August 27, 2008
Posted: 905 GMT

BANGKOK, Thailand - If this were any other country, I'd say I'd just witnessed a revolution. But this is Thailand, and things aren't quite as they seem.

Protestors gather inside the compound of Thailand's Government House on Tuesday in Bangkok.
Protestors gather inside the compound of Thailand's Government House on Tuesday in Bangkok.

The normal check-list of the overthrow of a government seems to have been fulfilled.

Tens of thousands of protesters? Check. Occupying state run TV station? Check. Climbing over the railings of the Prime Minister's office and staging a mass sit-in? Check. Major roads blocked? Check.

But despite all the turmoil in Bangkok, it's still far from clear whether the People's Alliance for Democracy really have the momentum and numbers to oust the government.

The truth is they are well supported among the middle-class and traditional elite of Bangkok, but go outside the city to the countryside, especially the north-east and many hate the PAD.

The PAD wants the overthrow of Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej. Samak is the self-proclaimed proxy for ousted billionaire Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra. I asked Samak once whether that was true once and he snapped back "What's wrong with that?".

And that's the problem. Many of the same people who managed to get Thaksin kicked out after months of mass protests, which culminated in a military coup in 2006, are now demanding that Samak goes as well.

They feel cheated that having got rid of one leader who they say was corrupt and on the make, they've been saddled with another.

Of course both Samak and Thaksin strenuously deny they have done anything wrong, but the fact that Thaksin and his wife have been indicted on multiple corruption charges and have jumped bail to Britain hasn't exactly helped his cause.

No charges have been filed against Samak, but his association with Thaksin, a man effectively on the run, is tainting his entire administration, which is being branded as a Thaksin puppet government by the PAD.

But as I sweated my way through another PAD rally last night in the searing tropical sauna of Bangkok, I tried to find out who all the protesters would have Samak replaced with.

The answers seemed muddled and vague. As they munched on spicy Thai snacks, (no political movement can function here without seriously good fast food!), they told me they know they want to get rid of Samak, Thaksin and all their cronies, but the problem is they don't seem to know what will happen when they do.

The leader of the PAD Sondhi Limthongkul has told me that the entire political system needs to be changed, and says that perhaps Thailand isn't ready for full democracy, because of the endemic corruption. So is it the People's Alliance for Democracy or the People Against Democracy?

It must be remembered that Thaksin won two landslide elections, and a third which wasn't contested by the opposition. Samak's party also won the last election in December, albeit by a narrower margin, but made their allegiance to Thaksin clear. The PAD's argument is that the votes were bought and the system is corrupt, hence the current deadlock.

What's critical now in all this is how the Royal Thai army will react. They staged the coup that got rid of Thaksin, but it seems incredible that they would stage yet another coup to get rid of another democratically elected leader.

The fundamental problem with the current stand-off is that a powerful minority in Bangkok doesn't agree with the government that the vast majority outside Bangkok have elected.

Putting claims of vote-rigging aside, Thaksin and therefore Samak to a lesser degree, are both hugely popular. Until the PAD can offer an alternative which rivals that popularity, overthrowing another government would seem only to undermine the dysfunctional democracy here.

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HellNo!   August 27th, 2008 1017 GMT

It is truly disappointing to hear that the proxy Thai government still standing. It must have been an everlasting curse on the Thai people never to have a sound and corruption-free government. Well, if you have any true knowledge of Thailand at all, you would definitely know that Thai democracy can be bought with a few dollars. So do Thaksin and his clans, with all the wealth that he has got from the country (just or not), there is no doubt he still has got an upper hand while in the run. The only reliable working system in Thailand is the judicial system. We Thai, have absolute faith in that, not the police department .

I couldn't agree more with Khun Sonthi regarding the full democracy issue in Thailand ( when votes buying is so common and well accepted by rural people). Please open up, and a ccept Thailand for what it is, you don't feed solid food to babies when they are not ready, do you?

DJK   August 27th, 2008 1023 GMT

Taksin and his Thai Rak Thai party did in fact do a lot of good things for the country, especially for those living in the rural areas. However, those same people who support Taksin have no understanding of the murky business dealings that Taksin and Co. were involved in, some of which have or could have caused serious harm to Thailand, and which ultimately led to his ouster. Taksin has boatloads of money now. He could easily present a public apology to the Thai people, give some of his money back to the Government as a tax settlement, and things would calm down considerably. He could probably then even run for election again.

Mekhong Kurt   August 27th, 2008 1027 GMT

I have lived in Bangkok for more than 14 years - if in a different part of the city than where the demonstrations are occurring. I'd say this analysis is pretty much spot-on.

Paul Richards   August 27th, 2008 1034 GMT

Nothing in Thailand is ever as it seems, from their women to their government. It is, and will forever be, a who you know political fracas, and the people with money and influence always win. This has gone on through ancient history, recent memory, and to the present. The only thing Thais have going for them is the Royal Family. The problem there lies with the passing of the King. Another upheaval to overcome. I wish them the best. Plus their spicy snack foods are delicious.

ND_ASEAN   August 27th, 2008 1047 GMT

There are some similarities of this to the situation in the Philippines when People Power 2 replaced a democratically elected leader by a protest of several thousand people from the metro city. Every knows that the rural folks still supported the democratic leader Joseph Estrada due to his populist policies
I hail from the largest democracy in the world and we have corrupt leaders to match (even exceed) those in Thailand. Protests are fine but democratic governments cant change on street protests by a minority of the country's population. The best way to tackle this is to have this minority generate mass support at the country side and slowly effect this change.
Street protests are short cuts which can be used once but not all the time – if you want to change things go to the country side and create a revolution which generates that mass support and then win the election. Thats the democratic way

Young   August 27th, 2008 1055 GMT

Sounds like incredicle but I strongly insist that money actually can buy evertyhing here even for votes. Un-educated people, especially from North-eastern areas, get hired to vote for a certain party and insanely, they always follow with unrational senses. That 's how Thaksin's party and his under-controlled party including Samak won two consecutive landslide. Those are what really happenned here and as a Thai, it's totally painful as I can't describe in words. By the way, I totally agree with this article. The PAD just committed a really wrong move this time but I hope they will become the winner at last. I rather have this current goverment overthrown without any reasonable plans ahead than having them corrupt daily even for another day.

Emre   August 27th, 2008 1056 GMT

i just say; "long live the King"

Asiantom   August 27th, 2008 1058 GMT

The PAD do not realize what they are doing is hurting the ecocomy and the poor Thais. They are clueless on who will replace Samak if he ever ousted. This country will be worst once the King is gone.

Regular Thai guy   August 27th, 2008 1103 GMT

I just wonder if there's a huge protest against the government from the people in your country, will your President or Prime Minister continue working and act like there's no groud for the protesting?

Samak is pure shameless, and always lies without remorse.

For example, if you ask him about the military coup in 1973, he now only said that there was only 1 guy killed by accident. But in fact, he is the guy who confirmed to Thai people in France that there were ten or more people killed in the a military coup during 1973, as recorded in the book published on his speaking. This is because he wants to take no responsibility in that killing, because he was one of the government representatives during that time.

Thai people and PAD are protesting to Samak and his government for a good cause.

Sadly that Samak is too shamelss to hear the people's voices, and accept his wrong doing & mis-managment in the current government.

With such shameless PM, PAD surely defeats because they are asking for a conscience from a guy who possesses none.

Khlongwater   August 27th, 2008 1108 GMT

It's sad. Having lived and worked through out the Kingdom for the last decade in various positions at NGOs, media outlets and the government itself to realize that most Thais feel the only benefit they get from their government is the 200-500 Baht (8-18$) plus a box lunch that they get for their vote. Taksin will return to run (or whatever you want to call it) this country. He will be the new Suharto – as soon as his hair goes white and the current opposition leaders become too old or die off – he will ride a wave of nostalgia and populous policies right into the top spot. All will be forgotten or forgiven. Politics is viewed here as a 'get what you can for you and yours' occupation. There is nothing socially minded about being in office unless you count the parties that one must attend.

Verapat   August 27th, 2008 1108 GMT

Thai people are kind, and we love peace. The majority citizens are being branded by the PAD as corrpted, vote-buying people, yet we remain tolerant.

The PAD should run the campaign outside Bangkok and change the outcome of the next election instead of locking themselves in at the government house, that would be a less dysfunctional democracy.

Once there is less money is make in the market, we will soon see the new elites of Bangkok on the move.

Noon   August 27th, 2008 1110 GMT

For me, I want them to stop because they put most of us in constant fear. I disagree with many things Mr Taksin's done but PAD method is also unacceptable. Protest like this needs a huge funds and there are many other ways for the money to be better spent.

If Thai government response to them (PAD),what would happen if they are upset with something else in the future? Just group together and protest until they get what they want again and again?

Khlongwater   August 27th, 2008 1113 GMT

And besides... By owning and EPL team, Taksin has guaranteed that he will remain in the media and in a good light too. By being accepted by England, people here will say, 'If he is accepted in the there, why not back in his own land?'

Chuck   August 27th, 2008 1126 GMT

Thaksin's party just keeps getting elected.

It's called democracy. Get over it.

Ivy King   August 27th, 2008 1136 GMT

Claiming Thaksin government win election on vote buying is one-sided. True, the wining party did buy votes. Equally true, is the fact that the loosing party buy as much votes themselves. I have never heard of an election in this part of the world (exception for Singapore) that does not buy votes by all parties. Reminds me of the idiom "pot calling the kettle black".

christian   August 27th, 2008 1153 GMT

LOL @ ND_ASEAN

"Street protests are short cuts which can be used once but not all the time – if you want to change things go to the country side and create a revolution which generates that mass support and then win the election. Thats the democratic way"

You're being sarcastic right...? :D

Pete   August 27th, 2008 1202 GMT

All problems here were from poor education system. The people in rural area don't even think what's good for the country in the long run. Money can buy many things here but not everything.

Democracy and parliament system here is totally failed that's why people need to go out and protest proxy government.

I hope that, from now on, we'll wake up from the nightmare from the past 6 years.

varothai   August 27th, 2008 1210 GMT

i was once told that with knowledge, one could hope to win the war. time and again the PAD has proven this wrong. knowledge without power is meaningless.

Somtam   August 27th, 2008 1218 GMT

I'm not a Thai but living her for 12 years already.
Why not let Taksin come back with a deal .
I think for the whole country it will be from benefit
If he get 5 years jail but get probation and for disqualified for life in politics.
The fine will be the fraudet money plus an intrest rate
So the goverment have to spend this money then for the poorer and to stabelize the Economy.
How about this ?
I think every one even Taksin would be pleased and the Thai goverment could focus on other things

K.A.   August 27th, 2008 1219 GMT

Thaksin was the best prime minister Thailand ever had for the past 76 years.He had done much more good deeds for the coutry more than all other prime minister combinded. He had practically get rid of narcotic drugs and illegal lottery and smuggle goods.These are the main costs of his downfall.Corruption is normal in any country including Thailand.But coruption in Thaksin's government was probably less than others. A lot of people very much doubt that Thaksin and his family corrupted nor did anything against the law.( May be his freinds?) A very minority of people protest against the government with backing of drug dealers,people who lost vast interest in crimes,some army units, people who want power to profit from it. This is the doomday for Thailand. Fortunate we still have the very best King. And we are prouded of our King and the royal family.

Busba   August 27th, 2008 1255 GMT

As a Thai citizen, it is so disheartening and disappointed to see how Thai democracy is being pushed back several steps again with this demonstration when in the past people fought so hard (with bloodshed) just to have one more step closer to democracy. I believe that PAD strategically makes the wrong political move. I am doubtful of the real motives and intentions behind PAD's political agenda. It claims that this demonstration is for the greater good of Thailand and the current government is not credible to manage the country, but what PAD is doing is not benefiting anyone either. It is totally taking Thailand backwards. The demonstration is a signal to the international community that Thailand's political situation is unstable and unpredictable. This will eventually damage Thai economy and likely reduce foreign investors' confidence to invest in the country. At the end, as you may guess, the ordinary Thais will be the ones who are severely hurt the most. What PAD should and can do is to change the political system slowly. They should try to educate the rural people and win their hearts instead of using a short cut to gain a political ground as they are doing right now. This will further escalates the conflict and possibly lead to violence and who knows what's next.

Tim Taylor   August 27th, 2008 1259 GMT

I am no fan of the Samak government but the extent to which the PAD have now gone is both outrageous and dangerously stupid. The eyes of the world are once again on Thailand where a so-called Alliance for Democracy is demanding the government stand down through violent bullying means made deliberately to provoke a violent reaction. There is nothing democratic about the PAD's actions and "react" the government will, as indeed it must. Khon Thai are like badly behaved children, prone to outburst and tears. When will this nation get over their obsessions, their subservience, their chip on the shoulder attitude to the outside world and their innate extreme violence and start to grow up.

SB   August 27th, 2008 1312 GMT

Are you kidding me?

For all you Americans out there, how far would a mob trying to overthrow the government get on the Capital grounds? The PAD crossed the line when they started to block roads and forced their way into government buildings.

It is very obvious that most people at the rally aren't aware that PAD is really trying to take away their voice by stealing their vote.

Eric   August 27th, 2008 1321 GMT

Corrupt leader for a corrupt country. Takes a thief to catch a thief. This country has to start at the bottom and work up the way to form a proper democracy. Pay a decent wage to the workers and stop all the bribes...................................

ADDY   August 27th, 2008 1333 GMT

It's too much for them to do that. Thailand's ever been place of peace,but now I'm not sure. If I could say to them I'd like to say "stop please".

steve   August 27th, 2008 1400 GMT

K.A. are you living in the same Thailand I'm living in?? If so, can I borrow those special glasses that you are wearing. You are correct about 1 thing – our King. Next time listen closely to what he is saying.

Michael   August 27th, 2008 1413 GMT

This is the great thing about Thailand. No matter how many "revolutions", you can still enjoy a glass of red wine a few streets away from Samak, Sonthi and the rest of the lunatics.

Anony   August 27th, 2008 1430 GMT

May be Thais should have waited for another election so that they can ousted the current government according to the law.I think it become a habit for the Thais to demonstrate and attempting coup to change the government whenever they disappoint on them and i think that might hinder the economy and also results bad image to its neighbors.

Top   August 27th, 2008 1431 GMT

Exactly, Thailand is not ready for full democracy. There has been 18 coups in 70 years, don't they just realise that the current system doesn't work? How stupid.

Thais are and have always been generally kind and peace loving people compared to others. The main problem is the poor education system, I agree with Pete.

By having the right to vote in an election, people have the right to decide for themselves the future of their country. But how can this be done when those votes come from those who are undereducated? They only vote to gain quick money.

Ty   August 27th, 2008 1450 GMT

The PAD cannot survive without a majority support in Thailand. People who fight with heart will win and they show that they come to support the PAD because Thai Government is full of corruption !!!

How many government would stay this long?? I would say Thai government is very very selfish about themselves they dont come out to talk to the people they just hide behind the scene !!

BUUBUU   August 27th, 2008 1454 GMT

I think we have a well educated candidate to replace this gov. But his name is not out in the public yet.

Dean   August 27th, 2008 1456 GMT

I am a foreigner living in Bangkok for the last 4 years. My wife is Thai and my son is half Thai and I truly care about this country.

I think the current situation in Thailand is a result of the minority elite being unhappy about the underprivileged majority choosing who runs the country.

I don't disagree that Thaksin made some huge mistakes, especially regarding not paying tax on the Shincorp deal, but who else in government has done anything for poor people in Thailand? What would the PAD do for the people if they were running the country?

This is a classic example of elite Thais thinking they know best and people outside of Bangkok are uneducated and ignorant.

Whether they like it or not this government has been elected. If the PAD really wants to make a difference they should start a political party and spend the elite's money on educating the rural people, who in their minds are all uneducated, about the effects of vote buying and see if the Thai people are truly behind them.

George   August 27th, 2008 1456 GMT

If Thai people couldread the book "The King Never Smiles" and see all the yellow shirts the general population of Thailand would see what the problem with Thai politics is

stephff   August 27th, 2008 1516 GMT

It looks like a few PAD leaders have found some ways to nourish their egos in the past 2 years by moving then of thousands of people in the streets but now they have a difficulty of let go and while the arguments at the beginning were probably from a sincere frustration , the arguments are now very poor and it looks like more like a desesperate attempt for guys like Sondhi or Chamlong to exist ( and at the cost of looking for a bloodbath ).

Any democratic country would not accept the invasion of the White House or the Elysee Matignon by 10,000 unhappy citizens ( it's easy to find 10,000 unhappy citizens any country in the World ) apart from Monaco, Liechtenstein or the Vatican...

VW   August 27th, 2008 1548 GMT

It disgusts me the amount of screening that happens in Thailand. Since the rise of the Samak govt., the PAD rallies have been downplayed so much to the point of inanity. And the foreign media follows in their wake. When hundreds attended, no-one knew.
when thousands attended the rallies, CNN said a hundred.
then Samak threatened violence, again and again, and now the numbers have reached hundreds of thousands as threats of violence from police seem more and more likely.. still numbers are kept to but thousands in the news.
It is thankful that the Army has dug in its heels as papers were released prematurely uncovering that pro-Thaksin people, and only them, were about to be promoted to the very top of the army's echelon. Thereby taking over the Army.
Yet it outrages me that CNN has seems to insinuate that the PAD is not, fundamentally, a peaceful protest. For all their disregards of lesser laws(traffic) and now larger laws(the warrants, though they have said they wont resist arrest.. only if the police can reach them through a hundred thousand protesters) the PAD protests have been nothing if not peaceful. It would be insane to arm normal civilians with guns after all. and that is what PAD protesters are, civilians. Be they farmers, workers, company owners or CEOs. The 80 persons arrested with guns and knives were NOT of PAD. Such a tactic is stupid. why use violence 'now' when all they had to do was surround the TV station with sheer numbers? Most probably a third-party anti-PAD group (and I only say probably as it may have links to the Govt. after all) attempted to frame the PAD and CNN has gobbled up the gibberish that the NBT and other govt. controlled media outlet have spewed and painted the entirety of the PAD protesters as some sort of bloodthirsty rabble that wont see reason.
Thaksin, Samak and their ilk need to be cleansed from politics if we are to get anywhere. Their control over the country has rendered no outlets for any meaningful protest leading to the PAD rallies. They are given free reign to try and subvert this countries constitution. They have almost succeeded in taking over the Army. And while it doesnt seem to be the case yet, I fear for our Justice system in the following decade if this proxy-govt is still in power.

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.
Even as our corruption runs rampant in our land and our actions twisted by our govt. with promises of more to come the longer they are in power, can you blame us to do anything and everything that is in our power to stop them in anyway we can? Perhaps this latest action of the PAD was not the wisest, perhaps. But had we stayed back and let the govt. and media trample all over us, I truly fear for the direction of this country.

tee   August 27th, 2008 1555 GMT

For some thai people, "corruption" is acceptable.
It's ok for government to corrupt(if the government have done something good for this country)
And what are good for Thailand?
free bus, free train, free electricity
you just throw money for poor people
That's all you have to do.
Now poor people feel that the don't have to pay because they are poor.
Isn't it a pity?

varothai   August 27th, 2008 1647 GMT

someone once said it's best to educate the leaders, not the mass. the PAD is doing just that.

Toni   August 27th, 2008 1648 GMT

Okay, here's the deal. You all pay taxes, right? Now, what would you do if the people you elected (or not) are in power and has decided to suddenly create various MEGA project that is wiping away your countrys economy? Mmm? No, do go to democracy, cry babies tactics or what ever. Just think for a minute. You can't tell them no, don't blow all my hard earned taxes away just because you need to pocket the money for your next election. What will you do.....go and protest. Why? Not because it democratic, but you want them to know "hey! It's my money and I want you to spend it the right way." Would you do it or would you just loll around and say "to hell with my tax money and my country". Just make sure that you don't lie (even to yourself) when you give me the answer.

That's what is going on with the PAD.

And for those who said Thaksin has done a lot for the country? I wouldn't even go there. It's a different road all together. Eventhough it all leads back to the same conclusion.

krid   August 27th, 2008 1709 GMT

Having lived in Thailand for over 12 years I can say this: Thailand is a wonderful country largely devoid of crime, despite the appaling social discrepancies. Thais are wonderful people, truly unique, gentle, strong minded, easy-going and genuinely friendly, with an incomparable "tongue in cheek" approach to life. And, Thailand is rapidly maturing as a democracy, thanks to improving education and the Internet, with hardly any state censorship of information as you might find in China or India.
On the other hand, the negatives are coming home to roost now, and more so in the coming years: The total absence of social responsibility. There is absolutely no concept of the common good, all actions are self-serving or for the benefit of the immediate "clan" or group, This is a common cultural phenomenon in East Asia, with China trying to instill some common conscience through rabid nationalism (some try that in China too). The PAD leaders are 100% self-serving agitators, with Sondhi seeking to get back at his former crony Thaksin for purely personal slights (involving money of course). The same goes for Chamlong and the other leaders.
The other negative is the patron-client structure of society, with "big people" living in impunity and owing the "little people" small handouts for their loyalty. This was exploited by Thaksin and is the root of the vote buying scourge. Giving away one's vote without remuneration to "big people" (politicians), is an absurd thought for the "little peope" (votes going to all parties). The phuyai (big people) can also gather large crowds, with the protesters getting money in return. Yes, each and every yellow-clad protester "for democracy" is getting paid to protest, for many probably for want of something better to do. The rest is a clash of inflated egos.

Jakka   August 27th, 2008 1752 GMT

Please eye on the situation seriously, Fear that P.M. Samak will use force wtih the protesters. Yesterday around 3.00 am, the Police Dept. sent force and injured some protesters. The police authorities said that some policemen was sent just to switch shift wtih the ones inside the compound of Thailand's Government House. It breaks my heart to watch armored and armed policemen, used rough force with bare hand protesters.

One of big problem of democracy in Thailand is education system. You can notice easily that most of the government parties were elected from far upcountry. Holding the mojority of the votes, didn't grant government to do anything against the morality. Some of the ministers known as mafia and corruptor. Lack of morality, ignor to voices of people, have created PAD. The protesters have devoted themselves to be out there. Without them, the governemt will do whatever they want, even trying to change the constitution to ensure their power and to give amnasty to ousted PM Thaksin.

The police duty is to protect good people, please don't forget that. Hope for safety to all protesters.

ThaiGuy   August 27th, 2008 1917 GMT

We as a nation, have had our democracy given to us too easily. We never earned it like many other countries did through their past. And as such, we don't value it as highly, which is unfortunate. As a people and a country, we have potential beyond limit. But we've never had that one unifying force that leads us through our infancy and shapes us, Democratically speaking. Look at Singapore. Say what you will about LKY, but he made that country what it is, and he was smart enough to transform it in his latter years to maintain what his country had become. We as Thais are unified by our King, a man who has gone above and beyond his call to duty for his country to the best of his abilities. As a King. Today, we need a Democratic leader. Thaksin could have been that man. He wasn't. Money didn't corrupt him, power did. And I agree with the above comments, I'm sure we haven't heard the last of him either. As a matter of fact, with the state of our politics, we never hear the last of anyone in office. They just keep getting recycled. New party name, new cabinet positions, etc. I do not support Thaksin. I voted for him the first time around but that was also the last time. However, I do not support the way he was ousted either. And we as a nation, encouraged the current situation, by accepting the coup back in September two years ago. We shouldn't have accepted the coup no matter what we thought of our democratically elected leader. We are either a Democracy or we aren't. Ask the majority of Americans, and you will find more people that are against Bush, than that are for. Yet we never see people storming the White House or Capitol Hill. Our political system is set up where one man can't just rise up and take the nation by storm with the promise of change and hope. No, if Obama were Thai, he'd have to start his political career by becoming a member of one of the ruling parties or the opposition, work his way up, establish a network, form allies with powerful members of his or various parties, and by the time he had enough clout to make a real run for the office of Prime Minister, he'd be firmly established into the current political system and you'd get a brand new candidate built from the exact same mold. (See our current leader of the Democratic Party) Our current government is a joke. But the PAD is an even bigger joke. Sondthi got into the fray when he was rejected by Thaksin on a business deal. Nothing more, nothing less. I say again, our government is a joke. But that isn't the saddest thing about our politics. The sad thing is, we have no alternative. Vote buying is a fact of life for every Asian Democracy with the exception of maybe Singapore. It's just varying degrees of how blatant you do it. Even America isn't immune to voter fraud. I digress. But the situation upsets me. I grew up all over the world. Graduated College in the US and worked there for ten years. I've come home now for the past three years, and I'm torn. I love my country. On a day to day basis, there is no greater place to live. Yet, I've had to vote around four times since I've been back, and there's been no hint of any political stability. But our country goes on. And that's our problem. We sit back and we let things take it's course. An election? Ok, we'll go vote. A coup? Fine, what's next? Samak as our PM? Are you kidding? Oh well, they had the money. PAD? Again? and so forth. We've survived before and we know we'll survive again. We just don't know how. And until our collective attitude changes, this cycle will continue to repeat itself and we'll continue to complain about it. But we'll also continue forward, with a smile on our faces too, because we're Thai, and that's what we do.

Bluebird   August 27th, 2008 2033 GMT

PDA has been doing something like rebellions. Nothing can be justified for their actions. It is really bad for the country as a whole. I wonder there is any involvement of the King in this situation. I know that the same as PAD, he do not like Thaksin.

sunai   August 27th, 2008 2209 GMT

Dan,
I agree with what you say:
"overthrowing another government would seem only to undermine the dysfunctional democracy here."
But, I think if 'to undermine the dysuctional democracy' would lead to a 'functiontional one', then it 's worth trying to overthrow this corrupted, outlaw government.

We (Thai people) have nothing more to lose.

B   August 28th, 2008 324 GMT

Oligarch rule has always been an Asian democratic phenomenon. Given the long history of hardship in Asia, it is almost always that the provider would be the leader. This may really take a while for new democracy to mature.

Looking back to the Philippine, Thailand and other Asian democracy, it is quite difficult to see a strong leader that holds good moral authority. Sometimes, we are much better off to have leaders that may be perceived corrupt but can deliver a lot of good programs to the country. Hoping that in due time, these programs will flourished and people became more mature and at the same time, leaders will have both moral authority and leadership. At this time however, it is merely the lesser of two evils.

Going back to Thailand protestors, these are the same Oligarch elite that can be no better than Mr. Thaksin. What a shame!

passing by   August 28th, 2008 926 GMT

Agree with ThaiGuy! Thailand is still Thailand, I think we have our way to deal with all these problems!

DJK   August 28th, 2008 930 GMT

Trying to achieve true democracy in Thailand is a tough job, but for the sake of the Thai people, it needs to get done. The question is how? I don't believe the constant cycle of coups, demonstrations, etc. is the right way. I think first off a fully open, national constitutional convention needs to be held to construct a document that the majority of Thai people can accept. This can only be done with the approval and support of the King. Then the Thai Military must be cleansed, leaving only those that fully and completely commit to protecting and defending this new constitution as well as ensuring loyalty to the King. Finally, the voting process must be cleaned up, which could be done by setting up an independent election management/watchdog group reporting to the Thai judiciary. I may be out in left field, but those are my thoughts. I have strong connections to Thailand, and sincerely hope that its political problems can be truly fixed – it can't keep going the way it has.

DJK   August 28th, 2008 1114 GMT

Of course, even with the regular coups, etc. that happen in Thailand, what other country can lay claim to the fact that during coups, the stores, movie theaters and restaurants stay open – pretty much business as usual ;-). Yes, Thailand is and will always remain Thailand!

Truth is always tuff.   August 28th, 2008 1649 GMT

PAD or BAD... What they are doing is wrong. The PAD leader has nothing but personal agenda. Thaksin may not be clean. Samak may not be wise. But, PAD can not be right.
Just putting the Democracy in their name doesn't make them believe in democracy. Many of the PAD leaders were actually accused of being communist during 1973 and 1976. Also the last time he brought his supporters to die, Mr.Jamrong gave a promiss to the great one that he would not to be involved in politics ever again.
After raiding into NBT, the PAD leader told the public that PAD was set up. PAD didnot order the raid into NBT, merely, they only want to station at NBT. What does that mean? They raid other government offices but afraid to admit to the media that they had made the wrong enermy?
Such a lier. They are not even a man of their words. Like many said, they don't know what they want. They don't know what is good for the country. They just enjoy the destruction of this country.

If PAD is true to its causes (if they really have a cause), they should really start following the rules. Not just the rules of majority, but the rules of The Kingdom of Thailand.

Truth is always tuff.   August 28th, 2008 1701 GMT

Looking at the photo shown, I am so sorry and disappointed that the PAD has chosen yellow shirts. The color representing the love that Thai people have for our king. The great memory of our beloved king waved to his citizens all in yellow shirts. PAD should never have used the yellow shirt as their symbol. They do not represent the king nor Thailand as they are destroying the country with their own hands.

Kaew   August 28th, 2008 2111 GMT

Problem in Thia politic is very complicated. The major problem is that everyone claim that they are on the good side and the other side is bad one. They don't try to discuss to solve the problem and tend to hold what they already believe. I don't know Mr.Thaksin is really guilty or not. It's up to the court to judge, not me and not by PAD either, so I will leave it. However, what PAD did on Tuesday morning is totally unacceptable.

PAD accused NBT as government tool and they invaded to link its broadcast system to ASTV, their channel. They failed only because the system was protected by keycard. Although at first PAD claims that 82 people who are arrested that morning(before the main protestors came) are not their peole, PAD later demand for their release and claim that they are being framed. One of the prisoner has very close relationship with Jomlong Srimuang(If you want a proof, I can send you picture).

Majority of PAD is middle to elite class. But that doesn't mean they can ignore someone who also live within the same society. They may be smart and well educated, that doesn't give them any right to ignore decision of the mass. They think that their interest is interest of all.

To Tee, I think that they don't accept "corruption" at all. What they accept is "conflict of interest". As long as the result is OK, they don't care who did it.

To Jakka. Did you really watch the video? Protesters wern't unaremed. They have flags, sticks and clubs which they used to break police line to invade earlier.

I suggest that you should provide background of PAD leaders especially Panlob who was recently named to be 2nd generation leader. This man is more than most people see and his involvement in 2006 coup has to be noticed.

Lisa   August 29th, 2008 508 GMT

It couldn't be more clear NBT the government's station is a propaganda weapon for the government.

Right now, right after the police used tear gas and beat protesters, the NBT newscasters are reporting that "the police are not using violence, they are merely going into the government house to protect the people."
The appeals court has announced it is legal for the protesters to continue for 15 days.

Khlongwater   August 29th, 2008 616 GMT

Thais love drama. Period. The cheesier the better. Gossip is the national pastime – running neck and neck with gambling. By staging, yes staging, these maneuvers (like the New Year's bombings where surprisingly low impact explosives were used, think Hollywood flash-bang), the attention is firmly on the farcical facade that is this current political stalemate – withe the emphasis on stale, average folk are equally bored with both sides – and not on the failed economic policies that see the value of wages dropping faster than tourist arrival rates amidst a strengthening Baht artificially devalued domestically and a fuel subsidy that is selling out tomorrow so people can drive today. Coupled to that is an unfavorable, recently enacted bilateral trade agreement with China, one gets to thinking..."Does Sonthi or Srimuang really want to step in and govern out of this mess?" And where to begin...

sierra   August 29th, 2008 1452 GMT

i dont support PAD and i doubt if the majority of thai people does. this government came via the election and we, being democratic, should accept the result and let the government work to prove themselves.

to oust samak by the demonstration is just downright anachic. what would happen when we had another election and the PAD didnt like the government? another rally of protesters? this has to stop right now. the PAD must stop right now. they are doing damage to the country, marale and economy wise. sondhi limthongkul is as bad as thaksin shinawatra. sondhi is harming our country right now and dares to claim that it's for the good of the nation. he has his own agenda and kids himself that nobody sees through it.

Don   August 29th, 2008 1702 GMT

No matter what have been said about the PAD leaders and their motives.
Fact remains that the administrations of Thaksin and Samak committed crimes! Samak has been sentenced a 2 year jail term by the criminal court of Bangkok. Thaksin jumped bail and is not willing to return for judicial review. Samak is trying to end all investigations against Thaksin by all means which includes the change of constitution under he was supposedly elected democratically. He's also trying to manipulate and delay the decision of the courts of appeal in his own case. All public TV stations are being used as a propaganda tool for the government which in facts means, the government control media which is not acceptable by western standard. As Dan Rivers pointed out correctly, most rural people love Thaksin. But that's not because he has done anything good for them. They are just make to believe that he's done good for them. It's not that hard when you control main stream media, is it? Otherwise Dan Rivers wouldn't have noticed that all these people are still very poor despite Thaksins promise to end poverty by six years! In fact, they even got poorer under Thaksins adminstration. So what are we Thais supposed to do, wait for another rigged election and let these crooks do what they pleased? Their crimes including murder of activist who are against them.
Thank you to all the champions of democracy!

Jakka   August 29th, 2008 1922 GMT

Kaew, I watched all kind of sources, and believed what I've seen. Picture paints a thousand words. Police used violence force with protesters, and refused of doing that. Again video clips painted much more than a thousand words. And that's brought out lots more of protesters.

NBT has been painting false news as voices of the government. Instead of reporting the truth, NBT announcers put their negative opinion with PAD to the audience. NBT is not neutral. Still I believe that the protesters are unarmed. The guard of PAD might armed with golf clubs and bat to protect unarmed PAD, other than that still in doubt.

The propose of protesting is to clean out the system of corruption politicians. Some of these politicians convicted and couldn't take any positions in government, refused to step out, they sent their wives to be ministers instead of them.

I'd like to pay respect to all braved, devoted protesters. Without you all, Samak would have done lots and lots of things to benefit himself and his parties.

Party_Anti_Democracy   September 1st, 2008 1303 GMT

@Dan Rivers CNN.... PAD = Party ANTI Democracy! Thats the only truth! I cant understand your words about the link between Thaksin and Somsak? Look in YOUR country where the over years existing link between your candidate for president(Obama) and his pastor.. an anti american using his position to smash hateful words and heaten up the people to hate america. So Obama is automaticly shure same minded.. All the words about may be, they seem, people say... is rubish! Your sympathie for the PAD can be seen by reading your article.. but if any group in america would go to sit in the white house front-back-yard, armed with helmets and baseballsticks and so on hold a "Peaceful" demonstration for longer than 6 days, close down roads, airports,railways.. would you write in the same way? YOU absolutely know that this protesters would not sit even 10 minutes being hunted out by armed heavy police force to keep country under law and order! Thats the only thing Khun Samak must let to critic him, to less force against this mob sitting in Bangkok! A democratic process and democratic meanings are not different from Europe, to US or Thailand! Democratic means the minority the mayority's descissions...

@hellNO   September 1st, 2008 1312 GMT

@HellNO. It is a big Happyness that Khun Samak is still resisting the violance of the stupid PAD (CPAD = Crime Party anti democrat) and hopefully he will stay and knock down this "peaceful" demonstration with the neccessary force same every other country would do. I would like to see that scene in China.. or Europe.. or US.. how many minutes they would occupy a Government place..

taylor   September 1st, 2008 1356 GMT

Last nights' bomb at the police booth near the PAD, is it coincidence? It reminds me of the bombs from New Year's Eve in 2006, right after Thaksin was deposed.

Is that possible to be the same group that made it?

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