Christies has made ample funds from the Auction themselves, and their client was donating the money raised to charity...with the clients permission, the two bronzes should be melted down and recast into two donkeys so that China can be presented with the asses, the event captured on film for presentation on YouTube, or perhaps as an IReport.

Mr cai,well done

unusual action should be taken to robbers

Another chinoiserie!

How stupid is that, you bid for something and say that it should be returned to China for free. What is the point this guy was trying to drive home. I guess if this is to happen, Chinese should stop selling knock-off YVS stuff as well.

i am still very angry with what happened in Paris about the torch relay, so i support this.

an auction for these sculptures is equivalent to looters selling their ill-gotten riches for money, regardless of the fact that the items may have changed hands, and it may be now legally owned. so what if part of the auction proceedings will go to charity. if he is truly keen to do charity, do so with his own wealth. to think he has the audacity to bargain with the chinese government on the tibet issue using the sculptures as exchange. obviously, he knows this will not happen and he is simply being irresponsible about his, i supposed he thought intelligent, remarks.

while it maybe legal for the auction to proceed, but since when did legality implies morality? to hide behind the thin veil of the law while clearly knowing that one's own action is not ethical, deserves to be reciprocated with actions of a similar nature. if the rightful owner has to pay for items looted from his house to be returned, there can be no justice!

in such a case, where the strong may do as he pleases, pehaps then there should also be a looting of the lourve? or a sacking of buckingham palace? afterall, these are no longer the days of napolean bonaparte or queen victoria.

i think the french government should just return their ill gotten items looted from other nations during the colonial times, at their own cost. in fact, this should be the case for any other country that have committed similar atrocities.

I can understand why many people agree with this gentleman's actions, but I do not. If all the art in museums were returned to it's country of origin, there wouldn't be many museums left. There is also the point that the Chinese don't respect international copyright laws and steal billions of dollars of software, books, and music. So it is my opinion that they should pay for it.

Childish.

Enjoy seeing those bronzes go to the next highest bidder, folks!

It's not a wise solution at all. But I think it's only Cai's personal behavior and it cannot represent China's attitude as a whole.
Nonetheless, this is a good way to create buzz!

On Ebay, we would simply sell it to the second-runner-up if the winner didnt pay. Maybe the auction house should too...

Mr. Cai's actions seem a very poor reflection on his business ethics. What did it prove? That the auction house should require a certified cheque before accepting a bid?

March 3rd, 2009 1929 GMT

On Ebay, we would simply sell it to the second-runner-up if the winner didnt pay. Maybe the auction house should too

buyer of stolean product would jails for 2 years too.

previously case, on ebay, an buy who accident buy an stolean London underground hat have been jailed for 2 years. he stills in prison. they may gives no any mention for release date yet. because they want to makes sure that definitive warning to ebay buyer to buy cheaper stolean product.

If all museums had to restitute each piece to their country of origin, many western (and especially american ) museums would be empty.
This attitude reflects the way some Chinese imagine their relationship with other countries...There is a small Eiffel tower in China: send it back to France!

It’s not a wise solution at all. But I think it’s only Cai’s personal behavior and it cannot represent China’s attitude as a whole.
Nonetheless, this is a good way to create buzz!

I do agree that cai behaviour are very fit to communist supporter. but majority of chinese preferable to have china hitler party to used hitler invasion method to gain stolean product. this is called law enforcement in your language.

Brian
french highness does not takes your cheaper bids . because they are mental to looking for wrong price . I knew you are very healthy and normal. but they will put you off in your current job. because your price are too "little" for their mental heart.they hates you very much. it is very normal that you should not pay for any insult .

Ok people, these two statues were looted from their imperial palace during the 19th century. Essentially, brits, french and other european soldiers, sacked their seat of government, burned down their buildings and other treasures, and then some of these soldiers brought the treasures home with them.

I hate to say it to the current 'owner' - you or your ancestors may not be the ones who did the looting, but these statues were stolen property, and you wonder why these chinese people were livid.

It's very hard to argue why the chinese should not have their stuff returned to them - it's common sense.

At some point along the line, a CHINESE national acquired and sold these items to Westerners for a chunk of money. The terms "stolen" or "looted" dont actually apply here. Maybe someone sold off some family heirlooms, maybe a site digger swiped them and sold them in a back alley, maybe a farmer dug them up in his field and sold them to the first person willing to pay for them. The point is that SOME WESTERNER DID eventually pay for them and now owns them. If the Chinese had really cared so much about them, they would not have ended up in France to begin with. Perhaps it is only their current pricetag that gives them value? The last known person to pay actual money for these was Yves St Laurent and they are now part of his estate. That estate deserves to be compensated. China could have purchased them if they meant that much to their country and culture. Alas, Westerners have put the higher pricetag on them and are willing to pay for them to sit in their own personal collections.

I heard similar tales of "Western looting" of Russian Icons several years back – turns out they were stolen BY RUSSIANS from the local churches or from elderly family members in need of cash more than the old family heirlooms hanging in the dining room.

My grandma always said you better be SURE before accusing someone of theft...

What matters is the sculptures have not disappeared for another century. Deception or not, it worked, likely they would have disappeared into oblivion, and now there is time for justice to prevail and pieces to be returned to their rightful owners the people of China. End of story.

I'm a bit puzzled by this. It is 'ok' to publicly sell looted items as long as they were looted before 1970 but it's not 'ok' to share music from a long dead artist (Beatles/Elvis etc).
Perhaps the Chinese should hire the RIAA and MPA?

Perhaps we'll see a Madoff auction at Christies in a few years....

This sounds like a case for the police if the sculptures were really stolen. Once the police prove or disprove the theft then one can determine if China should have them back. If they are not stolen then they can be put up for auction again; the notoriety should help drive the price up a bit.

Tina Tafoya, Washington DC,

it would serve you well to do some research on articles you feel compelled to comment on, for whatever reasons. and it is not difficult really, you just have to wiki it. in fact, i have even provided the url below.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Summer_Palace

if this is not robbery, what is?

infringement of copyright laws and this are 2 different issues, and should be dealt with separately. if any individual feels that it is justifiable in his own warped sense of justice that multiple issues spanning different space and time, can be moulded together, and tit for tat is the best form of justice, perhaps then, along his similar line of reasoning, torture at guatanamo bay detention camp, dropping of atomic bombs on nagasaki and hiroshima, genocide of jews in nazi concentration camps are all justified acts of the long outstretched arms of justice then.

if the great musuems of europe can only exist by displaying looted items, i am really appalled by the lack of substance and culture in the entire history of europe. that is not to say, how does any civil society hope to be perceived by others, if items looted are called their own, and then outrightly displayed for all to see? i think babaric will fit nicely here.

I think a history and the progress. I think they must think a technology.

Chill down, gentlemen. Nobody stole from nobody!

The story goes: the native American Indians simply and kindly gave some of the land to Columbus (Washington, District of Columbia) representing the British King. Then French stole Louisiana, Russians did Alaska, Spaniards the rest. But eventually America paid up all these (the payment was made to French, Russians and Span, although the native Indians who should be paid, but again they had no use of currency). The land was dirt cheap anyway, a couple of cents for an acre. All paid was less than the bidding amount of the two stupid bronze fountainheads. That's why today, we all are sure that grandma didn't need to steal (and then she wasn't much in debts, either).

The Chinese really need to establish a Thanks Giving holiday to appreciate the French's taking (they do like to take, eih?) of the ugly bronze fountainheads, just like grandma in America did for the Indian's corn and birds. Wait a sec, maybe the other way around – the Indians should celeberate the Thanks Giving for grandma's taking (buying really) of their lands, eih?

Oops, did Canada pay? When? And how? Anyho, nobody stole from nobody. Grandma says so! We are all good people, aren't we? (Canadians may be a little bit suspicious although.)

Period. Just return to the owner and have a good nice sleep at night. Forgive and forget...

Penny wise pound foolish. China may pay for this in generations, in business honesty is a key to success and this showed that some Chinese businessmen are really dishonest.

I think the Chinese gov't may pay back. The gov't can't allow one bad apple to destroy the rest.

PLA should send commandos to take the mona lisa from the lourve and nuke the rest of paris. hide the mona lisa for 50 years and then sell the back to the french in small pieces.

I don't get it. So, he refused to pay... now Christie's will need to re-auction them. It seems like a pointless act. What does bidding and then not-paying prove?

If he paid for them, as he agreed to do as an authorized bidder, then China would have their statues back. Not paying only adds further humiliation to the PRC.

If China wanted to make a political statement, there are many ways to do so after paying for the statues.

From a historical standpoint, listen: every country has been wronged. IT'S LIFE... IT'S THE HUMAN CONDITION... so get over it. Every race has been downtrodden and every nation has been humiliated. China is supposed to be the shining star of the 21st century, not a disgruntled whiner wallowing in the dregs of her past...

Were the purchased in China or taken out of the country illegally? If not, Cai Mingchao should be banned from all further auctions at Christi's. Perhaps Christie's should require a bond from every person who registers to bid. If they bid on a piece and don't pay–they lose the bond.
Chrisit's should contact the 2nd highest bidder and see if he is willing and able to make the purchase. Cai Mingchao should not be able to get away with this.

let's get this straight once and for all, using a simple analogy.

Mr A and B one day decides to appear at C's home with guns and ammunition. At gunpoint, they robbed him of his jeweleries etc and then set his house on fire.

Days later, Mr D is selling those items on ebay. Mr C decides to go to court to demand a return of these items to the rightful owner. The judge rules his request as invalid. At the same time. Mr D tells everyone, yes i am aware these are stolen items, and yes, i did pay for them, and indeed if Mr C wants them back he has to pay for them even though I am fully aware these are really his properties!

For those insisting on commenting on this issue but refuse to get into the entire background/history of the issue, this should just about paint the right background story. i do not know of any other simpler ways.

so, please stop telling me that the chinese should pay for the sculptures if they want it so badly. it is never about the sculptures. it is about return of looted cultural items to the rightful owner. and to set the record straight, there was a letter from a team of chinese lawyers to the french court to stop the auction, and was ruled invalid. having exhausted the legal option, one particular chinese (quoting Mr Cai, any chinese would have done the same) by the name of cai mingchao decided to resort to an underhanded mean to sabotage the auction.

to think that the Intergovernmental Committee for Promoting the Return of Cultural Property to its Countries of Origin or its Restitution in case of Illicit Appropriation was set up in Paris 1978 and france was among the 22 member states!

yes, indeed it is the human condition that at some point of time in history, some one may suffer wrongfully at the hand of another. but failure to rectify the mistakes of one's own action but rather to further wrongfully benefit from one's past wrongdoing, is it then also the human condition that the perpetrator should continue to act wilfully while the victim continues to suffer in silence? Listen: it is the rights of china to demand the return of these sculptures. if you disagree you may refer to UNESCO resolution 20 C4/7.6/5. However, even without that resolution, in the above scenario, Mr C is the rightful owner those stolen items. even if the court throws his case out, it does not in any way, diminish the fact he is the rightful owner. It merely reflects upon the ineptitude of the legal system. he is merely exercising his rights. he may give up his right maybe because mr D needs the money badly to buy AIDS medicine, but he should never give up his rights because mr D has bigger guns or is backed by some mafia boss. if you disagree, refer to your conscience.

I am keeping my fingers crossed about china being the new shining star. But shining star or no, any country that has its cultural properties looted has every right to demand their return. France, being a member state of the abovestated committee, chooses to turn a blind eye to this incident, should be the country to suffer a second humiliation, first one for being looters. China, on the other hand, is merely exercising her rights. When the french law cannot uphold justice, a chinese citizen will rather tarnish his own reputation and protect the rights of his country, this turn of events only further highlights the uncivil nature of the auction.

and for those who are not aware, the chinese foreign ministry has on several occasions contacted their french counterpart to seek a halt to this auction, but to no avail. there is a chinese saying, translated into english: dogs can never change the habit of eating faeces. it will be a real shame if one day this highly derogative saying has to be used on the french.

France has habits of selling stolen properties. But how have they been doing?

Some say: "The Louisiana Purchase (French: Vente de la Louisiane "Louisiana Sale") was the acquisition by the United States of America of 828,800 square miles (2,147,000 km2) of the French territory Louisiane in 1803. The U.S. paid 60 million francs ($11,250,000) plus cancellation of debts worth 18 million francs ($3,750,000), a total cost of $15,000,000 for the Louisiana territory."

I say: OMG, only $15,000,000?! France lost! And France lost again because Cai ain't going to pay up.

Yep! The fact is grandma did not steal, she bought it for cheap. It was truly a great deal! In English, people call a good deal – "a steal"! They are really expressing a happiness not an excusation. Congratulation, Tofaya, $15,000,000 for a half America, what a steal for grandma. I mean "steal".

So, this fool got his 15 minutes – time to move on.
All the millionaires in China now and no one steps up?? How typical.

The nature and extent of the destruction of the Old Summer Palace, the Gardens of Perfect Brightness, in Peking (now Beijing) in 1860 by Anglo-French troops and the looting even shocked soldiers who took part in the adventure. One of the looters, Charles Gordon, a British soldier, wrote to Victor Hugo after the looting:

“We went out, and, after pillaging it, burned the whole place, destroying in a vandal-like manner most valuable property which [could] not be replaced for four millions. We got upward of £48 apiece prize money…I have done well. The [local] people are very civil, but I think the grandees hate us, as they must after what we did the Palace. You can scarcely imagine the beauty and magnificence of the places we burnt. It made one's heart sore to burn them; in fact, these places were so large, and we were so pressed for time, that we could not plunder them carefully. Quantities of gold ornaments were burnt, considered as brass. It was wretchedly demoralising work for an army.”

He bragged about the crime, didn't he? The ugly fountainheads lost from that looting.

Straight out of CNN's front page:

Would you want to buy Gandhi's sandals and glasses?
Yes 22%
No 78%

Perfect comparision...

Sons of looters might not be looters, but
Swags are still swags after 149 years.

Nice move, I like this sabotage.

Respect to cultural heritage please. This auction is like selling Abraham Lincoln’s inauguration bible in Hong Kong. Respect to others so others will do the same!

Stupid, as it accomplished nothing. It just means that he passed up an opportunity to get the artifacts back. They're not going to be gifted, folks, they're privately owned and that's just not how it works.

China isn't going to be some shining star, this man's actions is a reflection of that whether you people want to admit that or not. That's the same thinking people thought about china not going to be affected "at all" from the WORLDWIDE recession. Utter nonsense, stop living in the clouds.

"Sons of looters might not be looters, but
swags are still swags after 149 years."

Well said! Bravo!

To Zim:

I'm sure that there's a difference between "gifted" and "returned".
You like me to take your wallet and return it to you as a gift, don't you?

quote

"Statistics from the United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization suggests about 1.67 million Chinese cultural relics are held by more than 200 foreign museums in 47 countries. Some estimates put the number of Chinese cultural relics of that kind collected by individuals at 10 times that figure."

unquote

most of these were either looted or stolen. if we did a simple google search on the price of the other animal bronze sculptures recovered and returned to China, the price have since shot up sky high. it will probably cost less to re-build Yuan Ming Yuan than to buy back all the looted items. All whom stand to benefit are those so called private collectors of looted cultural properties of China (some may have bought them hoping to sell them at auctions back to China at huge profits) and auction firms.

it is more important in my opinion that history must never be allowed to repeat itself. foreign troops must never again be able to set foot on Chinese soil. All the resources spent on recovering our cultural properties are better spent on rebuilding the chinese economy and military.

quoting winston churchill :A nation has no permanent enemies and no permanent friends, only permanent interests

a strong China will have foreign statesmen scrambling to Beijing to return these looted items. till then, we will just to have to settle for the fact that the throne of Qianlong emperor sits in the victoria and albert museum in london. the time will come when our cultural properties will be rightfully return to us, without our request nor at our cost. meantime, we must never allow ourselves to fall into their ploy of making us pay for what is rightfully ours.

To justify and mobilize his genocidal movement against the Jewish people, Hitler exhibit them in poor conditions in the concentration camps before the WWII. The Jews indeed looked dirty, scared, disempathetic and desperate, behind the bars guarded by SS troopers. Using these pictures, Hitler thought he prove the inferiority of Jewish people. So Germans agreed and followed their great leader Hilter ... the rest is history.

Just skim all these biased story in the category of "China" in this CNN blog, you will found the same strategy is being used against the Chinese but with morden technology – CNN and better skills. Better skills they have because they were actually the victims of Hitler and they are good learners.

Another similarity: the German people didn't really care the credibility of Hitler's "evidence" supporting his claims of other people's inferiority. Neither the readers of CNN. Both simply followed him and CNN – not blindly but willingly. Why?

Did grandma say "be careful to follow this kinds of things"? Oops, no?

After they burnt down the palace, the French and English gentlemen took the two stupid and ugly fountainhead back to France because they were designed by French missioners a few years back. Also because they were small and light enough to be carried in boats.

After overwhelming the Indians and taking their land, Columbus could not take it back to England because it was too heavy (he took some gold back though). Later Grandma (or grandpa, eih?) changed land's name to the District of Columbia.

Think again. These things were not taken behind owners back, so not stolen technically. These European gentlemen actually took these things right in front of the owners faces after knocking them noses bleeding. These were not even deals because not a penny was paid to those bruised owners. A great deal would have been also said "a steal" otherwise.

That's why Tofaya mentioned that grandma did not want the French to be called for something they didn't do. She identified and understood.

The Chinese are shown their inferiority by CNN here in arguing whether these were stolen or were taken? What the difference?! The French just wants the money! People sell things or sex for money for thousands of years. What the hack! I am sure there are prostitutes on the Paris streets. Just give the girls the money, damn it, you cheap shoe making, bronz fountainhead whiners!

The Grandpa would say: stop whining and give me the money, or else!

Shame on the people here who supports these auctions. Have you no conscience?!?