People of Pak Afghan border areas want peace in any way. Anger is valid, when bomb strike start against civilians. If US forces avoid these sort of strikes than people remove Taliban themselves from there territory…

The journalist calls the region 'lawless', and that shows some ignorance and disrespect already. Of course the tribes have their own laws, and the Pakistan government may have the idea that they should follow pakistan laws, but most likely these tribes were not informed about the date and place of the negotiations about those laws, let alone that they were involved in making them.
They're probably very wise people, who prefer to mind their own business on their own soil and by the way they greet the outsider, they tell him to do the same. Of course they see an enormous threat in the man from the US, since they live so different and they go so far away from their land to make war. But in the role of a visitor they will not refuse him.

So many people have been incorrectly targeted and killed by U.S. "smart" bombs, that their anger is justified. How would some backwoodsman from the Ozarks react in the same situation? Everytime innocent people are killed in accidental strikes or attacks based on wrong information, the U.S. military apolgizes and acts as though their hands are clean. Just like in 9/11, the reasons for the deaths don't define the act as one of terror, the results do. To these tribbal people, the U.S. forces are the terrorists. If your innocent child was blown away in the middle of the night by a bomb from an enemy unseen and unreachable, wouldn't you think the same?

These folks are tribal morons who treat their women like property and live on smuggling proceeds. They're not wise, they're primitive. Unfortunately, the same can be said of Pakistan's government. Al Qaida, being less stupid, takes advantage of this situation to make themselves a convenient home in a place where the twits in the ISI try to prevent the Americans from reaching them, but do nothing against them.

Thanks for the post Reza. Unfortunately individuals like Mr. Canard dont realize that these people are proud people. They had their own customs and laws that even 150 years of British rule could not change. As once described, the FATA region is an area where civilizations go to get destroyed. The US and Afghanistan are getting frustrated over their own shortcomings in Afghanistan and need Pakistan as a scapegoat. This scenario is all too familiar, the US turning its back towards their one time allies.

American genocidal occupation forces should leave Afghanistan and Iraq AT ONCE. Their presence is NOT DESIRED and has brought only DESTRUCTION and CARNAGE. American failed polices only increased the possibility of a new 911, this time, probably a nuclear or biological 911, and they will only be able to blame themselves for the consequences.
While Americans persist in keeping their opulent and pollutant lifestyles at the expense of the rest of the world this scenario is not likely to change.
My expectation, and hope, is that America will emerge much weaker and broke from this financial crisis created by themselves and dragged the world.
This is the synthesis of the American society: speculate, drag huge foreign capital to American investment funds and eventually burst rendering billions of foreign funds close to no value, where all this money has gone to?
America has done this bubble trick several times. This is the American way of life, stealing from the international community, creating poverty and militancy then using their very money to fund a BRUTAL army to kill those that do not accept such international robbery.
Fortunately, as announced, the days of "party" are coming to an end.

Characterizing people as lawless, tribal, moron, etc. serves no purpose and reflects badly on ourselves in the Western world. In arrogance we reveal our own tribal nature. Our overwhelming and willful ignorance of other peoples and cultures is what creates the problems in the first place. The U.S. only gave the vote to women in the 1st quarter of the twentieth century, and to blacks in the 1960's. Violence against women and children is still a major problem in the U.S. – in the news every day, including today.

Moron is genetic or birth trauma related. Ignorance is educational. How many people in the "tribal areas" could be educated for the cost of one "smart" bomb?

You don't even what anti american means. These guys were pissed off and wanted to vent. If you wanted to see anything anti- – he would have blown you away and thrown you to the dogs. Similar to the rwandan conflict.

He had too much respect for the power behind you – the AMERICAN POWER

I feel the concept of Kill for a Kill should be known to the Americians who basically have no idea whats happening outside america. Americians who treat their women as a symbol of sex who can take in anything provided she is paid well and watched by many. If we dont ask you to stop dont bother to comment on them(tribals), they have their own customs and way of life. if you kill them on wrong information using your smart bombs and then appologize then you better understand the concept of Kill for a Kill. You kill you get Killed.

Me being from peshawar pakistan i dsagree from mr donald canard dear sir when my relgon teaches me that the heaven is beneth my mothers feet and must respect and please her. so how can disrespect any women allthough we do not treat women like peace of meat and just a source to attractive advrtsement, which is carried out in the rest of the world. This is the type of attitude that s gettng no one any where, as a pakstanis we are very proude people and take pride in our people and land, anyway we did not come to exist by killing and bur ning the native population like americans did, the very existance of america s based on bloodshed and extinction of a peacfull people.
neverthe less i do think pakistan can do more and is doing more. as long as the fellow tribesmen are with the pakistan army and giving that vital info we cant go wrong.

As far as isi is concerned we exist because of its hard work and tireless sacrifice to protect from indian agression. after all if any one thinks U.S will protect pakstans intrest they are badly mistaken and pakistan has the right to protect its integrity and intrests jsut like intellegence doe in other country.
With attitude like mr donalds no wonder so many people arround the world hate the U.S.

Mr Sayah,

Perhaps, if it weren't always referred to as 'Pakistan’s lawless tribal region' by every Western journalist...

Perhaps, if Donald Duck (Canard means 'duck', but I suspect he knew that...) above and others like him would open their minds rather than proving that the West has an abundance of morons, unwise, primititive, stupid twits who don't hestitate to insult all Pakistanis, because of the actions of the few...

Perhaps, if like Anthony Davis, Rob Nuitjen, and Abrar Pasha, people thought about the living conditions of the people in question, and did not subhumanise them from the get-go, they wouldn't need to be so angry.

Mr Davis' point about the the backwoodsman from the Ozarks is very well-made. Some of the folk in the rural American Appalachians and Ozarks are clannish, belong more to their clans than to the States in which they live, they are not well-schooled (if at all). They scratch their livings out of the dirt under their feet, and what they can find. They carry guns and know how to use them.

Suppose a group of Farsi-speaking, heavily armed, different-looking, well-fed, literate, aggressive people in uniforms, with tanks and bombs, turned up in on their land. Wouldn't they shoot? Suppose organised-crime had tried to use their land as a base, and attracted mortar-fire in the dead of night, in return, how much would they want the criminals there. These people don't like outsiders.

The same is true of Waziristan, to such an extent, that the last time they were governed by anyone, other than their own tribal Elders, was under Alexander the Great. Centuries of rule by the Mughal Empire, and then by the British Raj, did not conquer them!

Nor has anyone ever conquered Afghanistan. The Afghanis are growing weary of the Western occupation, as your colleague, Nic Robertson, has demonstrated so well.

The so-called 'lawless Tribal region' has its laws! They are Tribal laws, They're older than the presence of Europeans in the Americas. They're as difficult to shift as the mountains of Waziristan. They are, to the people of those tribes, worth fighting, and dying for. These people are far from ignorant. They are patriots. They are defending the land that has been theirs, irrespective of artificial borders, conquests, or political changes, for over eight thousand years. If the people over the hill are their cousins by marriage, and they are... and 'over the hill' happens to be in 'Afghanistan', rather than in 'Pakistan', exactly how much do you think they care? How much should they care?

In their shoes (yes, they have shoes... the winters are harsh in those parts) I would feel the same way.

I am half North Indian. Pakistanis are my kinfolk. Waziris are my remote kinfolk. Afghanis are my kinfolk. My mother was born under the British Raj, when the whole Subcontinent was 'India'. I know how 'primitive', 'ignorant' etc. my people have been called, by Whites. I know how the treatment of women, in India, has been reviled by morons who know only what they've seen on a documentary or two. I know what they say about Iran - a lofty and noble culture, of great history and beauty. The Canards of this world would bomb Iran to slag.

Mr Sayah, you know better than to perpetuate cultural stereotypes. Shame on you.

Sincerely,

Ms Uma Devidatta MAR
Social Justice Activist, Cultural Anthropologist, Linguist, Feminist, etc.

Sick to tears of the phrase lawless tribal region. Talked to any Utes lately? I have done.

@ Ms Uma, sorry that I am not equal in mind with ur opinion. Its right to put some critics on the strategy on occupation in countries liek Afghanistan or Irak – but I can not totally follow the point of respect of tribal culture as equally one could adore the culture of long traditioned cannibals as well. Sorry to say that, from little austria. Th

It´s the same story everywhere. The world is not only, not even mainly, our western world. We have no respect for cultures, peoples, civilization which are different from us. When they happen to be also poorer we do everything to subjugate and humiiiate them not out of perversity, just ignorance. US politicians turn the ignorance of too many in the media, the missundertandings of "academics" and the greed of investors into public policies. Pefect recipe for disaster.

We ought to get out of ALL of these hostile environments and leave them to kill themselves. We don't need any ot them and should not support them with our dollars.

Tha t is very true, you need to understand Tribals people first before going after the Taliban.

There are some remote, lawless places in the world, like the journalist describes. It's not that they don't like you, they don't like anybody.... (same could be said for waiters in Paris or Brussels.) The fact that the journalist wasn't blown away means that they're not that hostile.

If the Taliban or Al Qaida are there, well, then it's up us to flush them out and kill them. The sooner the local tribes help, the sooner T and AlQ are gone, and the sooner the locals will be left in peace.

Quite simple really.

Its evident that the USA is the biggest terrorist entity in this history of mankind, and the whole world is fed up of these warts, so called americans.

There is a HUGE difference between people who riside in the 'backward' areas of the United States, like the Ozarks and Appalacia, and the tribespeople in Pakistan that we speak of. The main difference being, the people of the Ozarks are required to obey the laws of the United States (for better or worse) and if those laws are broken the United States has the power–and the will– to crack down and enforce them.
Sure, you hear about armed standoffs between some extremist and the government from time to time (although not usually in the Ozarks) but the rebel invariably comes out on the bottom. I think this is what is being referred to as 'lawlessness'. The fact that these tribes have not only the will but the power to stand up to the official government of the area their lands happen to reside in. Poor choice of wording, maybe, but the right sentiment. Just because the tribal laws are older than the governments laws in this case does not change the fact that technically they are not acting in accordance with the laws of the nation that claims to govern the area.

Everything said about Bajaur is agreed. The area is not controlled since the period of Alexander, the Great. It is this lawlessness and the nature of these tribals that is being exploited by the Taliban and Bin laden's terror group. The tribals have become victims of collateral damage and it is inevitable

This is an area of the world that we can't when though bombs. Education is the only key to success. As an American I spent last month backpacking around Pakistan, meeting the people and experiencing the most friendly hospitality in the world. What did I come away with? The realization that if we spent one eighth of the money we spend on bombs, on building schools we would have exponentially more success.

US should strike if there are intelligence reports that conform the presence of Islamic militants who try to harm innocent citizens. US has every right to strike any part of this world to keep it safe from these rouge elements. Islam is a religion of peace but of the late it became synonyms with militancy

TO SCOTT

Congratulations for CNN publishing your comment critical of the United States foreign police, I and the majority of the public opinion on this planet agrees with your comment.

On the other hand, the "leaders of the free world", "champions of free speech" have censored my contribution and it is still "awaiting moderation", in fact I doubt they will publish this one!

brilliant post uma.

The United states is NOT a terrorist organization, we do not kill our own people or kill other people for no reason, overall there is a goal, to defeat and eliminate terrorism, which is displayed by Al-qaeda, taliban, and other resistant forces. We the United states need to watch out for our security and the security of the world. To some it may seem that we are terrorist because we are in their country, but you have to look at the big picture. which is to eliminate terrorism and terrorist organizations, for the safety of the world, civilians in iraq, afghanistan, pakistan, etc etc. These organizations are our current day's greatest threat, not just to the United states, but to humanity. They must be stopped, and we are doing everything in our power to do so. Coversating did not work, Confrontation is the current action that is being taken. We the United States are always being criticized because of our involvement, but if we do not get involved, then who will? who will step up and fight for freedom? if we dont get involved then we are criticized for not doing anything. Everyone needs to stop criticizing the US, we are fighting for our interest, yes, but also for your freedom as well.

Yawn. Participated in any honor killings lately, thrown any acid, had a female relative raped based on an adjudication by a Pakistani tribal court ? You float your garbage barge of pious socially fashionable political correctnesses about the mysteries of prerational societies and expect not only silence from the world but recognition. Unfortunately, the mediocrity of the medieval value structures at issue shines through, and no amount of enthusiasm for naturalist mysteries can obscure the smell. A little healthy objectivism and rationalism of the kind worked towards by the West for the last 500 years would help you out, just as it would be a curative for our own faith-based imbeciles. Allahu akbar, only not in the mawkish way you understand it.

wow,

I think its hilarious to be lectured by Ms Uma -ists from the UK about how she knows more about conditions on the ground than Reza. My heritage is vaguely Italian, I have the genes to prove it. Does that give me the right to lecture the world about how the people in Naples living in there own filth is part of the culture and should be preserved at all costs? (and by the way everyone from the west who wants to steal MY garbage deserves what they get)

SCOTT, WHEN THE U.S. IS CALLED TO BANKROLL THE DEFENSE OF A PARTICULAR TERRITORY (EUROPE) FOR 70 YEARS IT'S PRETTY HILARIOUS WHEN SAID PEOPLE COMPLAIN ABOUT THE METHODS. DON'T WORRY, WITH ECONOMY AS IS EUROPE CAN FINALLY START DEFENDING ITSELF.

Sorry but, I'll have to agree fully with Donald here.

The most influential man in history, the most widely read book and still, we think we're better than our neighbor. The men and women in Pakistan are no more than neighbors down the street, only difference is we've built walls to say we're more important. Jesus offered a third way, to love you enemies and pray for those who persecute you. Whether you're a follower of Jesus or not, I believe that humbling ourselves though it will have national impact, will bring about more reconciliation than any macho man fight ever can.

AS if killings and murders dont happen in the west i've seen worst crimes then those mr donald is mentioning that he has no ground reality to.
it doesnt take much of search to find the uglyness of western socity fathers raping their childrens people being attacked because of the clour of their skin childrens sexually abused , kids kept in dungeons and sexually exploited not just in europe but aloso n america so look carefully at your own kind mr donald before ponting fingures at other people.

What does open-minded mean? To many, it means accepting everything done by one culture (such as Pakistan) and rejecting all done by another (such as US). Should this be so, or should it mean judging all peoples and all cultures by similar standards? Is the torture and rape of a young woman as a punishment for blasphemy a quaint custom if it occurs in certain corners of the earth, while a dislike of abortion is considered dangerous religious fundamentalism worthy of ridicule in another part of the world? Ask yourself, how many Pakistanis believe in evolution? Does that make them ignorant? Of course not, only Americans who don't believe in evolution are ignorant.

This is the problem: somehow it has been decided that everything done by one culture is OK and everything done by another (USA) is wrong. Therefore, it is not even worth debating any issue, we always know who is wrong or right. The only issue to debate WHY the USA is wrong and why any ritualized killings or death squads or bombings elsewhere is either OK or is the fault of the US. This does not help the girl accused and convicted of blasphemy one bit, but it does help her rapists and executioners. Only once we start trying to actually help the girl is there any hope.

Donald, you fail to realise that there are many who view Western practices as barbaric and please do not bring up genocide (Holocaust, Indian reservations, Apartheid, etc.). The failure to recognise the existence and validity of other cultural practices is very Eurocentric.

Ms. Devidatta, you accuse the West of judging all the Pakistanis by the actions of the few, and yet you yourself have no problem conducting yourself similiarly in judging the multitude of "western" civilizations.

No one State, people, or culture has a monopoly on nobility or righteousness, but before you lament the media's ostensive misrepresentation as lawless the lands you hold dear, I bid you to note that the west has endured decades of being characterized disparagingly (with commensurate treatment and consideration) as godless, outsiders, and infidels. We have a president in Iran who mocks our financial hardship, finances groups in Iraq to sow destruction as the country claws its way up to stablity and democracy.

War is ugly, and collateral damage is inevitable. People like you who entertain the tired conceit that fault lies disproportionately on one side or other are neither constructive nor truthful. The U.S. and allied nations have been in Afghanistan for years, and Taliban activity is in resurgence. If the tribal areas have been trying to drive the Taliban away, they have not been doing a good job of it.

donal canard,what say u to your custons of incest and child sex.It is rampant in your society. What kind of word would you like to use for suc a society? Primitive? Advanced?or morally corrupt? Just sort out the eveils in your society before you try to address any other societies problems. I have lived in the US and I know your society and I speak from first hand knowledge. Have you ever spent any time in the tribal areas? Shame on ignorant folks like you. By the way how do you treat your family? Are your children safe?

Ms Uma,

You have analysed it very well. But i think you forgot to mention that they don't tolerate any other religion or culture. That is they are fundamentalists as well. Its easy being in a comfortable environment and empathising with all kinds of orldly issues.

Mr. Reza Sayah:

Your encounter with one single individual can at best be considered remote anecdotal evidence and is inadequate to make sweeping generalizations. As a journalist it is vital to be more objective in the acquisition of accurate newsworthy information for dissemination to the public.

The US media is undoubtedly unwelcome in this remote as it serves as a safe haven for Taliban and other terrorists who routinely cross the border to kill US/NATO forces. The fact that the Pakistan Military facilitated your access, exposure and provided inputs, compromises the credibility of your report. The Pakistan military is adept at manipulating western media and giving it just what is required to produce a benign outcome, absolving both the Pak Military and the tribals who are both deeply involved in harboring and launching the Taliban fighters, according to recently published US Govt. reports.

What incentive do the tribals have to suddenly switch sides after having stood by their Taliban and Mujahedeen brothers since the fall of the soviets?

Thanks to the reporter for taking risks to expand the understanding of his readers. Mr. Canard, whatever value there may be in your thoughts and perceptions is obscured and countervailed by your overwrought, even tribal vehemence. To the poster, bd, who ascribes superhuman powers to Americans abroad in unfriendly areas of the world while working to bring information and insight to the rest of us, I suggest a recollection of Daniel Pearle's fate. To the both of you, and to anyone else, I commend Defense Sec. Gates' address on 9/29/08 to The National Defense University. It can be found on C-SPAN. Very level headed and forward thinking by someone charged with acting in America's interest on the world stage. Carrying the great responsibility of leading the world's finest and most powerful military, Sec. Gates (a reasoning and non-idealogical man) embodies the best of the Occidental Enlightenment. This is something altogether different from mere braggadocio about the eminent gifts of reason, law, scientific method, art and democratic politics that our Western forbearers have bequeathed to us. Go ahead, pull my finger. ;-)

Donald Canard – Right on!

Has anyone thought to maybe respect these tribal folks, their culture, their family values. The tribal leaders should be invited to sit down and everyone then needs to figure out a peace solution. The government is destroying Pakistan, it's culture, it's beautiful people. It's time the Pakistani government actually focused on their own country and their own citizens including the tribal areas. For US, there are so many different ways to solve this Taliban issue in Waziristan than to just go in and start bombing. Please someone have enough common sense to maybe have talks with the tribal folks before you start to bomb them and piss them off even more. I understand that the US is not liked in this region much but i don't think it helps to attack someone when they are already mad at you.

@omer respect is allways good thing. But I just dont respect abuse in some way of civilisational standards (and dont ask e now what it means). Did Afghanistan have had tribal statesmen all before? No, so where is the once existing civilisation gone. Tribal leaders, Im sorry, allways means deduction of common law, reduction of unified structures – of equal justice. Ure right in ur proposal of more consideration of tribal (cultural!) adequate heritage, that is never bad (Im no specialst of asian countries). If the suggestion is "talks" – its never bad

Mr. Donald Canard,

You have got to be kidding me with the whole "women are treated like property" in Pakistan speech. Your comment is not even remotely relavant. You want to talk about women being treated like "property", just go to San Fernando Valley, CA...also known and the Porn Capital of the WORLD. Talk about disrespect of women...

Mr Canard, want to ask questions, well here are a few for you:
1. Been to Pakistan lately?
2. Ever spoken to a Pakistani female either born/raised in the US or Pakistan about this topic?
3. Do you only believe what you hear on the news?
4. Been to a bar recently? Gotten drunk recently? "banged" any girls recently? And lastly – have you spread your sperm all over their faces/stomach/back? Or do you only watch that sort of stuff after hours?

American Statistics: (simply googled)

In the United States, 1.3 women are raped every minute. That results in 78 rapes each hour, 1872 rapes each day, 56160 rapes ech month and 683,280 rapes each year.

The United States has the world's highest rape rate of the countries that publish such statistics. It's 4 times higher than Germany, 13 times higher than England, and 20 times higher than Japan.

1 in 7 women will be raped by her husband.

83% of rape cases are ages 24 or under.

1 in 4 college women have either been raped or suffered attempted rape.

1 in 12 males students surveyed had commited acts that met the legal definition of rape. Furthermore, 84% of the men who had commited such acts said what they had done was definitely not rape.
75% of male students and 55% of female students involved in acquintance rape had been drinking or using drugs.

Only 16% of rapes are ever reported to the police.

Only 6% of rapists will ever spend a day in jail.

Roughly 33% of girls and 14% of boys are molested before the age of 18, according to the U.S. Justice Department. Nearly 2/3 of all sexual assaults reported involved minors and roughly 1/3 involved children under the age of 12.

in order to defeat the taliban in pak three things are needed.
1 very good intel live feeds to track down suspected militants also very reliable informants
2 A devide and conquer strategy turn as many people in the tribal areas against taliban and aqi also a one time offer to the tribal from the usa give up omar and osama and his key leadership and the war on terror will be over . Snatch and grab teams would be on site to get the leadership fast and at minimum risk to personel.
3 adopt a better understanding threw civilian reps of the us to end the israel aggresion against the people of palestine end the palestine suffering the war with the muslims will end as well

:Quote: Has anyone thought to maybe respect these tribal folks, their culture, their family values. The tribal leaders should be invited to sit down and everyone then needs to figure out a peace solution. :Quote:

If you run terrorist camps like local high schools and export terrorists to other countries, they are bound to give you a nice pounding..

Other countries are not soft like India so that you could get away with such misadventure.

If you raise and feed a snake, you will get a beating from the neighbors along with the snake.. and ofcourse the snake will kill you .

Pakistani Female in the U.S of course you find all these stats on U.S. crime but what about crime in the middle east 90% of it isn't reported, there is crime everywhere in the world even here in Canada. I think the US is doing there best and people need to give them a brake, many foreign nations are suffering causaulties to help other countries have basic freedoms (a prime example in Afganistan barber shops, and beauty parlors were banned). I personally don't believe violence is the answer to terrorism it just breeds more extremists but the lines of communication have long since been cut and those extremists don't want to sit and talk about a solution. If you wan't the US out of your country just sit back and wait, if there is no need for them to be there they will leave, there are greater threats on the horizon from other countries for the U.S. (Russia, Venezuela, North Korea, Syria) don't you think they'd like to have use of their full army.

The United States aren't terrorists and people who believe so have some serious issues that need addressing (counselling) with that being said I understand totally why some countries dislike the US, who wants someone occupy their country by force. But if people who represent a serious threat to world peace (Iran and North Korea, Syria and yes even Pakistan if the goverment collapses) are allowed to operate unchecked, occupation wouldn't be your problem the aftermath of worldwide Nuclear weapon strikes will be. I believe Iran is seeking Nuclear technology for peaceful purposes like I believe O.J. Simpson was innocent both times, and the fact the rest of the world is sitting back and just watching makes me sick to my stomach. Syria had a "secret" Nuclear reactor that Israel blew up earlier in the year. What was that for? And Pakistan almost has as many nukes as the United States but where the US has an unstable economy Pakistan has an unstable goverment and is a breeding ground for insurgency.

In closing I really enjoy reading these comments and I try to respect everyone's opinon but it is sad when people say shame on others for their opinon. That's the type of backward-ass thinking that plagues humanity. The people of the world in general are all equal in my mind and decent people it's just the people who have their fingers on the buttons of the nukes and the those that spread extremism that we all as humans have to worry about. We shouldn't let the borders of our countries separate us all because we all share the same planet.

Thanks for listening
J. Walker
***A proud Canadian***

Did you read A Pakistani Female's response to you, Mr. Donald Canard? She is not happy with you, he, he. By the way, didn't she sound much literal than you? Poor Donald, I guess some of the rednecks learn less than the others. Have you minded your own business lately? Can you borrow money to buy a car, Ford Escort, like the one your father drove? You know, Paulson said he did not have any to lend to you and the Cogress does not want to write more I-Owe-You.

@Ms. PFA

The fact that you are in America points to you being highly privileged and probably sheltered from the day to day of the tribal areas. If not why are you not living in the FATA's if they offer a comparable standard of living that is more aligned with your view of the world?

Why are these territories even considered part of Pakistan? From my western viewpoint it doesn't appear that they get anything from the Pakistani government (though its arguable that NO ONE has gotten a thing in Pakistan from that bunch except a few swift military defeats) and the tribes seem to despise any outside influence. Is there even a common cultural thread between the FATA's and the rest of the country? If they export hate and don't pay taxes what's the point? Is Pakistan so neurotic about its borders that it can't see that it's being used as an umbrella by the Taliban and friends?

As for woman's rights, there are misogynists everywhere the only difference I see between nations is in the law. While I'm not sure of Pakistani law concerning prosecuting rapists and its effectiveness I would guess that the US isn't terribly lagging. Do you get a get out of jail free card for not even trying to publish your stats? Also, can you report the statistics for Pakistan as well? Please factor in the sigma/consequence associated with reporting and its effect on the reporting rate.

Come on guys! The US and Pakistan need to take this one easy. What the people of the tribal regions, such as Waziristan and Bajaur Agency, need are massive developmental projects. As a super power since the 1980s, what has America done for these people? Or for that matter, what have the European powers contributed to this region? On television, one can see these people do not have the luxury of using computers, laptops, mobile phones. Neither are they given opportunities to send their children for higher education to established universities around the world.

If anything, the tribes have been kept to themselves within their own circles of law and religion. Maybe this is a good time for these people to awaken to the international world and demand more development, such as roads, schools, hospitals, industry, and projects.

My prediction is that the tribes will join hands with the PK Army and drive the terrorists out of the region for good! However, this will come if the US and PK Gov. show them the advantages of living a better life.

Cheers all.

Why doesn't the American media just leave Pakistan alone. America has its own problems, social and economic. The U.S. is spending 10 billion dollars a month on Iraq, just to make itself look good to the rest of the world. America has been defeated on all fronts by the Islamic Fighters, it should show humility and bow out. Pakistani tribal people are the finest people on earth. They are traditional, loyal, uncorrupted, live in mud huts that have survived the test of times for centuries, and have hurt no one. Leave these folks alone, and stop spreading hate and terror in all of South Asia.

Since sex, or lack of access to it, is so central to this situation, I'll cover that topic first. In the West, people who commit the crimes described are isolated from society and treated as criminals. In Pakistan, government officials proclaim that they will always support as traditions the behaviors which occur there – the honor killings, the forced marriages, the wife beating, the rapes required by tribal courts, and all the sorry rest.

You make my point for me though – I was going to post that the central question facing all societies is whether they gain more advantage by subordinating the inherent rights of the individual to the perceived immediate needs of the group, or instead guaranteeing the inherent rights of the individual and allowing all to realize their full potential and by doing so contribute to the greater good. "All" here includes women, and "rights" here include life, liberty, the pursuit of happiness, and also spreading sperm on a friend, or having it swallowed. Or watching that on TV. Folks, you don't need to go to Paradise to find houris, or to be one. Enjoy.

(I note the sad appearance of the current brood of "feminists" who seem above all to suffer from conflicted and immature sexuality – if you would spend less time in literary criticism class and more time with your vibrator you'd be healthier. Your father still loves you, but you need to stop looking for a replacement for him.)

The West does not have a lock on morality, current events at Abu Ghraib and on Wall Street highlight that. And the same vermin who made the west rich by exploiting the rest of the world for 350 years are the prime suspects in these latest situations as well.

Nevertheless – if we choose to believe that there are certain fundamental absolutes – and I suggest that the notions of inherent (it used to be called God-given) rights are a good start – then it's not good enough to whine that because someone else didn't respect them, we don't need to either. So then if we conclude that they're important, maybe more important than anything else, then we need to ask whether our society is structured to support them, or suppress them. If the answer is that it suppresses them, then we need to ask what benefit comes to society from that.

For example, in the sexual realm, if everyone were heaven forbid to have sex whenever they wanted, with whomever decided to have sex with them, without asking anyone's permission (i.e. that sexual behavior were a personal activity rather than a social activity, imagine that) what harm would come to society ? Would families be destroyed ? Would the sun stop crossing the sky ? Would George Bush's head explode ? Or your local mullah's ? Inshallah.

Here's a truly subversive thought – that control of the availability of sexuality (and in fact making it an artificially scarce resource) is a tool by which humans of both sexes are forced into contrived living structures which serve to make them efficient economic producers. Sex is turned into a desired but unavailable quantity, which can only be acquired by entering into what is a social relationship, and frequently a contractual economic one, which people are forced to stay in via social norming and that contrived scarcity, and in which they are expected above all to produce wealth of some kind. Further, the social norming involved is an aspect of larger social structures which cause individuals to subordinate their freedom to the wishes of the group.

All this is a holdover from the social organization of higher mammals, as of course are tribes to begin with – does your set of monkeys have more bananas, or do the ones in the woods over that hill ? So the West poses a choice – does the divine spark, which God, or Allah, or Creation, or whatever, give man (and that includes men and women) exclusively, give humanity the ability to rise above that scrabbling for scraps in the dirt ? Of beating the other guy over the head to keep him from reminding you he has something you don't (and maybe taking it from him instead of working for it yourself) ?

Again, saying that the West has not been successful in living according to these principals isn't good enough as an answer – the failure of humans to live up to principles doesn't invalidate them. The West does have an advantage here though – it has raised the question, and over the last few centuries, people have given their lives in their service. Some societies don't even know the question exists, or vigorously proclaims that the opposite choice is desirable.

I'm sure there will be some responses to the effect that I'm naive, or that the freedom of the west makes a horrible cold place, or that I can only afford a Ford Escort (I drove one for 6 years, excellent car – did you know that ?) or that proper Pakistani girls don't like me because I watch the products of the San Fernando Valley (she was remarkably well-informed as to their content – want to come over for a video party ?). Who cares ? My first guess has to be that such respondents are part of the problem we're discussing here. On the other hand, if someone somewhere in a place where basic freedoms aren't something you simply expect, is reminded that they're not alone, then all the sound and fury here has been useful.

Oh! by the way, we should all THANK, Reza Sayah of CNN for doing a fantastic job of reporting from Pakistan.

Reza, im a great fan of yours, i think im around your age. In my eyes, you are NO. 1, CNN news reporter.

Great Job Reza!!!

As a person from Africa, neutarl on the US/Pakistani issue, to me it's very clear that the USA can never respect other people's cultures, beliefs and laws. One just needs to look back at how the country began. What is the state of the native americans today? Then can we expect the USA to treat other peoples well?

On the issue of the wars fought in the name of terror....9/11 was a terrible thing and so much has been said about the deaths from that day. What I don't get though is why has little been said about the innocent civillians killed in the wars? IAre their lives of little substance because they are not western? Isn't terrorism, the killing of innocent people?

I have always sympathised with the people of the middle east because i do not believe that those folks woke up one day and thought, "we really don't like the west, let's hurt them" If America and other countries are concerned about world peace, should be concerned about the roots of terror first?

You would think that at this day and age, world leaders would learn from history. Europeans were in a similar position when then decided to colonise the world. Had they not done in to satisfy their greed, this world would perhaps be a better one for all. They had expertise that might have improved people's lives in places like Africa instead of robbing them and treating them inhumanly. America is a powerful nation but in my opinion, not using that power to the greater good of humanity....at least not like we are told.

Perhaps what these "tribal morons" have learned from history. Africa, didn't stand to their values and beliefs and look at where Africa is today. People are starving and there is greed and crime because the foundations of African values were/are distroyed by the western values. I wish our forefathers had fought for who they are like the people of the middle east are doing.

The US and the Taliban should grow Afghan-Pak weed and sell it to rich LA and New York kids

I have a question did Palin ever talk with McCain about what he has done and what he stands for? Its seems like she does not know much about what he does and did so far....

One has to question, is it just the incursion into Pakistan, or is it also the history of US support initially for the Taliban, via funding, weapons and support through the Pakistani military and ISI. We helped support the Taliban, and finally came to our senses when we realized just how diametrically opposed the Taliban was towards the US and its local allies. We did not know who our allies really were until well into the game. Do we know now? I doubt it, and I doubt this reporter does either.

I feel Gov. Palin distroyed Senator Biden. He was like watching paint dry. The same old Washington language. She came off as sincere, inteligent, connected to the American family, and was not ashamed to look at us in the camera. We don't have to worry about her courage and leadership ability. "Go get'em Sarah!"

Fred Grady
Montgomery, Alabama

Bob Abell: USA gave blacks the right to vote a lot sooner then that. Although I will agree that there were attempts to get around that and were successful at doing just that but as a nation they were giving the right to vote before females were.

As soon as the ISI stops supporting Taliban (Both Afghani and Paki Taliban) than the US might stop using drones to destroy them.

The British could not control these tribal areas in Imperial times, so what are the chances the Pakistan Army can bring the law of the nation to these tribal regions? Yeah, zero. These Pashtun tribesmen will always be loyal to their Taliban ethnic brothers, who share their same Islamist ideology and, than to the Pakistani government or the West. So I say keep these incursions up and expand them to include more special forces ground operations, if this makes the tribesmen angry then so be it, they are our enemies, it shows we are doing our job.

If the US doesn't do anything, the world complains. If we do something, they complain. If these tribes are uniting with Pak Army, let them go after the Taliban on their own turf. Just don't take forever in doing so. How can you not know where the Taliban are hiding if its your own backyard? And as far as areas of the worlds being "Tribal". I don't agree that they're backwoods or ignorant. But I do agree that they hate everyone thats not their own. I've been to many countries though Asia, Africa, and the Middle East and have seen how outsiders are viewed.

All in all, militant muslims ruin everything for true peaceful muslims.

I am just wondering on the purpose of US govenment to other soils, If they are killing each other and make wars in their own soils why are they bother? Why do they sacrifice the life of innocent american soldiers just for another country?

Being a soldier it is a foolishness to die for the sake of other people not from the own country. Beside the death of a soldier will not bring honor to him .

If a pakistani taliban kills a pakistani or an agfhan taliban kills an agfhan, let them do. Why put an american solder between them? This soldier has parents or maybe wife and kids that love him, only to be killed by other nationalities. A death that will not bring honor to his family from their people or government instead an anti-american outrage.

Let them paint their own canvass.

You know, there's usually more to a culture than wife-beating, ritual killings, forced marriages, and other nasties (we espouse Greek and Roman culture for their virtues, yet in those societies women actually WERE property in most cases, pedophilia was rampant, and slavery was legal). The tribal Pakistanis are angry because we're marginalizing their culture and, yes, invading what they perceive is their territory. As wrong as some of their practices may be, eradicating a culture or changing one through force is ineffective and immoral, yet that's pretty much how the U.S. works when it "defends freedom."

Donald Canard, your statements probably would have garnered a better reaction had you explained it all first rather than slinging names and taking an arrogant, self-righteous tone in regards to their culture. One could argue that a culture in which the highest goal is to gather large stacks of green paper with dead presidents on them is more "primitive" than that of a culture that still uses the barter system.

Honestly, if this country were serious about promoting freedom and liberty, then it would go about it with education, foreign aid, and a compassionate ear, not bombs, propaganda, and childish political maneuvers.

It will be a sad day when the US can no longer support the spread of liberal democracy around the world. Do our european friends have the resolve and the strength to fight muslim extremeism and counter chinas expansion on their own? Probably not. Is it gonna be Sharia, Russian style organized crime run oligarchies, or chinese style oppressive bastard capitalism for everyone but the US, Canada, and Western Europe? If you are truly interested in human rights the last thing you should want is a weakened America.

For Mr ED..

"to me it’s very clear that the USA can never respect other people’s cultures, beliefs and laws"

Quite right, but on the other hand, no other country respects the people of the USA culture, beliefs and laws!

To Donald

Thanks.

Of course the West has done some terrible things, obviously, most countries on this planet have done terrible things. I think the U.S. should reach out to Pakistan and not get in there causing a fight. But to the comment that compares U.S. sexual violence with Pakistani sexual violence....ARE YOU INSANE?

How can you honestly, as a woman, not recognize the level of mistreatment and inequality towards females in the Middle East and Pakistan? That's appalling. It's one thing to be a Pakistani American and defend your people's home, but it's another to act like the Middle East is not the breeding ground for female inequality.

The U.S. government has to stop crossing into Pakistan, because that is what's breeding this animosity. We need to be more supportive of them and focus on what we're in right now, let Pakistan deal with these problems, because they clearly do not want our help...at least militarily.

To the Pakistani Female in America: if the USA is THAT bad, what the heck are you doing here? Go back to Pakistan at the earliest, lest you become a statistic yourself.

Ideally Pakistan will exercise sovereignty over these areas of Pakistan and there will be no more need for U.S. attacks against terrorist bases there. It became the policy of the U.S. after September 11 to go after terrorists and terrorist groups such as those who attacked us, as well as those who aid, harbor, and support them. It is unacceptable to me to allow those who murdered 3000 of my fellow citizens safe haven such that they are free to plan and execute the murder of more of my citizens. They have a proven track record in this regard and people are generally creatures of habit. I am all in favor of using military force, all that is necessary to go after this group of terrorists where they have been allowed a safe haven. If it means war then I will fight. I have no tolerance left for those who support murderers while condemning those who would fight against those same murderers. If you sympathize with and support al quaeda and allow them to live amongst you then you have made yourself my enemy. Obfuscating this by trying to contrast 'western' and 'islamic' values is a waste of time, murder of my citizens is not justifiable to me under any circumstances and must be met with force.

I wounder what would happen in the middle east. If osuma bin what ever was to be handed over. humm maybe pace!

Oh and another thing, Pakistan is the third worst when it comes to gender inequality, surpassed only by Egypt and Turkey. So don't compare gender inequality in the U.S. with Pakistan and claim women here don't are worse off. That's an amazingly terrible thing to say.
http://www.aneki.com/worst_gender_equality.html

The USA has 306 million people, obviously rape and sexual violence will be higher compared to the United Kingdom (61 million people) or Germany (82 million). And a third point, Pakistan wouldn't publish these stats...that says alot. I am South Asian myself, and have seen how bad gender inequality is in countries like Pakistan and India.