderous and wrong in WWII..

Francisco   June 5th, 2009 1943 GMT

Now Germany has a chance to take a step in the right direction and encourage the EU to take action against other Hitlers around the world-most notably in Asia and Africa. Keeping one isolated does not do anyone any good. Just because a country doesn't have anything of value doesn't mean that ethically we as a people don't have a moral and ethical responsibility to do what we can for those that are disenfranchised and more unfortunate than us.

Hakeem Shittu   June 5th, 2009 2030 GMT

I would like to believe that majority of Germans having looked at their past in the eye – have learned from it. However this could be far from the truth if one takes a step back to revisit an incident in 1992 when arson attacks were carried out on buildings filled with immigrants in the city of Rostock. This were in the full view of the police, TV and local populace who chanted and hailed the perpetrators. No wonder none of them were brought to justice to date.

Damian   June 5th, 2009 2044 GMT

Knowing one's past is a very important part on every person's life.

Many people in germany have ancestors who lived through the Nazi regime, many chose not to speak about it, but its still a reality and something that will be impregnated in history books for eternity.

Now, coming to terms that these atrocities were carried out during an extremely dificult time for a Germany that was looking for a scapegoat to all its problems, will help people accept the past and learn from it.

Looking the other way wont erase the memory, accepting it, and learning from it, is the only way Germans today will be able to cope with the fact that such an advanced country has a very tainted history.

Lala   June 5th, 2009 2052 GMT

Although I can only agree with Obama's words, if only the US would learn from theirs.

Peter   June 5th, 2009 2056 GMT

Let's not forget the 600,000 german prisoners of war that General Eisenhower starved to death. This, with the full backing of Harry Truman. Let's not forget waterboarding and Abu Ghraib and My Lai, et al

J. Landers   June 5th, 2009 2058 GMT

Our family visited Auschwitz, the concentration camp in Poland, last spring and it is like having a nightmare with your eyes open to see evidence of the intentional, systematic cruelty that was inflicted on the inmates there. When we visited Berlin we did not get the sense that responsibility has been fully acknowledged by the German people. For example, in one museum a whole wall is devoted to showing the polling results from the vote that put Hitler in power. The point is made that many Berliners did not vote for him. Another wall shows famous Berliners who were killed or committed suicide during the war. While all human suffering is tragic, suicides committed when the war turned against Germany are not comparable to the persecution and murder of millions of innocent people. In small print at the end of the exhibit it says that perhaps Berliners' greatest fear is that they will be blamed for the past and have to accept responsibility for it. This exhibit demonstrated that reluctance.

eddy J van Beeck   June 5th, 2009 2101 GMT

Sir: This is always discussed time and time again , many Germans and other European of course have strong opinions and others are indifferent. While living in Germany in 1980's I had some jewish friends who were Israeli and others German jewish. I noticed they always talked about Israeli and their religion, I'm Catholic I never talk about it because to me it's a private manner. One time my German jewish friend said he is first a Jew then a German. My opinion is if your are like that you will always have problems no matter where you live. The German youth are neither responsible nor should they feel guilty about what happened in the past. There have been holocausts in several different countries , american indians , chilean indians and the congolese in the congo free state and also of the palestinian people. But of course they are not mentioned because they don't have financial nor political power. What is important is we should always be tolerant of other peoples culture and not be hateful. One day in German in the summer of 1985 I was waiting at a bus stop in Frankfurt , Germany and this old lady in black just kept looking at me and finally she raised her cane and said to me Juden , Juden I told her and her daughter what is your problem , I'm not Jewish. But it opened my eyes to how blind hatred is , I don't think the problem of anti-semitism will go away until fanatism goes away. also it is very important that governments teach civics and the rule of law , which some countries like Pakistan and Saudi Arabia fail to do. If people want to live with laws that belong in the stone age then they should not be allowed to trade with other countries. That would put pressure on them to change their ways.

J. Schuetz   June 5th, 2009 2141 GMT

While the official Germany demonstrates in Buchenwald their learningcurve, a powerful wing of the the Arbeitministry prints a 25 page rulebook, how missing data can be collected in ihe home of families who seek work or were registered as working poor.

If any of the familymembers want to spend spontaneously a overnight visit out of town they are cut off from healthinsurance and other basic support.
The details to this you find in the following download
http://www.arbeitsagentur.de/zentraler-Content/A01-Allgemein-Info/A015-Oeffentlichkeitsarbeit/Publikation/pdf/Gesetzestext-06-SGB-II-Traeger-Grundsicherung.pdf .
Hardly anybody within the administration refuses to sanction once an opportiunity occurs.

The male life expectations of the millions of poors is often less than 65 years.

joachim schuetz

Marita   June 5th, 2009 2148 GMT

Like you I grew up in Germany and I've never stopped wondering how all this could happen. I've always made it a point to ask older folks in Germany about the war and there are lots of stories.

The main stories that keep coming up are those dealing with living in a country at war: trying to keep food on the table, dealing with the loss of fathers, brothers and sons, fear of the Russians (I think they feared the Russians more than the Nazis), and towards the end the bombs.

When I ask about what they knew about how the Jews were treated, there are also lots of stories, that differ depending on where the people lived. Folks in the very South had stories about Jewish children being hidden and filtered through to other countries. There are also stories about people telling on the kids who then got sent to the camps. Folks a bit further north were talking more about the existence of antisemitism, but also about losing their Jewish friends.

Here's how my grandma put it: 'First, all the men left to go to war (incl. Jewish men), then the boys left, as young as 15; as the war dragged on anyone who had the money to leave did so, then the Jewish people were taken away. After the war very few came back. All the men were gone, many families were gone, incl. Jewish families and all that was left was women, children and some older people.'

She said there was definitely antisemitism, but that no one had any idea what would happen to the Jewish families. Why would they all stand in line to wait for the trains if they knew they would get killed?

She had a Jewish friend who also got on the trains and never came back. My grandma said that the holidays were celebrated together and many had trees and menorahs.

Anyway, I could go on and on! Stories about the end of the war were pretty much the same: Finally! Everyone is eternally grateful to the Americans for putting an end to the war. My mom (then 8) remembers eating her first piece of chocolate she got from an American soldier.

So how could the Holocaust in Germany happen? We can never know for sure, but it seems that the 'distraction' and hardship of living in a war torn country certainly played a role.

I have to add one thing: I watch the news and read newspapers every day, but after all the years I've been in the US, your commentary was probably the first one I've heard from a German's point of view! Either Germans don't like the spotlight, or no one cares to ask – or both?

Stephanie   June 5th, 2009 2301 GMT

Thank you for your commentary. I am an American, living in Berlin, working in Humanitarian Aid. One of the main reasons I decided to base in Berlin was my sense that the German people took seriously the idea of social responsibility. I am always uncomfortable with the sense that people are doing this as reparation, but am also continually humbled with the conviction and sincerity that Germans serve our world both socially and environmentally. Your sentiments are moving. Germany is a great nation with an incredible people and I am honored to live here and have the opportunity to watch you redevelop who you are at this place in time.

Karin Tilberg   June 6th, 2009 022 GMT

Thank you.

David Chan   June 6th, 2009 247 GMT

I give today's Germans wholehearted credit for their postwar efforts - they bear a unique burden. Meanwhile, the Japanese government has yet to show true contrition, and the Israeli treatment of Palestinians shows that even victims can lapse into questionable conduct. I say that with regret because I hold Jewish and Japanese cultural and intellectual achievements in the highest regard.

Harrison obiefule   June 6th, 2009 338 GMT

Violence runs in their{Germans}veins.they're only trying to be modest because they've lost it all.If Germany was Russia during the cold war era,heavens know we would have thirld world war.check out their history including WW1 & WW11

Steven S   June 6th, 2009 534 GMT

Yes, many innocent people died in Buchenwald at the hands of the Germans during WW2, but let's not forget the thousands of innocent Germans who died in that same camp at the hands of the Russians, who continued to operate it for several years after the war as a prison camp for former German soldiers and political prisoners who were opposed to their new Communist oppressors. A very sad story, indeed.

Brian   June 6th, 2009 641 GMT

I am glad that President Obama is leading the world toward a higher level of consciousness. As both a black and white man he possesses unique perspective on both sides of these tough historical issues (civil rights, holocaust, immigration, etc). There must have been many wonderful and kind German people even when the evil ones controlled the country. Many were certainly cowed into submission; others brainwashed. How many regular liberal-minded middle class white people would be speaking out if a violent hate group were to rise to power in America and control the media and all the jobs and schools? The young Germans deserve better than the sins of the older generation. I hope that they will learn the lessons well and be in the vanguard in defence of human rights and the poor and suffering around the globe.

Gennadi A. Marinin   June 6th, 2009 952 GMT

German people, I am a Russian man, who grew up in the post war Russia, in the Crimea. My father and mother fought the fascist invaders in the war. My father was badly wounded in Sevastopol, the naval base in the Crimea. My mother lost all of her 5 brothers in that war. Today I still cry thinking about those days. Before he died, my papa insisted that I forgive. “Son”, said he, “I cannot forgive, but you must remember and forgive, for all of us, one way or the other need forgiveness”, and I do forgive. German people, you need not torture yourself with these questions, for each one of us are capable to reach the greatest heights of human endeavor and fall into the deepest hell of inhumanity. The patch of German history that was Hitler was but an illness, albeit horrible in its consequences yet not unique to the German people. I grew up on Mozart, Beethoven, Bach, Schiller, Goethe, and Gauss forever in awe at the contribution of this nation to our common humanity. Germans, you need not feel neither individual nor collective guilt for the past deeds of your ancestors, but rather recognize that that was evil and be proud of that that was good. And you did that! The world needs you.

Lahrmeier   June 6th, 2009 1043 GMT

President Obama's words in Buchenwald are welcome and an important sign, how this administration judges these terrible historical events.
It would be very encouraging, when this administration could also find a way to remember the atrocities of the US army in Vietnam.

It's not to late to help this traumatized country, while many victims of this terrible agent -orange kind of war are still alive

Primo Palasi   June 6th, 2009 1102 GMT

"If you were a German and was there, would you have supported the Nazis". I am not a German. But if I were asked the question, I will say I would have joined the Nazis. It boils down to the heart. The question reveals human depravity encouraged by misplaced national pride. Humankind is by nature haughty at heart. It takes non-human intervention from without to bring humility, true remorse and compassion to the oppressed. Then we can be free from guilt and from being afraid of ourselves.

Primo Palasi
Philippines

stefan krobitzsch   June 6th, 2009 1207 GMT

I am not disgusted with my german past,refering to Hitler.And I see this in the light of the much worse past which these arrogant ex british as new americans have done in the US with hundreds of years of genocide committed to the native indians,their slavery past,the genocide that the ex british new australians committed to the australian aborigines,an endless stream of blood. And what Israel is doing in Nazi style to the Palestinians since 1948.And this is 2009.
Israel with the jews is the worst enemy of mankind.There wouldn't have been any 9/11 without Israel's attitudes.
I am sick and tired as proud postwar german to have to deal with this endless jewish revange politics against Germany while Israel is behaving like pig of highest potency.For me Hitler was right.Fullstop.

Anna   June 6th, 2009 1209 GMT

Champions of human rights ?? Germany looking their past in the eye ?? It's too bad everything like this has been said only when the anniversaries begin.... Too bad Poland has to constantly remind of the truth...

Tom Suprock   June 6th, 2009 1254 GMT

The German disgust with their past and honesty about it have truly earned the respect of the world.

I wish the Turks would take a lesson from your citizens about facing their past with Armenia; they could rise to the level of international respect the Germans have. Godspeed.

River Steuter   June 6th, 2009 1255 GMT

As the child of a rape victim carries no guilt for the sins of his father neither do the children of the Nazis need to make up for the horrors that were committed by their ancestors. Nor in fact should any descendants be held responsible for the crimes of their progenitors no matter how heinous they might be. We all have a murderer in the roots of our family tree somewhere if we go back far enough.

Equally so, the progeny of a victim should not been given cart blanch to commit their own atrocities. We are born into the world with a clean slate upon which to write our own legacy. Whether our parents were victim or oppressor, we must indeed be accountable for the actions we carry out in our lifetime. It would serve mankind much better if we focused ourselves on dealing with the crimes of humanity that occur today. Losing ourselves to a past, which we can never change or worse yet use for the purpose to justify the suffering of others does nothing to improve the world that we live in.

“I'm starting with the man in the mirror
I'm asking him to change his ways
And no message could have been any clearer
If you wanna make the world a better place
Take a look at yourself and then make a change”

from Man in the Mirror
- Glen Ballard, Siedah Garrett, Michael Jackson

Mariana Georg   June 6th, 2009 1352 GMT

I agree with Mr. Obama and the fact that we cannot change our past but that we are more than willing to change our future and to make the best out of it.
I am 21 years old and have absolutely nothing in common with this terrible time of 1939 until 1945. But still I feel guilty and ashamed of my country's history and still have to face prejudices which sometimes make me really said and angry.

However Germany is my home country and I love living here, but that does not make me a Nazi, just because I am proud of my country and how far we made it until now.

John   June 6th, 2009 2129 GMT

Tough gig being a German and looking at those well documented tragedies. But the truth is it isn't German, it's human. Every country has a long history of bloodshed and there many equal or worse events in human history: the Japanese in Nanking, Russia, Cambodia, the Crusades, the Romans, the Inquisition, most African history, the slave trade in the Americas, the Spanish invasion of South and Central America, the Purges, los desaparacedos, the Islamic tribal warfare in Africa, the Mongols, the Viking raids, the English and Americans against the North American Indians, etc., etc. Germany just got a bad rap because it was so mechanized.

AC Smith   June 6th, 2009 2346 GMT

Fascinating perspective. Thanks so much for posting it up, Frederick.

Having grown up in the United States, I've always felt somewhat at a loss to understand the experience of being a contemporary German.

I guess the closest I can come is the experience of my contemporaries (I'm an older edge Boomer) who grew up in the Deep South; but even that is clearly imperfect.

In just a few grafs here, you've shared a lot, and it has real value. Again, thank you.

Heather   June 7th, 2009 025 GMT

I was a German studies major in the 90s and went to study abroad in college knowing really very little about Germany. My grandfather was a soldier in the war and like many Americans I had a strong sense of pride in my country and my Grandparent's generation for doing what had to be done in 1941. Upon arriving in Germany, I was immeadiately struck by how much more aware of world events the Germans were compared to college kids on my "liberal" California college campus. I was also impressed to learn that instead of their year of military service, the German government allowed people to do humanitarian trips to third world countries. They were at least a decade ahead of us in humanitarian awareness of Africa, Asia and the Middle east, as well as ecological concerns and I recoil everytime I hear Americans blather about Nazi stereotypes or how we "kicked their ass" in the war.

cheryl   June 7th, 2009 207 GMT

"Your past doesnt define your future" and as a country your have proved to the world that you have learned from the past.

Beez, Virginia USA   June 7th, 2009 524 GMT

I think I may, in a way, understand how Obama made you feel about your nation's collective burden of guilt that you as an individual are not responsible for. I am the descendant of slave owning white southerners, but when I cast my vote in November somehow I felt it was OK for us all to move forward now. I hope that's how you felt anyway.

tonysh   June 7th, 2009 1046 GMT

And let us not forget that over sixty years have gone by. Most Germans had no choice in the years of the brutal Nazi dictatorship (check out the fate of Sophie Scholl, Liane Berkowitz and the Edelweiss Pirates among others if you do not believe that). Germans now have choices, express them positively and have every reason to be proud of how far they have come since 1945.

miriam   June 7th, 2009 1337 GMT

These are very important comments to make, despite being difficult.
Just as important is that they be heard.
I think that the younger generations in Germany have had a great burden to carry and have managed to deal with it honestly and with respect towards many who still regard them as guilty of their ancestors' deeds.

RetiredLE   June 7th, 2009 1548 GMT

Thank you for sharing your thoughts. It was well said and from the heart.

Mike

ah75   June 10th, 2009 1702 GMT

Thanks for sharing your story.

When I was in high school back in the '90s my family had a German exchange student live with us for about 6 months. This was in the midst of the first Gulf War, and the country had erupted in a patriotic fervor of American flags, banners on highways, and yellow ribbons around tree trunks.

I remember our exchange student was surprised and a little taken aback by this because in Germany, flag-waving isn't exactly encouraged. Too many negative associations.

I think those of us in the USA ought to keep this in mind. Sure, there are many things in our country we can be rightfully proud of, but let's not be so self-congratulatory that we forget all the devious, unjust, and downright wrong things that have taken place in the USA, and that have been done abroad in the interest of our "national security".

Dee   June 11th, 2009 1003 GMT

Hakeem Shittu June 5th, 2009 2030 GMT

I would like to believe that majority of Germans having looked at their past in the eye – have learned from it. However this could be far from the truth if one takes a step back to revisit an incident in 1992 when arson attacks were carried out on buildings filled with immigrants in the city of Rostock. This were in the full view of the police, TV and local populace who chanted and hailed the perpetrators. No wonder none of them were brought to justice to date.

Uh yeah a single incident 17 years ago clearly wipes out more than 65 years of progress on the part of the German people in renouncing the evil of the Nazis and working hard to become good respected people.

I once had a conversation with a Polish-Jewish woman. We were both university students at the time (around 2002). I was interested in investigating the rumors that an eniter branch of my family had been wiped out in WW2 concentration camps. She told me, "you know you can NEVER (her emphasis) trust a German!" I neglected to inform her that I was married to a German woman.......... Amazing what people will tell you when you let them speak there mind without introducing a factor that would cause them to put a filter in place.
Without a doubt we would call a German saying that about a Jew an anti-semetic person. What do we call the Jew saying that about the German?

Heavypast   June 11th, 2009 1615 GMT

Truth is the Germans/Austrians did not clean up after the war – as my grandparents came back from the US in 1947, the old guard was still in place (only 10,000 Nazis left for South America via the Odessa and other organisations). Nazi generals and party members who had stayed in Germany/Austria had turned lawyers, mayors, successful entrepreneurs... or even doctors. Helping each other (Himmler's daughter's activity after the war and her imprisonment is a good example of this support) and turning their backs on those who had resisted. My grandparents received so much hate mail from "former" Nazis decades after the war that there are volumes to be published....
The US and Allies for their part only lightly helped to clean up, as the Soviet menace and Chaos were looming. More pressing issues to tackle... it is virtually impossible to clean up an entire country, dangerous to totally change a system.
Resistance? Most German resistants (exception made of free-thinkers, politics -SPD, communists, etc – and intellectuals first to be deported) only really started activity when it was obvious the war was going to be lost: Stauffenberg etc. and saw Germany, their Germany, being brought to it knees. Hitler was quite lucky at escaping several attempts against his life, but the most serious threat (Stauffenberg &co) only came in summer 1944...
The journalist's self-questionning "would I have taken up resistance": how many did... less than 1000 Germans were recognized for helping Jews during the war... check the Yad Vachem website... the journalist is right, at the height of the war, most non-involved Germans were struggling to put food on the table; this combined with a strong fear from the system – virtually every community had a person deported.

Still, the RosenStrasse protest (wifes/relatives of Jews taken away, marching through Berlin in 1943) is an interesting event – eventually the imprisoned Jews were liberated and many survived the war. It keeps us wondering: what would have happened if Germans had collectively raised their voices....?

Interesting to read Himmler's speech at Posen in oct 1943.... nazism was truely a case of mass-hallucination... to review the pictures of open space nazi gatherings (1933 onwards), to look at the individual faces, and witness the other side of the coin: by reading the books of Primo Levi for instance, is probably more telling than a visit to today's Buchenwald (repainted barracks, freshly moved grass, kids playing around...).

Leigh   June 16th, 2009 1856 GMT

I am disgusted with some of the German comments and the anti-Israel vitriole. Israel was attacked in numerous wars and the so called "occupation" of territory came about because Israel captured this land in a war it did not start. The same areas were contolled by Jordan and Egypt pre-1967. Where was the outcry then??? As the grandchild of Jews murdered by Germans in Auschwitz, I can tell you that there was and always will be an undercurrent of antisemitism in Germany which exists to date. My gfather survived Kristallnacht and he has always told of his astonishment re how long-time neighbors and so called friends lost no time beating and murdering Jews once it was officially "sanctioned", Therefore, while it is is nice that the Germans are being somewhat introspective, I unfortunately do not believe thisrepresents a a national trend.

H. Scharnbeck   June 24th, 2009 1254 GMT

Obama is right – despite these many negative comments I am reading here. It is always the exceptions that draw public attention. Obama speaks about the majority of the German people and in each and every country or state you have minorities or just individuals that often exaggerate their way of thinking – or the media blow up their points, distorting the real picture, sorry. I have been living in Germany from 1931 to 1998 and exposed to or participated in many such discussions, so I know both sides, believe me, please.

Joe McClain   June 28th, 2009 1310 GMT

"As long as people believe in absurdities they will continue to commit atrocities." -Voltaire

One thing I've noticed in these comments has been the ability to pick and choose segments of History which fit the beliefs of the writer. Those who do not know History are doomed to repeat it and anyone who believes that germans are exceptional in their antisemitism is ignorant of Egyptian history, Roman history, Spanish history, Greek history, Russian history or American history. I'm an American living in Berlin and I find it shameful that the world passes judgement on how well the evil germans have learned the error of their ways when Americans have never had to admit to anything. The holocaust is required education in Germany, but I wonder how many Americans ever learned in school that Hitler used America as a genocidal role model and admired the efficiency with which the native American indians were annihilated.

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