This is the first time i browse CNN website, to get a clear understanding on the issue of Georgia-Russia. And i must say having a scepticism at the beginning on CNN objectivism (i had the idea that CNN was more leaning towards the Georgian side on this matter from the CNN television), i was surprise that CNN would post such a clear and unbias (seeing the situation from both side) blog like this. Guess i would start reading CNN more, instead just BBC and Al-Jazeera.

Well-written article. It's closer to the truth than anythign else I have seen on CNN. Why wasn't it posted on the front page?

Cynical use of force? Wasn't that what the Georgians did when they rained down a barrage of rockets on South Ossetia?

Has CNN become a tool for duplicity – I'm sure the Russians wanted to teach Saakashvili a lesson but surely you realise he has brought this on himself

BTW are you guys getting taken over by FoxNews because I'm beginning to see the same "lack" of news & opinions of events rather than the facts

No one reads history books anymore. He who challenges the Bear may be mauled by the Bear. Putin is proving he as sharp a Leader as anyone in this generation. The West is again leading by false promises they can't deliver.

As balanced a view, as can be realistically expected.

It's been a pleasure to see objective and well-balanced author's view in this article. I wish there were more such sober-minded journalists in the West, Russia and Georgia.

Will someone please explain to me how George Bush and John McCain expect us to except their clame that the Russians are out of line by invading Georgia, when we did exactly that when we invaded Iraq. We set the standard for behavior in the 21st Century and now the Russians are following our example.

Surprised to see the first more or less unbiased article. CNN still has a long way to go to really tell its readers and especially viewers what really happened in South Osetia but this is a good start anyway.

Thank you for this at least...

Perhaps some reports with pictures and videos from Tskhinvali (with the burned and ripped apart bodies of children and their mothers) can be shown to your readers and viewers to show the results of the actions ordered by democratic Saakashvili...

Oh, and one more thing that I forgot to mention in my previous comment.

Today is a day of mourning in Russia. All flags in the country are at half mast, including all the embassies etc. The only embassy in Russia that left its flag fying up high is a US Embassy in Moscow.

This is a real insult to the Russian nation as a whole and especially for the families of those killed and displaced in this conflict.

I am surprised that CNN did not mention this in any reports today.

1 500 dead people in Tshinvali after only one night of Geogian artillery's attack...
What would have happened if Russian forces hadn't supported Ossetians? Would 10 000 deaths be enough for Europe and America to say to Georgia "it is not democratic, don't do such things, please"? Or may be 20 000 of 60 000 of Ossetia's population?
Russia has helped Ossetians to survive as a nation, but now many Western politics say that Georgians was just defending.. By kiling peaceful people they mean? They say Russia uses USSR's policy. Ok, if the policy of helping people not to die and defending them is the USSR's policy, let it be. But I believe it is humanity (or humanism, as you like) and Western countries should admit it.
Because there are some things in the world which cost much more than any political aims.. For example, people's life...

A comment from Moscow here.
Robin, you seem to be quite logical in your basic judgement. There's little need to go into details, but some of your passages are indeed erroneous, or, say "partially true". One thing bothers me quite significantly - you're not mentioning the actual reason for the conflict - the fighting in South Ossetia, as if it didn't happen at all. That's sad.

But once again - thank you for the editorial, it is not purely advocative of any side of the conflict, and I respect that

Russian might will dampen all US ambitions – anytime soon.

THAT RUSSIAN SOLDIER IS HOT!!!

In the past few days Saakashvili spent so much time in front of media, all dressed up looking like a charlatan used car salesman.

I truly believe he does not care to the situation he or his people are in. Someone must tell him that he is not running for an election, he is in a deep trouble and his people are suffering badly because of his piss-poor decision making.

I believe the West should make him to realize that he has done his people lots of harm and try to support him in order to help his people instead of backing him up to dig his own grave as well as innocent Georgian people.

Who knows, may be the West is helping him to dig his own grave

How is Russia's action to protect the security of population in South Ossetia any different from actions taken by US to protect Kosovo population?
Why is it so difficult to understand that Ossetians will never want to be part of Georgia? And that leaving that region in Georgia's hands will only lead to violence in the future?

Very balanced view on the realpolitik.
I would add that Russian passport is the only way for some people to have a normal life. I have a friend who lives in London. Her parents from Abkhazia can only see the grand children by traveling on Russian passport. It is a real problem was created by internal fighting in Georgia in 1990-es and not invented by Putin.

I ever wounder if the writers of these articles actually ever re-read and assess what has been written. Does objective reporting exist anymore or is it all propaganda of certain opinions and views? In order to make some sense of the situation, the audience actually needs to get information from all available sources and everyone needs to one's own opionion – without reliance on information coming from a single source of meadia / journalists. CNN in particular has been extremely biased in reporting on this conflict by presenting only one side of the conflict – which often was based on initially flawed and incomplete information and even at times outright and purposfully exaserbated lies. Having been educated in the "west" and having lived here for over 10 years, i had a luxury of following the coverage of the conflict by all sides and my conclusions are not simply based on the my natural "sympathy" for Russia, but on factual comparison of the information presented. The most striking example were the headlines of the first few days which essentially blamed Russia for all the casualties and which were along the lines of: "Russia invades Georgia, over 2,000 dead..." – wher the facts were that more then 90% of casualties and destruction of the whole town of Tskhinvali were caused by the intial attack of the Georgian forces on Ossetian civilians (bombig durig the opening night of the Olympics)

Some of the controversial conclusions or references that are made within this article are:
1) why is it wrong to care about one's interests?
2) since when employing Double Standards is a good and fair?

A conclusion that can be drawn from this whole conflict – Although Russia has won on the ground by achieving its aims that were set (i.e. protecting the Ossetian population and de-escalating the conflict) – Russia has lost out the information "war", as the facts were either completely ignored or grossly misinterpreted.

By initiating a military action against its own citizens in the separatist region of Osetia, Georgian president and government :

- dragged the Georgian people in a tragic adventure;
- ignored the NATO principles of peacefully solving the internal problems;
- entirely compromised Georgia's real perspectives to become a NATO member;
- deeply affected the aspirations of other countries to become NATO members;
- affected in the long term the stability and peace in the area and region.

How credible can be such a government and president for USA and NATO allies and for the Georgian people?

Good analysis overall, but you could write a better one if you would be aware that you too have an inherent bias against Russia (or bias in favor of the West).
For starters, loose statements like this: "It (Russia) is not operating in the 21st century style of diplomacy." Oh, and what exactly is the 21st century style of diplomacy? Was it perhaps when a certain behemoth from your beloved West bribed every craphole of a country it could find (e.g. Georgia) with bogus promises, just to get them on board an oil-plunder expedition into some other "sovereign" country, for that behemoth knew all too well he would need the facade of an international mission when all his justifications for invading that sovereign country turn out to be lies.
Too complex for you? Maybe that's the problem. Russia's interests are much simpler, much more limited and much less demanding than those of the mentioned behemoth. Don't be too quick to vilify Russia if you don't yet understand the world you live in.

Hope you're not a decision maker for NATO 8- ) yet; Just curious was it so much that West Germany army contributed to NATO upon joining? And was it politically smooth having East Germany just next to it, were there plastic sabers, too? If Russia did not want to be a successor to the empire it would not be a question.

Dear CNN:

Do you understand that when you write "Georgia's assault on South Ossetia's separatists", you are actually referring to Georgia's undifferentiated rocket shower over a territory inhabited (previously) by more than one hundred thousand people? A territory which had an accepted autonomy status within Georgia, and where Russia has a peace-keeping mandate?

You say that civilian casualties are "unverifiable". Just because you, for some reason, do not want to verify them, though, this statement does not become any less untenable. Please fly your correspondents to South Ossetia where official death toll rises by hundreds even as I write this.

But then of course trying to look at the problem from a different angle means the age-old stereotype of a drunk Russian, ready at any time to launch his rusty nuclear missiles–the stereotype, in other words, that has paid time and again–needs to be cast off. And... the world may just not be ready for it yet. Or mayn't it?

Best regards,
Stan Mikhailov
Moscow

3:55 PM
Aug 13 08 Wed
Los Angeles
CA USA

My perspective view about what is happenning in GEORGIA is,
The Behavior of the Russian leaders are INAPPROPIATE

Everyone should remember that the whole conflict started when georgian army attacked ossetian civilians and killed hundreds of them. After that, friday mourning, Russia called for an action in UN, but the US vetoed any decisions. US preferred to act like nothing happened, while killing of civilians continued. And only after that, Russia moved in with forces. Russian use of force saved thousands lives of civilians from georgian genocide.

Bush and Rice chose a wrong guy to ally with. Saakashvili could declare his loyalty to western values, but in fact he is a typical eastern despot, no better than Pol Pot. And they are going to share the responsibility for every new death of ossetian or abkhaz civilians. Their behaviour made it clear to Saakashvili that killing of civilians is all right and he is not going to stop. He just needs some new american armaments, equipment and money to continue his Ossetian massacre.

Russia been using deplomacy for 16 years to solve this conflict between Georgia-South Osetia-Abhasia, but Georgia is the type of state which does not understand a diplomacy. To begin with, Georgia never owned those two regions, Stalin gave them to Georgia and who was Stalin, he was georgian and of course he loved the idea to make his homeland bigger. But that is not the point. Russia had all rights to go into South Osetia and force georgian's army out from it. The important point is that Russian soldiers went into S Osetia after georgian's army attacked it. Almost 1,800 children, women and old people, who were russian citizens, were killed and 11 cities destroyed, what US and EU thought Russia will do? So, what Russia did was right. Israel attacked Lebonon after 2 soldiers were missing and US did not say a thing. US started two wars after Twin Towers were destroyed. I do not advocate violence, but Russia did what it had to do as a state: protect your citizens.

Robin, I am not trying to be disrespectful, but it's very sad for me to see how little you understand of the real cause behind the Russia's campaign in Georgia. Or do you actually understand pretty well, but still present things in a rather twisted way because that's what the public (or the US government or who knows who else) wants to hear. It's just very disappointing. I am deeply disturbed by how Western media in general is deliberately pouring dirt on the reputation of Russia, its leadership, it's army and its foreign policies. Please forgive me, but I say "deliberately," because I don't buy that very experienced journalists working for CNN and other respected news agencies can't easily get to the bottom of this conflict and see for themselves what's really going on beneath the surface and who is to blame rather than presenting a view that some hilly Billy might have of the whole thing while picking up a newspaper for the first time in the last fifteen years and reading the front page headlines with the big picture of the Russian tank. I just don't understand what's going on with all this propaganda, which by definition is "twisted truth." Adding something little here, omitting something there, completely leaving out some facts (sometimes very interesting facts) – all in all taking the available facts and making them into some sort of collage of whatever one wants it to be and then presenting it to the world as NEWS!!! I don't think one have to be a genius to understand what things truly are. All it takes is a little desire to tell people the truth and willingness to sometimes be looked at as a black sheep. But, of course, who wants that? Here in the US, we like to preach to others about the freedom of speech, but tell me, what's the point of having it, if even the most respected journalist and newscasters are not even trying to take advantage of it in their own free country? I thank CNN for letting me to express my opinion.

How would the americans react to Russian advisers and military experts arming and training the Mexican military? also telling them that they wold guarantee their support in case of american military action against mexico.

I am not condoning the Russian action, but lets be fair even an average citizen like myself could see this coming the way bush and some Nato members are crazy on expanding east.

These people are very dangerous the way the are using little pawns like Saakashvile and the like to stir up trouble, they will not be happy untill they start a third world war.

Great article!!! This is one of the most honest, and balanced pieces I have read about this conflict. It is very well written and covers all bases from both sides. Thank you!

"For Saakashvili, who came to office pledged to restore to Georgia the de facto separatist provinces of South Ossetia and Abkhazia, the sadness is that premature action has now probably lost him all chance of ever achieving that reunification."

Why are the foreign correspondents not going after Georgia and exposing the war crimes. Saakashvili goals do not justify his tactics nor do they garner the support of the American government. Europe should ban Georgia from NATO and accept the Ukraine. Russia should be our ally and we should look to them for leadership in dealing with terrorists and NAZI's like Saakashvili. He is worse than Hitler. The thought that Bush, McCain, and Obama wanted to support Georgia makes me feel like I am in pre WWII Europe. Don't we ever learn? Can Putin run for the American Presidency? Our leaders overlook the U.S. Constitution anyway.

Dear Sir,

Please be kind and explain to me the differencies between S.Osettia and Kosovo?

I am from Macedonia and I will be grateful if after your explanation I will have the opportunity to tell you my remarks.

Best regards,

Dr, Kokovijadis Dimitrios

And how will you explain this:
Georgia has been spending 10 % GDP for military for last 4 years. Solders were well-trained by US instructors and much military equipment was given by US for free. What were these preparations for?

90% of Ossetians took Russian citizenship, because the leaving standards are much better in Russia (15000 USD per capita) than Georgia (4,667 USD per capita). Why US do not help here instead?

PRES. SAAKASHVILI ALREADY WENT INTO THIS WAR ALSO IN THE NAME OF THE EU AND THE USA. WHY? BECAUSE HE IS ALWAYS SEEN WITH THE TWO FLAGS BEHIND HIM.

WHAT IS REALLY 21ST CENTURY STYLE OF DIPLOMACY? FABRICATE INTELLIGENCE REPORTS AND BOMB A COUNTRY? ALSO BOMB A COUNTRY BACK TO THE STONE AGE AS A RESPONSE TO CROSS-BORDER KIDNAPPINGS? DECLARE COUNTRIES INDEPENDENT OUTSIDE OF THE UN?

The West and Georgia got what they deserved. The West only respects raw military power. You can only push Russia so much before they punch you back.

This is not Russian ambition about increasing their power, but a reaction and a defence against US aggression.

If we want to avoid conflict with Russia it is important to understand them. Are they an evil empire looking to wage their aggression upon the world to fight against freedom and democracy or should try to see it from their perspective instead of the propaganda dominating the media?

What options have we left Russia with?

Gorbachov said that Russia has been seeking partnership and friendship with the west since the end of the cold war. The United States has had one objetive, to increase their influence and control Eurasia to ensure lasting American dominance the region.

Since the end of the cold war, the west has expanded NATO toward the east, built US army closer and closer to Russian borders, buidling rocket shield to gain first strike capabilities, manipulated Ukrainian and Georgian elections (coup) to put in pro-american governments to fight Russian interests, bombed Serbia, decleared illegal independence for Kosovo to gain another puppet state, converted NATO from a defence alliance to a weapon against Russia, and arm Georgia to the teeth and support their genocide on Russians in Osetia. As Putin asked in Munic, what are all these US army bases and rocket shield doing at their borders and why is US insisting to be the dominant power in Causcus, far away from the United States.

Why has US poured so much into the Georgian army the last four years and why is CIA so heavily funded operating in Georgia?

US has moved far beyond breaking international law on a daily basis with torture facillties, Guatanamo Bay, regime change, invading sovereign states, United States is now also involved in ethnic cleansing by allowing their satelite state Georgia commit genocide against the Russian minority.

How far will us Europeans go to defend the US aggression toward Russia? Europeans are the main ally for the US to continue their imperial expantion to the east.

US tactics were meant to leave Russia isolated, weakened and humilitaed. The question is: who is the aggressor and what options are we leaving for Russia, for their survival?

Europeans are allowing US to bring warfare into space with the rocket shield and starting a new cold war on European soil, the only country trying to build good relations with our neighbour in the east is Germany and they only get critisism from US for it.

Russia is only met with hostilities in the west, what is in their best interest is to sabotage the aggressive US weapons closing to their borders and seek new allies in either China, former soviet states and middle east. The rocket shield must be met with a increase in nuclear weapons.

The "US aid" to Georgia now comes in the form of war ship and war planes.

Russia rememberes Hitler closing on to their borders and they lost 27 million people defeating him, thinking that they will fall over and surrender to US aggression now is unlikely. If we keep treating Russia as an enemy then they will become it...

It has been stated that Russia cannot employ its 'cold-war' tactics of the 1960's, but the same can be said to the U.S. the days of the 'big-stick' policies are gone. The poor foreign relations that exist between the U.S and the world is mainly because they seek to pit one nation against another and in this case they promised the Georgian President much more than they could deliver. They need to support developing nations but not at the expense of damaging relations with long-standing and influential nations. President Bush, not only in this crisis, but Iraq, Iran and other foreign hotspots, has consistently proven himself to be an incompetent diplomat, who does not play well with others!!!!!

Easy for you to draw conclusions about what the U.S. and/or NATO will do. You can't even insert the possiblitly of appeasement into your appeasing commentary. Gimme a break. Sounds like the same old "well...what can we do about it clear over there?". Heil Hitler! We have options you haven't even considered..grow a set.

About the 2008 Oscars, stereotypes, and naivete in realpolitik

Since the begining of the Georgia´s botched agression into South Ossetia, Georgia president Mikhail Saakashvili has displayed an Oscar winning performance, portraying himself as the oppressed, helpless weak goverment, against the Russian bear.
This is a stereotype, that is likely to resound in most european countries, and stir a remembrance of the Soviet Union.
Also you cannot fail to notice, that meanwhile all messages and statements from the Russian side are mainly in russian, their native language, Mikheil Saakashvili has always appeared in the media speaking English. Coincidence, or a deliberate attempt to empatyze with the US and the EU countries?
It is easier to take sides with the English speaking, nice on TV Georgian guy, than with the coarse unintelligible Russian speaking Medvedev.
Are the Americans, and europeans so blind to not notice that they are being played, or are they in the play.
Everytime I see Mikheil Saakashvili in TV, the more I´m convince he is playing a part worth of 2008 Oscars.
You may not like Russia, you may not like the coarse soud of Russian language to the English speaking masses, but as in the movie american Beauty, please LOOK CLOSER and do not be deceived by false pretenses and actoral stances.

This article fails to discuss the real problem. A strong Russia is a dangerous one. What we really are seeing is a resurgent Russia due to economic gains from oil and other resources. Russia has always been angry over the collapse of their influence world wide. Now they are in a position to do something about it. The more the west caters to Russian economic progress through the G-8 or WTO or any partnerships, the more power Russia will exert. The west is shooting themselves in the foot. Not adequately dealing with Russian aggression will only fuel that aggression by cementing their power and influence in the region. The best reaction is to kick Russia out of the G-8, block any WTO membership and proceed with any indirect economic sanctions possible. People who think appeasing Putin will help are clueless about his character.

Interestingly enough, here you mention that Russia puts a veto a country's NATO membership. What would you say if I remind you that Greece also put a veto on a NATO membership of a country called the Republic of Macedonia, although it fullfilled all the NATO criteria, unlike Georgia. Yes we are talking of double standards, maybe even triple standards, here. Ones posed by the EU, ones posed by the US and yet another ones posed by Russia.
Sometimes diplomacy, where only the great ones don't get hurt is not a diplomacy. It is coercive approach, and Russia just did it. Yes, it also had an excuse. But who condemned Greece and the rest of EU for vetoing Macedonia, a country of 2 milion people in the middle of the Balkans over a name issue. This shows that EU is both inefficient and slow in making decision and anticipating moves. The same President Sarkozy tells a sovereign country to change its name. This is unheard of, and then we are wondering of EU diplomacy.
Yes, the Macedonians also say, where was NATO at the summit in Bucharest to invite us, but unfortunatelly due to Greeces internal political crisis, all the NATO members agreed, that Macedonia should first change its name and then, only then it would get into the loop for membership. The story of Georgia is a sad one, but it is not Russia that is to blame. Everybody by now is aware of its re-emergnce as a great power, and they might as well show it. Germany and France do not have the military might nor the potentail to match it, unlike the US. But, at the same time the US is pragmatic enough not to "rattle with more than plastic swords" due to other hot subjects globaly. This is a cat and a mouse game, but the dog is asleep.
Also what France and Germany are after is probably cheaper gas from Russia, and they would probably keep quiet if this happens even to the Ukraine. Double standards are the name of the game in the 21st century, unfortunatelly and there is a lot of perfidity in the diplomacy lately, maybe just too much.

FINALLY A COUNTRY, THAT IS 'NOT' AFRAID OF U.S.A, AND IN RESPECT CAN EASILY KICK U.S.A's 'derrier' IN A MAJOR CONFLICT!

I FIND IT AMUSING THAT THE BIGGEST 'WAR CRIMINAL, TERRORIST' OF THE WORLD: GEORGE W BUSH IS TELLING "RUSSIA WHAT TO DO: OR NOT TO OCCUPY, OR NOT TO DO THIS" AFTER 8 YEARS OF: RAPE OF LITTLE GIRLS IN IRAQ, MURDER OF FAMILIES IN IRAQ, AND DEATH AND DESTRUCTION OF ARABS IN IRAQ, ALL ORDERED, AND APPROVED BY THE EVIL -DOER OF THE WORLD: GEORGE W BUSH!!!

I HOPE 'SOMEBODY' GIVES GEORGE W BUSH A 'TASTE OF HIS OWN MEDICINE' AND RUSSIA, IS THE ONE WHO CAN!

GO RUSSIA!

Why is there nothing mentioned about the fact that Georgian forces started bombing the citizens of Tskhinvali? Why isn't anyone mentioning that the Saakashvili regime gave the green light to bomb the city? How about all the people killed by the Georgians? They are just like the Russian army in Chechnya, and no one blinks an eye. I am an American living in Moscow and I am disappointed by the double standards.
So, Kosovo can secede from Serbia, because they don't want to be part of it, but South Ossetia and Abkhazia (who never really belonged in Georgia in the first place until the Soviets gave them away as a gift to the Georgian Soviet Socialist Republic) cannot? Why? How can one explain this?

The Georgian forces started to bomb not only the city, but also the Russian peacekeepers. What did you expect? For them to sit around and surrender like the Dutch did in Serbia when Milosevic ran them over and let another full scale massacre happen?

The Georgians hate the Ossetians and the Abkhazians as much as the Ossetians and Abkhazians hate them. So, why force them to live together? Politicians seem to not pay any attention to history.

The West is being stubborn and obtuse in its approach to this conflict. Russia is not the US to go into another country and establish a puppet government like the US did in Iraq and Afghanistan and other countries, to include Georgia.

Please consider doing a report about the atrocities committed during these days of war by the Georgians. They shot women and children and had them trapped in their basements for days.

If there were a similar situation with the US, the US would start bombing any sovereign nation to defend its citizens, but according to the international community Russia cannot do that, because... well, I don't know why, just because they can't. Stupid!

If Georgia so belongs in the EU and in NATO, then let it become a part of it. Let it prosper and become a great country to live in, then the people of Abkhazia and Ossetia will want to be part of Georgia themselves. But if you start bombing and killing their children and old people, then no one will ever want to join them.

Very sad reading indeed...

One thing is that Russia`s vast propaganda machine is obviously working on the western political opinion as I sense in this comment by Mr. Oakley (as well as in some of his earlier analysis)...

Indeed for most of people born outside the former USSR it is really hard to imagine that the whole body of state controlled mass media in Russia can be delivering claims on georgian atrocities completely without any real grounds, even more, blaming Georgians for the very crimes that russian forces are committing against georgian population.

It is really hard to imagine someone being able to lie to that extent, calling black white and white black, invading you and calling you aggressor, shooting at you, bombing you and calling you the murderer. Hard to believe someone possibly being that shameless, isn´t it Mr. Oakley?

Well, you simply have to have experienced this on your own skin in years behind iron curtain in order to believe IT`S PERFECTLY POSSIBLE!

Maybe that`s why the Baltic nations and Eastern Europeans seem to have much better understanding of the affairs and are far more immune to russian propaganda.

The other, even more troubling feeling is given by that short political memory western world seems to have. Quite surprising from CNN political editor not being able to see that this crisis here is not about choosing between some seemingly insignificant "four million affronted Georgians" or assured Russian cooperation with the rest of the world on global matters. When this Georgia is finished,eliminated, there will be many other Georgias in this neverending trade for russian "cooperation" and "friendship".

What world is witnessing once again is rising of a new empire of lie and evil. Sacrificing "insignificant" nations like Georgians, being buddies with the bully will not stop it from going on with it`s plans. This may cost the civilized world new decades of Stalinfashioned gangster state neighborhood. Having once again to live side by side with an ugly giant threatening the world peace and order, cherishing most obscure regimes around the globe, polluting, spreading arms and weapon technologies, holding the world on the edge of global war for years and years to come.

The sad thing is, world never learns the lesson...

why do states mislead their citizens and the rest of the world by giving such information. if u need Iran go and get it, but dont mess with Russia, US image is already funny enough over there.... Georgia sucks )

I would want Bush to Use his brain rather than His emotions. Bush didn't invade South ossetia, Bush didn't Approve the Invasion Neither did any NATO nation. Bush infact Warned them specifically not to try it. The stupid president of Georgia stepped on a land mine and it simply detonated. America should be careful of aligning itself with some countries. We need to protect ourself from all this rubbish stupid presidents like this pull us into. I dont want the straits of hormuz nor the black sea nor the georgian sea channel nor the one in abhakazia and azberjain closed for a week neither do i want Iran to be nuclearly armed. We don't need a Cold war again China would close American factories in its territory No production outside America and with oil at 15 dollar a gallon we would know what it meas to support rogues like saashkivili. We have only 3% of the oil in the world Russia has 26% yet we consume 25% of the worlds oil. so how do we match up are we thinking of going green tomorrow. We need to be careful

"""A Russian soldier flashes a victory sign from his truck on a road near Gori in Georgia."""

it's not russian soldier....

Open eyes and search for the truth

Cool propaganda. Where is information from Osetia refuges?
Reading letters like this I am understand that US never stops Cold War.
Every one in the world knows that for US International law is nothing – so why you teach everyone?

I do not trust CNN news now, after their outrageous lie about situation in South Osetia ...

Sorry me my English.
Is it possible that president of democracy country such as Georgia gives the order to attack sleeping city by heavy weapons? Result of this Saakashvili order 1500 civilian dead.
This is democracy by Saakashvili in Georgia! Enjoy!

Very liked your phrase 'passport holders'. I think it is better to say citizen or its nation. If you ask Ossetins they will confirm the statement.
And of course all parts of the conflict has its own profits. All..but Georgians. I don't understand why people there are so blind about their leader. saakashvilli must think about economic growth of its country, wealth of his nation, safety of people living there. And what he thinks about now? What can give him america? Weapons? Consultation?Maybe some beliefs in better future?Or even military security?Ask georgians, what will they prefer: a bird in the hand or two in the bush?
America is far from Georgia. It cares about its own interests. Its actions during the conflict showed its real face – nothing but words.
So next step will make georgians themselves. Direction will see...

Georgia fell into a well-prepared Russian trap. This was planned down to the last detail (including objectives, timelines and the wording of press statements) many months in advance. Our diplomatic/intelligence agencies should have warned them off. Perhaps we tried and they wouldn't listen?

Yes, the US is showing a double standard, but so is Russia (ie Chechnya). This is where the EU needs to stand tall. If only they had a military to back it up.

Americans started the whole thing and Americans will have to deal with the consequences...

The only thing I regret is that young Russian soldiers have been dying in order to restore peace. Russia should use chemical, biological and nuclear weapon to insure peace. A little bit of that should also be used on the Capitol hill!

Do we wage war against cockroaches?

Your article is cynical from the beginning to the end like all Western policy around the Russia. Osetia and Abhasia were never Georgian territories. Read history further of your nose.

All I have to say is lie when saying that Georgia started this fight.

during week before Georgia started operation Georgian villages in Tskhinvali region was destroyed by artillery. Head of Russian peas keepers Kulakhmetov signed paper saying that it was true and he can do nothing to stop that. What choice Georgia had? Who is aggressor than.

Imagine than Russians will give passport to couple thousand people in your country and will start to "protect them".

Ilia

Georgia will not enter NATO!
USA will not help to her!
Americans cheat!

If USA have admitted the independence of albanisans, why do they object to the independence of Ossetia? Isn'it a politic of double standards? According to Russian Constitution we must protect our citizens no matter where they are, and we did it.

Imagine that in your country, in some region, there are separatists, who start firing at your villages non-stop, killing and wounding people, ruining houses, etc. Despite of your governments several warnings, they don't stop. What country are you, and what president are you, if you don't stop firing within your own borders, and don't use power to stop such violence coming from separatists?

It is really easy to sit in Moscow or USA or other country, making arrogant statements, whether Georgia should have started firing at South Ossetia or not. But when you actually live in Georgia and see bullets flying to you, killing and wounding your friends or family members, than you would have absolutely different opinion about the matter.

Of course war is a horrible thing, and even death of 1 person is a tremendous loss. Though sometimes its inevitable.

Georgian government ceased fire on the first day of the firing, creating a corridor for peaceful civilians to leave the town, but they refused, because Russian and Ossetian forces never stopped firing and people were afraid to use the corridor.

For those who don't know, Ossetian and Abkhazian citizens were given Russian passports by breaking law. Russians were preparing ground to justify if they ever had to enter Georgian territory. When heavy fire started in Ossetia, peacekeepers should have understood that there was no place for them any more to stand there. So it is no Georgian government's fault if they stayed there and got under fire.

And please: everyone who make ignorant statements about Georgian history or geography. Please read enough info and make your statemetns only afterwards. Ossetia and Abkhazia regions were never given as a gift to Georgia during soviet times. It always was part of Georgian republic, and Georgians, Ossetians and Abkhaz people always lived together peacefully. It was during USSR, when Stalin gave status of autonomies to who regions, and with this action he put a timer bombs in the region, which noone knew when it would blow up. It was only russia turned on the timer on the bombsl; it was russa which fomented hatred and conflict between these people, by giving them military or moral support.

For those Russian who come against Georgia. Why don't you give indepence to those autonomies who want to be apart from Russia? Chechnia? Dagestan? or many others. When you are talking about genocides, please take a look back to your recent history in Chechnia. You don't even mercy your own people (Nordost, Beslan). How can you mercy other people?

To conclude. Of course what Georgian government had to do in Ossetia was horrible, but there was no other way out left. But what Russia did was absolutely beyond borders. They know it, but they did this, because their imperialist intentions will never abandon them. They will never get used to idea that they will never conquer lands belonging to other people any more. Georga W. Bush is also a tiran and man killer, no doubt about it, but what he did to aid Georgia (finally), is a clear message to Russia that they must stop somewhere.

That was the Bolshevik way. Old Habit, hard to break. Expert in mis-information and propaganda, out-of-this world excuses, and incredible lies. With what happend to Georgia, other countries will have a second tought in aligning with the West, especially the USA. They nowhere to be found and will only shower you with rhetoric sympathy. Afraid of losing billions of dollars in investment in Russia?

:)))
Why there is only one side of the conflict described here?

Lots of pictures from the Georgia, showing destruction of the civilian houses(the strikes were to the military objects and no civilians as cnn says was harmed), interview of the georgian doctor in the well equipped hospital, lots of speeches from Saakashvili (by the way why he delivers speeches to his people in english?:) lots of Georgian people knows russian but almost nobody knows english...) But please tell me why there was no news directly from Osetia? Why no one tells that war started for about 20 hours before russian troops entered Osetia? Why no one shows here that about a week before the assault Osetia told everybody that Georgia will attack Osetia and evacuated kids from Tshinwali(by the way, directly at this time Saakashvili told to the world that he "...will never use force against my own nation in Osetia...") Why no one shows here quotations from russian news and internet blogs? Why no one shows here that from night 07-08 lots of e-mails sms and calls went from Osetia to Russia, and the text was "...help us! we are killed by georgians!...". It was before the communication was closed by georgian troops. I saw message like this on the phone of my osetian colleague.(In the middle of the day all the news and the blogs sounded like "...Russia! why you betrayed your citizens again..." What should Russia do...? Why no one shows pictures from Tshinvali hospital(why the basement – because hospital was bombarded by the georgian troops when they attacked Tshinvali)(by the way in the Tshinvaly hospital there was one wounded guy that told russian journalists that he is american journalist and his colleague was killed...) Why no one shows that georgian troops burned church with those who hided inside? Why no one shows that georgian peacekeepers attacked their osetian and russian colleagues instead of trying to keep peace?

The Saakashvili's speech about occupation of Georgia sounds very symphatetic to the western people, but why Russian needs their territory? Fuel transportation??? Russian fuel companies worked working and will work there... and the control of this line belongs to them... Territory of Osetia or Georgia? laughing... there is nothing valuable there except the pipeline...
The only reason of the why russian georgian and american politics argued in the last 5-10 years that Russia don't like when NATO weapons and bases surrounds Russia all over. Will USA be pleased and cheerful if russian military bases will appear on Cuba Hawaii and Mexica...?

Above all the main reason of such heavy actions of Russia(military command wanted to action much harder) that Saakashvili told everybody that he never attack Osetia but denied to sign all russian and osetian peace-keeping documents... and when he told this his troops were deploying fos assault... And he does it after the visit of Mrs Rice... and nobody trusts that he did it without the permission of american government...
(about 120-150 american military specialists in Georgian army headhuarters, some instructors, and there was some information about killed georgian soldiers ... mmm don't know how to say correctly... african birth...mercs or...?)...

this conflict is quite dirty from the both sides as every other conflict... But the main goal of the journalists in to show all sides of the truth
So show it...

Both Putin and Saakashvili should go to jail. They started wars, and that is a crime against humanity. I'm not defending Bush, either.

I find the use of the term "encirclement" appropriate. It's rather synonymous with "containment," the strategy deployed by both the West and the USSR during the Cold War. With the collapse of the Soviet Union, why must the West insist on pursuing such a policy concerning modern Russia?

In my opinion, Russia has every right to feel and believe that double standards do exist on a large number of fronts.

- Very recently, the West recognises Kosovo's independence, against the objections of Russia. The West essentially tells Russia to "button it."
- Russia then supports the independence of two neighbouring provinces, who have declared allegiance to Russia. The West cries foul. Who is the arbiter of fairness, and who determines that the rights of one are not available to others?
- England provides sanctuary to a billionaire who's stated he'd be willing to finance an Orange revolution in Russia. He's been tried and convicted in absentia for numerous crimes against the Russian state. England refuses to extradite him.
- England raises the stakes of hypocrisy further by demanding that the Russians extradite a citizen accused of assassinating a former KGB officer in London. England has even gone so far as to insist that Russia change its constitution to permit the extradition of the Russian citizen.
- Would the US or England ever permit an intelligence officer of the CIA or MI5 be sent to trial in Russia? Even if charged with murder? Would the US or UK ever consider changing their constitutions on the insistence of another nation? Never, on all counts.
- The US insists on missile systems installations in Poland and the Czech Republic. Russia offers use of its territory as an installation site, but the US rejects the offer. Frozen from the discussion, Russia then indicates that it will target these facilities, and amazingly, the West cries foul once again.
- Would the US permit Russian weapons systems in Cuba? It didn’t before. What will the response be if Russian weapons are installed in Venezuela? If so, and if the US protests, how will it reconcile the inequity in its installations near Russian borders?

An article was written and published in the past two days by Richard Holbrooke, former US Ambassador to the United Nations. In the article, he accused Russia of pursuing a policy of “regime change” in Georgia. He indicated that such a practice was unacceptable in the 21st Century. Clearly he hasn’t communicated this to the current US administration. Former administrations were also unaware that this was unacceptable. The US and its allies have been active in replacing heads of state in the Middle East, Indochina, Latin America and even Europe over the past 50 years.

Yesterday, Condoleeza Rice and George Bush indicated that Russian “standing and stature” in the world will worsen as a result of its recent attacks in Georgia. The US hasn’t the credentials to lecture nations on moral authority, adherence to domestic or international law or respect for the sovereignty of nations

Was Russia’s response to Georgia’s first strike disproportionate? Certainly. Did it make a point? Certainly. Will the West get the point? Certainly not.

What was the point? All nations pursue policies which protect and serve their national interests. Are these policies always popular in the wider international system? No. But they are accepted, and institutions are are in place to maintain order and a semblance of fairness on a global scale. Russia’s preservation of its national interests will not always be popular either, but it insists on the same level of fairness when judged by the international community. If not, it will act independently and without permission or regret. In this respect, Russia has modeled its current behaviour on the grand masters of unilaterlism. It’s been said that “we dislike most in others what we see in ourselves.” That’s the point.

mohan padmanagara, you are right.

I read several articles from CNN web site and see that CNN write almost all texts from Geogian point of view. CNN show destructions in Gory, but didn't show Tskhinvali city, which is fully destroyed by Georgians – 2000 people were killed.

You can ask yourself why Osetian civilian move to Russia (not to Georgia territory) and you fill find out who started this aggresiion.

You can also compare Kosovo and Osetia. USA name osetian people as separatists.

So, USA lost this short war on Caucasus, and Bush try to clear itself by reversing the truth.

It's at least cinical to hear from Russian top officials accusations toward Georgia in Genoside after what they did to their people in Chechnia. Didn't they?
If we do wrong things there are institutions which deel with such a kind of cases, let them take decision.

2 000? may be 20 000? HRW does doubts anounced figures by Russia's propaganda of those killed in Tskhinvali, though we regret for each of our citizen.(http://www.hrw.org/english/docs/2008/08/13/georgi19607.htm)

And how come here Poti, Batumi, Kakheti and other Gerogian cities wich were bombed as well?

and I was wondering why Russia has "bad" relations only with Georgia and "good" with all other countries such are the Ukrine, Moldova, Lithuenia, Latvia, Estonia, Poland... Oh, parodn me, I forgot Cuba, which supported Russia's initiative at National Security Council Sesion. Great succes!

Bryan,
If it was just well-prepared Russian trap, than today Russian army should be staying in Tbilisi and seeking Saakashvili in near mountains.
But they now going out to Osetia...

I think along with GEORGIA , CNN and western media has been the clear looser in this conflict because of its one sided jornalism. Me as a foreigner living in Russia expected CNN to be honest and biased TV Channel reporting the facts ( on ground and hostorical). CNN has not bothered to mention the real conflict of SOUTH OSSETIA. People in South Ossetia want freedom just as other people suppressed by their regimes want. It is same like KOSOVO gaining independence from former YUGOSLAVIA or BALTIC COUNTRIES from USSR.
Russia has acted very decisively and rightly ( just as Europe did in Balkans ) in this conflict and should be appreciated for its efforts.
Why doesn't CNN stop praising Mr.Sakashvili and request their President MR. BUSH to be do more in DARFUR where many people are being killed every day ( in any case there is also some OIL there which should make Mr.Bush and Mr.Cheney very happy to start a war)

Have you folks ever thought of one possibility ? That chums Putin and Bush formulated a plot to keep their clans in power for a long time to come ? That this could be a sham war, a sham confrontation between Rus and US simply to ressurect the old Russian fear so deeply ingrained in the American mindset ? Why ? To have McCain elected, you fools ! Ain't that obvous ? Or you find it too nasty, or didn't you know how nasty the Big Game is ?
They were eating lobster and fishing together and plotting like brethrens ! By invading Irak Bush saved Russia from bankruptcy making oil prices skyrocket, and now the Czar is retributing the favor with their sham menace.It's all theater !
A Russia-haunted US electorate will elect McCain and then all this Caucasus fabrication will blow over with some slick diplomacy. The Czar and the Republican clan will remain in power. Goodbye my dear fools, makes me feel bad to have to patronize you about the obvious truth !

on August, 8 Georgia begins assault of South Ossetia the capital. Ckhinvali massed «Hail» is fired from howitzers and settings, Georgian VVS, tanks and infantry is then connected. The Georgian special troops shoot peaceful habitants and Russian peacemakers. The amount of victims exceeds 1,5 thousands. Ten of thousands of refugees is directed to North Ossetia. To Sonth Ossetia subdivisions of the 58th Russian army enter for the reflection of aggression.

on August, 9 To parts of 58th army subdivisions of the 76th Pskovskoy division of VDV are connected. Together with ossetic forces they free Ckhinvali. Retreating, Georgian soldiers pelt grenades basements, where peaceful habitants are hidden. Parliament of Georgia enters in a country a martial law on 15 days.

on August, 10 handed MFA of Georgia the Russian consul note about a cease-fire. However continued Georgian forces are by fires. A commander is injured by a 58th army lieutenant-general Anatoliy Khrulev. Special correspondent got a wound in a hand. Russian VVS was lost by two airplanes, including a strategic bomber That-22. To Sonth Ossetia the first party of humanitarian load arrived from MINISTRY of emergency measures of Russia.

on August, 11 Georgia continues the fire of South Ossetia by VVS. Michael Saakashvili signs a decree about a cease-fire. 9 agents of the Georgian special services are declared in Russia about detention. They are suspected of preparation of acts of terrorism.

on August, 12 Dmitry Medvedev declares about completion of peacemaking operation. To calm Saakashvili the presidents of Poland, Ukraine, Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia fly in Tbilisi. The Abhazia troops are ousted by Georgian forces from Kodorskogo of canyon.

Become the names of the Georgian terrorists are known. According to news of FSB, managed them zamnachal'nika Managements of external secret service of Georgia Kherksladze. Last names some other: Khachirov, Imerdishvili, Turkoshvili, Alkhanashvili. One of them conveied a mine for the feasance of act of terrorism.

Anton Ivanov "This is democracy by Saakashvili in Georgia! Enjoy!" What about Putyn's democracy in Chechnya??? Killing half of chechen nation. Not allowing reporters in the conflict zone. Russian double standard! Enjoy!!!

Guys

What do you think of the role of Azerbaijan in all this? Azerbaijan did not say anything? Are they a poppet of Russia?

Before I thought that propaganda is a baby of former USSR. But after this war I understood that CNN and BBC is a tool for Americans and Brits. Nobody interested in how this war started, when, and who started it ? Shame on BBC and CNN

Vova_Tbilisi,

you should change Saakashvili and you will live better. Saakashvili sell Georgia to USA. What you expect from Russia for that?

Do not mess Chechnia and Osetia. In Chechnia was the war against bandits, which were also supported from USA. In Osetia Georgians start to bomb Tskhinvali and kill civilianz.

You shoul understand that USA try to stagger Caucasus because of its geopolitical importance.

About HRW... You can see head-office address and maybe you understand what point of view the will support (such as CNN).
New York Office
New York, NY 10118-3299 USA

http://g-commerce.ru/2.gif

Gabor,

Do not tell stupid things about killing of the half of chechen nation...

The US seems to have chosen the wrong puppet in Georgia – Saakashvili. It is no secret that much of the world, including Europe, holds the US foreign policy in suspicion. From WMDs in Iraq, Abu Ghraib to a suspect-looking coup attempt on Hugo Chavez of Venezuela, only their economic and military might stops the Europeans (especially!) from open confrontation with them. The Russians on the other hand seem bolder in taking matters in their own hand. Emotional US puppets on Russia's doorsteps serve as an opportunity, rather than a threat, for the traditional chess grandmasters of the world, to make serious moves and ascert themselves in the region and the world. No one, not even the US, would be convinced that someone building missile sheilds arround your country is protecting themselves against another enemy! My humble submission to the great powers of the world, the US, Russia, China, etc, is that realistic coexistence rather than economic and military jostling will ensure peace and prosperity. Unrealistic foreign policies, insatiable lusts for energy and water and unnecessary intervention in domestic and/or regional matters fuels arms races and then conflicts. World powers owe it to us the citizens of this world to ensure stability, freedom and security.

I think, it right to say that Gerorgian power proved that NATO could be misused by confrontation with Russia.

What the Georgian preident initiated is dangerous for the world community. Atacking Ossetiya and asking for the shield by NATO against Russia he wanted to escalate the relationship to Russia what he in principle achieved because CNN and other mass medias reported the wrong picture that Russie firts invaded to Georgia and it is not true.

Thank you CNN you show us your right face and contribute to the confrontation with Russia!

Picture fron Britain Independent shows real situation

http://www.independent.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00043/cartoon110808_43676a.jpg

Dear Americans. Your government washes you brains. That is told you in your news is a lie. Russia did not attack Georgia. Georgia attacked Ossetia and Russian peacemakers. Georgia will stand a trial.

Russian occupans are still bombing Poti and are standing on the Gori Road and and entering additional technics from Russian side

NOTE: This comment is for Robin Oakley…not necessarily just to be posted as a comment on the blog. Firstly, let me mention that I always appreciate your analysis of and commentary about European political affairs.

There is one aspect about the fighting that erupted between Georgia and Russia which seems not to have gotten much attention…at least so far.

Surely it’s not a secret there has been close cooperation between the US DOD and Georgian military forces in terms of rebuilding / strengthening Georgia’s military defenses. For a very small country Georgia dispatched a disproportionately large contingent of “coalition forces” to Iraq. In exchange, the US has been providing various types of military training and assistance (meaning military assistance in Georgia, not just for Georgian forces in Iraq) including new military hardware. I have also heard reports that Israelis have been (quietly) involved in this effort as well (e.g. I recollect a report a few weeks ago about an unmanned Georgian military reconnaissance ‘drone’ aircraft being shot down over South Ossetia…the drone aircraft was of Israeli origin, the type used by the IDF to keep an eye on things in the West Bank and Gaza.

It was reported on CNN at the outset of the conflict that there were around 2,000 American citizens in Georgia in total, and that steps were being taken to evacuate them from the country, whether by land convoy to Turkey or otherwise. Undoubtedly a good number of these citizens were either civilian personnel working under DOD contract, or US military advisors involved in training / strengthening the Georgian military. There were probably Israelis as well. That’s a pretty large number of “eyes and ears” on the ground.

There is no indication that Saakashvili sought / obtained a “green light” from Washington before launching his disastrous military incursion into South Ossetia. At the same time, however, it would seem highly unlikely that none of large contingent of US advisors or military liaison staff at the embassy would not have picked up some sort of signal (at various levels) indicating Georgian military forces were mobilizing for some purpose…at least a ‘smell’ that something was afoot. It’s just hard to believe that US representatives had no inkling whatsoever as to what Saakashvili was intending to do…before he actually did it. Had they gotten such an inkling surely it would have been reportedly immediately to the DOD or State in Washington.

Had this been reported one would have expected either Condi Rice at State or Stephen Hadley at the White House to get on the phone immediately to Saakashvili …telling him (in no uncertain terms) not to be so foolish as to do exactly what Putin was hoping he’d do…giving Putin the excuse he needed to respond disproportionately to solidify the Russian grip on the two break away regions and to crush the reconstituted Georgian military…not only teaching them a lesson but also sending a signal to all other former Soviet-bloc countries that “the big bear is back” and is menacing the neighborhood.

When the US / EU went ahead with recognizing the independence of Kosovo over the strong objections of Serbia and Russia, Putin warned very clearly that this action on the part of the West would have direct implications for the situation in South Ossetia and Abkhazia. Therefore, US, EU and Georgia leadership should have been extremely mindful of this threat, and be on guard. Yet Saakashvili …very stupidly…was allowed to take the Russian bait.

QUESTION: Was the Bush administration more complicit (than we have been led to believe so far) in the decision of Saakashvili to launch his disastrous misadventure into South Ossetia…or were US representatives on the ground in Georgia and in Washington at the DOD and State Department really totally asleep at the switch? It would seem, it has to be one or the other… Perhaps CNN’s correspondents at the US Department of Defense, the State Department and at the White House might delve into this under-reported aspect of the story.

I think is all politics.
Russian want to used South Ossetia as excused for Georgia.
the russian is interested on South Ossetia becouse they can gain somethings for them self.
and used South Ossetia as instrument for there benifit.

Dear Russians,

I am not American, neither Georgian. I am just a Central European, Hungarian. We also know Russia real face. What should we expect from Russians? Invasions, raising ethnic tensions, dividing small nations.

2 Gabor
But as will you comment on that Georgian soldiers killed peacemakers and peaceful habitants?

With so many declarations from Russians I still can not see any objective responce to one simple question: what is the difference between S.Osetia and Chechnya or Abkhazia and Chechnya? Why Russians have a right to defeat integrity of their land and Georgians no?

Brau, you're a complete and utter moron.

Russia had already become a global economic force, well before the 2002 invasion of Iraq. It didn't require a war to boost oil prices, and what the hell kind of an idiot would agree to the terms you propose?

Muppet.

Saakashvilli is just U.S. puppet! Why don't you understand it? Russian people and people of Georgia are friends for many centuries. But U.S. try to adjust them against each other. Results of elections in Georgia are garbled with help of Washington, all telechannels are and even Internet under control of goverment (zone under ".ru" domen is blocked!!!). Washington force georgians to hate russians, using mental werapons! Saakashvilli promised Bush that will return rebellious provinces, after that Georgia could enter into NATO. Why you don't write what the USA deliver werapon to Georgia? That their experts from NATO trained georgian soldiers? That Georgian invasion to Ossetia – is the order from Washington?

The notion that Georgia 'started' this war by its actions last week in South Ossetia is exactly the kind of simplistic assessment that one may expect from many a news media except CNN. Russia urgently needs to consider why virtually ALL of its former Soviet allies (Poland, Hungary, Lithuania, etc, and now Ukraine and Georgia) are wasting no time in joining or trying to join the EU and NATO? There must be a reason and Russia's bullying behaviour in Georgia has provided it!

Peaceful habitants are only peasants on Putyn's chessboard. They are the excuse of Putyn. He doesn't care their lifes. The more deaths the more he can show the world and prove his action. It's about the oilpipe line that he doesn't control. That's the point nothing else.

"it is not going to throw away all that to please four million affronted Georgians"
Do I have to smile at this?! Be calm. All of you will be fine. I’m repeating – All of you will be fine and warm in freezing winter but avoid your noses from the smell of blood coming from Russian Gas. It’s a shame to talk here not to please 4 millions of Georgians or do you want us to be 2 millions, or 1 million?! Will you think about us then?!

While any war (killing of people) can not be jutified, this is double standard of USA that they are shedding crocodile tears over Georgia but they destroyed even more civilized (over thousands of years) Iraqi nation.

However, this is blank bulley of USA but they would not dare to intervene directly rather pulled off their so called military trainer from Georgia.

Do you know who is the beneficiary of this war with Georgia (and indirectly with the west)? It's IRAN. The more west press Russia about any of its behaviour, the more Iran benefits. Good Deal! Go Ahead, Iran will produce a nuclear bomb to terrorise USA/Israel, as these nations are doing for other nations. USA and west lost its face in the international outcry!

The truth about who really bombed Tskhinvali needs to be confirmed before placing the blame. If you follow the developments day bay day you will see that when Georgians took over Tskhinvali on day 2 most of the city was intact. Then came the second stage, a heavy Russian bombardment and you know the consequences of that.

I cant understand what are you talking about. the only reason for russia to attack georgian forces is georgian aggression. and russian forces have an opportunity to destroy tbilisi but the didn't.

Good to see an unbiased article. I was sick of reading all the articles attacking russia elsewhere. The georgian president must have been really foolish to attack like that, what did he think, The US was gonna send him tanks?

There is nothing, nothing about Russia and nothing about Georgia, and of course nothing about democracy protection, declared by the USA. This is again, WAR FOR OIL

and one point more. dear americans, your government deliver 800 georgian troops with arms to the war theatre. thus dont be suprized when russia ask you for contribution as well as georgians!

Please do not forget that Georgians from the beginning of the war and till now have no access to .ru domain and have no Russian television.
This is again to comment Saakashvili´s "democracy". Georgians still think that "Russians started it all", they think that Russians started attacking Tskhinvali etc.
Saakashvili is not a democrat at all, just an crazy show off guy, who has nothing to do in politics!
He can ruin Georgia if this all happens again.
He wants to get a real aid from US and NATO, but this will never happen...
Let us imagine that it happens... than the first who would be majorly injured... I do not want to say more... would be Georgia. This guy is very dangerous ... and especially for the Georgians.
Russians were not delicate, no doubt. They have never been. We all now this. and we all need to live in peace. So Georgians, willing to get back their territories (and confidence of Ossetians and Abkhazians), willing to goin the EU and NATO have to be extremely diplomatic and elegant in all their actions.
They have to be friendly and attentive to the Russians, who saved them once from theTurcs. If they did not help Georgians at those times, Georgia would not be existing right now. It would be a little Turkish province, inhabited with muslims (like some parts of the Georgian land with Laz people (Turcs of Georgian origin.. muslims but still speaking a Georgian dialect).
So it is all a very complx story and for the moment Georgians are misbehaving.

I love both countries: US and Russia and I would like to stop growing confrontation between these two countries. I totally understand reaction of the West demanding Russia to immeidately withdraw its troops from Georgia, but I want US to undertand Russia as well.

Please undestand: this war from Russian side in NOT to protect South Ossetia. This war is NOT to capture Georgia. This war from Russia is to prevent NATO at Russian border.

Russians do not want to see NATO at their border and will fight against it. US and NATO need to understand that NATO is a treat for Russia.

It does not matter if NATO has no intentions to offense Russia. Imagine that China or India has made huge military block with a few other countries and put its troops in Cuba and training Mexican troops... Is it a treat for US? Absolutely yes!!! intentions does not mean anything, they can be changed in one moment, but power, offensive potential means everything. And Russia DOES NOT want to have this potential at its border. Put on the top of it that NATO and US are not the most peacefull entities in the world: NATO has bombed Serbia, US has invaded Iraq with the reason to stop Iraq creating weapons of mass distruction. As we know – no weapons of mass distruction were found. Russia does not want to have such military organization right behind its border – it is a natural desire of normal people, nothing special..

Therefore in these days not only Russians have to make outstanding efforts for assuring peace in the region, but US/NATO leaders as well. US/NATO if they want really to support stability have to tell Geogrians: "Guys, you are not to be included in NATO, there will be no cooperation in military field". And based on this position any other cooperation is possible: humanitarian, democracy improvement. etc. Same thing is to be declared to Ukraine. US needs to revise its intention to provide control over the whole world and stop bringing democracy through military operations or expanding NATO.

I hope my ideas will be understood correctly. Again, I used to live in both countries and love both. The key to eurasian stability is indeed in US-Russia relationships.

Firth Time I say Thank American peoples for support Georgia .Russia is very aggressive and “Barbarous” country . Russia never will be normal civil country .Russia was and will be Barbarous it is True

Russian troops are back to Gori with their colleagues from Osetia and north Caucasus.
Russians either can not controll their own troops or they just do things absolutely inacceptable for the international society.

The USA and Britain are Imperialistic, they are another Nazi Germany, and we all know what it took to stop them. Let Good triumph over evil and let all the good nations work to cripple this new flexing evil. What happened in Ossetia was genocide, ethnic cleansing etc. Bush, one sentence, remember Saddam.

Despite the hype, Russia is far more vulnerable than the frightened Europeans think. It has energy reserves but is in desperate need of investement, technology and has a stunted manufacturing industry and agriculture. Its companies are investing outside Russia (which makes them very vulnerable for any freeze on assets) and has a primitive infrastructure which it cannot afford to improve. It is Saudi Arabia with trees. It's Army is disintegrating; a large portion of its Navy is falling apart; and its missile sytems are a generation out of date. Don't be fooled by the bluster, the Soviets and the Russians are always 75% bluff. It is time the bluff is called.

The USA and Britain are Imperialistic, they are another Nazi Germany, and we all know what it took to stop them. Let Good triumph over evil and let all the good nations work to cripple this new flexing evil. What happened in Ossetia was genocide, ethnic cleansing etc. Bush, one sentence, remember Saddam.

Does CNN stand for Club of Neo Nazis

Dear Americans
If USA , especially, and EU will continue to tolerate Russia to restore the former Soviet Union, You will be soon hear around talk only russian!
I am romanian and I don't like to hear russian!

Dear Russians. Your crufty government washes you brains, inc Russians media. George did not attack Russia. Russian peacemakers attacked George.
Why are relations so bad with all other countries such are the Ukrine, Moldova, Lithuenia, Latvia, Estonia, Poland?

The guy in the picture doesn't even nearly look russian. Beards aren't allowed by the russian army regulations, and the uniform is well...not russian style as well. This guy looks more like georgian. And besides, why didn't they take the picture of the whole truck, or at least so that it's number plates were visible? That's just another hoax, i guess...

I will not say to much...
Just about question of Cosovo and South Osetia...

USA give Cosovo independence... Not take them like one more State in USA...

Russia all time say that Osetian and Afkhazian want live in Russia... He not try to give them independence... He want this territory see in Russia...

Did you starting seeing diference???

And you shoud understant that Russian never ever will give South Osetian and Afkhazia independence... Becose then North Osetia will ask independence and rejoin South Osetian and make one Osetian Republic.... If you little bit know RUSSIAN you will understand that this nevere ever Happend...

Russians should be taught a lesson

To Gabor For Putin deaths of Ossetians are just excuse for attack but for Geogians it's just a little price for "Independence war against Russian Bear" and their bombardment of Tshinvali was just the part of "The Mean Putin's Plan", am I right? It's really a very good plot for a book...
P.S. One my friend, who lives in Georgia, told me that they were payed about 6$ for coming to the meeting, which took place on the central square of Tbilisi the day before yesterday (it was attended by presidents of Ukraine, Poland and 3 more coutries), and some extra money for waving flags.. So who is trying to prove his actions to the West even using such kind of methods?
P.P.S. Sorry for my English if it's not quite good.

to Kirill: One my friend, who lives in Russia, told me that you were payed about 60$ for coming to the here, so who is trying to prove his actions to the East even using such kind of methods?

Gabor,
"Putyn ... It’s about the oilpipe line that he doesn’t control. "

Well, Bush on the other hand has stocked up on oil somewhat with his enforcement of democracy in Iraq.

"Chechnija ... Russian double standard! Enjoy!!!"
Yes, it is.
But so is the US standard Kosovo vs. Ossetia.
Yet you probably were not shouting "dual standard!" in that situation.
Hmm, may be because that would make you unpopular in the eyes of great democracy ?

US pushes in / intervenes whereever it wants / feels like, and does not have to care even about what other nations think (why should they? there are hardly any that can matter against it).
Yet, you don't speak about well known "American real face", that is showed many times.

Media should reflect honestly, unbias and factually in reporting world conflicts with good interest for all mankind at heart.

It was a good reporting, with equally good intention to mirror Global event fairly.

I feel sorry for all the casualties in this futile war. I also feel outrageous.
Again Russia seems to be able to continue its arrogant, aggressive, imperialistic and, admittedly, intelligent behavior without having to pay a price. Tallinn, Chechnia, Trans-Dniestr are most recent conflicts. And now Georgia. Not to mention all the crimes in the Soviet times for which no prosecutions has been raised (small example:who was responsible for the killings in Riga and Lithuania, 1991?) and "vergangenheitsbewältigung" done. Yes I do mean it. Russia is not Soviet Union but it has inherited its legal and political tradition. With state monopoly in relevant media it also can manipulate common man as it wishes. Strong hand has always been well respected. But western leaders and citizens should not get fooled.
It is obvious that since 1992 there has been enough time to make arrangements for the status of Georgian separatist areas. But it hasn´t been in everyone´s interest. One good guess is smuggling. Considering the busy but strict and bureaucratic border control between Finland and Russia one can only imagine how much Russian-Georgian border leaks to the benefit of someone(s)...
Georgian policy has maybe not been very clever but Russian policy has been irresponsible.

Before commenting on Russia-Georgian crises, the Russians first of all shall remember what they did in Chechnya!!! After slaughtering the people in Chechnya and erasing the region under the aegis of restoring territorial integrity, it is ridiculous that Russians even have the right to give their comments, that are based on ignorance and cynicism.

Hello to all,

You know what?

Many many years ago, there was no Southern Ossetia. The land was called Georgia. Then this nation came from what now is called North Ossetia and settled there (where now is South Ossetia). The Georgians allowed them to live there, for they never drive away any of the nation that comes to live in Georgia. Stalin gave these people autonomy into the Georgian land, as he gave away Sochi (Once Georgian land) to Russians, like it was his own to give.
Anyway, do not see all these from only one point of view. If you are Russians you are with Russia and if you are Georgian you are with Georgia. It is always easy to comment from outside. What every one of you would do if he was a president of any county of the world?
Do not judge so easily.

I want to take your attention to the following fact, that was never appeared in press:
MORE THAN 800 000 of ethnik Georgians live in Russia (and this is only official information according to the results of year 2003). This is a fifth part of all ethnic Georgians in the world!
I am half-Georgian and live in Moscow all my life. With full responsibility I can state that amount of Georgians in Moscow increased greatly since Saakashvili came to power. For a example in my company (city building) the amount of Georgians increased from 200 to 650 among workers. And all of this people want to have Russian citizenship, because they says that it is very difficult to live in Georgia right now.
So you think these people wants to immigrate to agressor? Are they idiots?
Please remember Russian and Georgian history: our nations were united long before USSR and this alliance was peaceful.
And I don't know any Russian who wants to annex Georgia lands in such way and in that costs.

Think about it!
Sorry for my English (had no practice for a long time).

Kirill: It is usual practice of western social technologies, when people in poor countries get money for coming into the meetings and demonstrations. My friends from Ukraine told me about similar facts when "orange revolution" has happened. Georgia isn't democratic country... All, what shows western TV, is only fiction of democraty

Its a well written article!
But I want to bring the attention that how can US dictate to Russia like this! And I think what Russia did is correct to some extent....I am totally against with the unipolar world which just more or less follows only what US concerned and they are just concerned about them and their allies....
What I infer is this that Russia just lacks in diplomacy and they have to work on it because when US attacks any nation in the world, they are really good in making a diplomatic unity first....and then slowly able to achieve what their long term strategic objetives were....while Russia goes more or less with little less professional and hard ways....
Respect humanity and soverignity of every nation...May God bless to those people who suffered in this war!

Hope world will be unite again....

All we need is love.

I hope Saakashvili go to jail. Georgia is aggresor like Nazi!

To Gabor:
10 000 people were killed in Hungary in 1956 just before Russian invasion in Hungary began. Mostly Hungarian people were killing Hungarian people. The communist idea was not Russian made thing.
The Georgia – South Ossetia conflict hast nothing to do neither with Russian expansion or any ideology. If you know the history each Russian central power shutdown if followed by attempts of Georgia to wipe out Ossetia. 1921 (Russian Civil War), 1993 (USSR decay). For some reason Georgians and Ossetians do not like each other. The role of Russia is not to let those peoples to annihilate.

I do understand that Russia is fighting politically, economically and militarily – to gain back her influence. However, the world stands firm for democracy. The peopleof the world who are maturing in the process of democracy, who love democracy and dialogue hates war.

United States for that matter was/is criticized for war on Iraq. This is almost the same with what Russia is in now.

When we talk about all the reasons why Russia bahaves like she does right now, there is one reason I can say and that is: World Balance of Power.

However, it is best to compete with the United States if Russia will use democratic processes. Not in a way she will be hated by her former satellites, allies and the neutral countries.

Russia has a victorious past, a great Christian country. The only problem I think is not their system but the rulers who loves to preserve their power. This is undemocratic and of course hated perhaps not the Russians or say not all Russians but I guess the world.

To cut this short, it is best to damp Georgia's ambitions if the process in doing so are in the form of dialogue where in offers will be used to win the hearts and minds of the Georgians. But before that, Russia should win the trust of the international community first.

Wow, so many Russians read CNN, thats nice :)

Dear Russians, Putin/Medvedev are washing your brains. Georgia didnt start anything. They were provoked by Russian controlled separatist (they have nothing to do with ossetians by the way). If Russia wanted to solve ossetia/abhazia peacedully they had 1000 ways to do so, but no, they neede to order ossetian so called leaders (russian officers btw) to provoke Goergians over and over again. They gave Russian passports to ossetians for nothing, by the way, just "here, take our passport". And when Goergians finally responded then Russia launched full scale war on Georgians by mombing civilians etc.

Putin is the worst criminal. disgusting.

To Kirill and other Russian commentators: it's no wonder that many people from Eastern Europe (like those from the Baltic states, but also Czechs, Poles and Hungarians like my fellow countryman Gabor) are so quick to denounce Russia as the aggressor. Memories of the Soviet occupation are still fresh, and given their history in the 20th century, these peoples may have some valid fears about Russian might and Russian intentions.

On the other hand, perhaps I'm not the only Eastern European to see that the Russians may have their own concerns, too: about U.S. expansion in their periphery, and about the West negliging their point of view in issues like e.g. Kosovo. (Yes, the West was stupid to make a precedent by recognizing Kosovo's independence, instead of following the 'Taiwan model', i.e. not recognizing officially, but living together with the de facto situation).

However, if everyone acts (and speaks) on their fears, it's hard to see how to avert a new cold war. How about taking the other guy's perspective into account, too? The West should understand the Russian concerns and stop the verbal sabre-rattling. Russia should understand the concerns of its Western neighbours, especially those of the smaller ones (you see, the smaller you are, the more you have a right to be concerned).

Gabor, maybe you know that in South Osetia there was a referendum recently and 99% of osetian people support independency from Georgia and would like to become the part of Russia. Also many russian citizens live in Osetia.

I believe that you (as well as americans) has stereotypes about Russia... Invasions, raising ethnic tensions, dividing small nations (maybe bears on the streets in Syberian cities).

Nowadays many people try to palter with facts about World War II (including Latvia and Estonia) and equal Stalin's regime an Hitler's. But you should always remember who bring freedom to your countries from Hitler.

As to reports of casualities – they always appear to be overstated. In this case the civilian casualities are likely to be in hundreds, but not in thousands, but this does not change anything. Important point missed in this attempt to analysis – Mr. Sakashvilli (whose mental health raised questions and does still more so now) has manipulated the West. The United States are doing a very short-sighted move, sending again wrong signals to him. Most likely what would happen is that a next crazy "friend of America" (there were many of them from bin Laden to Miloshevich and Saddam Hussein) would get America in a position where it will have no other option, but fight for someelse's cause where it would rather not. Russia found itself in this positon more than once in the past – including fighting for Georgia with Iran, for Bulgaria with Turkey and for Serbia with Germany. Do you think it earned any gratitude. Nope. Instead Mr. Saakshvility has claim that that it was Georgia that has been struggling for its independence for 400 years. Georgians see themselves as a great nation surrounded by barbarians and everyone around hate them for this.

Quote from the answer of "Dmitry (from Russia) August 14th, 2008 913 GMT

Vova_Tbilisi,

you should change Saakashvili and you will live better. Saakashvili sell Georgia to USA. What you expect from Russia for that?

Do not mess Chechnia and Osetia. In Chechnia was the war against bandits, which were also supported from USA. In Osetia Georgians start to bomb Tskhinvali and kill civilianz."

Why do not mess Chechnia and Osetia?
Viewed from the Russian point of view (the "war" in Chechnia) or from the Georgian point of view (the "war" in South Osetia) it looks the same. Sepparatists want to separate their teritories from the central regime.
And, btw., last year I was in the Russian part of the Caucassian area, and the militia from there called the Georgians also bandits. Did that tells You something?
Did You also know, that last year the Russian troops fired towards the Georgian teritory?

PS – sooner or later, all the small republics from the Caucassus area will try to escape from the "democratic" Russian regime.

Dmitry from Russia,

It is not your job whom Georgian people will chose or "change". You at least "chose" yours.
It is cynical to talk about CNN's bias when I read Russian websites.
FYI, Georgian villages outside Tskhinvali were bombed by Ossetian or Russian peacekeepers during a week before August 8. Each and every single night!

Peaple who never lived in the USSR will probably never understan Russian leader's intentions.
Talking about genocide of Ossetians by Georgians. GIVE ME A BREAK! I recomend to check HRW website. Some of the articles are written by russian researchers. Please go ahead, you will at least have some impression what is the real situation.
I live 40 miles from Tskhinvali, having relatives in surrounding villages, and 90 miles from Russian border for 35 years, 20 og that in the USSR, in 1989 saw russian soldiers killing 19 women with spades, "cheromukha" chemical gasses on the street in Tbilisi, who were sitting and singing in a peacefull demonstration, And some guy from Moscow fed up by Russian informational propaganda or from NY (no offence to any of the cities' population) being mad at their stupid president Bush are telling other nation what to do.

As of the article, it describes the situation fairly but lacks some deeper analysis. Why the whole thing started in 1991? Why it is resumed now? if you think all about Ossetians and Georgian. Come on, read history what happend in Ossetia and Abkhazia in early 20s. How Russian goverment headed by Lenin and supported by Stalin (unfortunately Georgian) trying to rgain power in Georgia, when it was independent country for 3 years pushed Ossetians and Abkhazians against Georgia then they left them for two years untill the red army came from the south and overtook Tbilisi. Big nations use small nations in fulfiling their sometimes sick ambitions. This is a life of small nations, including Georgia. Big 'brothers' open your eyes!

Agee with you Gabor,

I am from Finland and we also know Russia's real face. As you said what should we expect from Russians? Invasions, raising ethnic tensions, dividing small nations. How come it seems Russia have no real friends. And how could they when offering always a stick, never a carrot.

And for You sitting safely in the US think twice. I mean, are you so naive to believe that Russia would not have attacked Georgia without Kosovo getting independence? We here in the cold know far more better. For experience is a cruel teacher, but by God one learns! Russia finds always an excuse to "save" or "libarate" us neighbouring small nations from the burden of ruling our own lives. Or do you really think that Russia has become the world's largest state only by piecefeful means?

Or as the great leader V.Putin himself puts it nice: "the collapse of the Soviet Union was the greatest geopolitical catastrophe of the 20th century,"

Thanks for the article it is better then I have seen before but sill not quiet there.

It is said to see that news in US including CNN acting like former Soviet Union news papers. Now day’s Russian news papers give more objective and accurate information when US medias are changing the truth. What happened to freedom? Or US citizens didn’t deserve the truth?
Where is the freedom? Or the freedom is fairytale?

It is shame to lie now days when people have internet and can gather the information themselves.

Saakashvili does not act like a president he acts more like clown, especially when he had spoke to Georgians in English. Guess how many Georgians now English?

If somebody does not remember the history and how that happened that Ossetia and Abkhazia became part of Georgia they should research that before naming “separatists” pure and innocent Ossetian civilians.
Also there are more regions that were given to the other republics by greatest Georgian named Stalin. For example Armenia has pretty much the same situation where their lands were given to Azerbaijan …

Also I think US didn’t recovered yet after the Iraq where Bush and his son G.W Bush started the war twice and now US is going to start another one but this time with Russia?

Don’t forget Russian is not Iraq, and you can’t scary them by kicking from G8 and I think West and US have a lot to lose too and the world will ended up having angrier then it used to be Russian. Guess what might happen? World war III….
Bush was thinking that Iraq might start world war III but he was wrong. Perhaps he should look at the mirror.

Thanks,

I wish we could get to other issues which matter and which matter in the West. This conflict distanced Georgia from its security, people' homes and the affairs. The entire region, not only Georgia has economic and social deficits and it never lived good times. Why is it so difficult to understand, that no civilians want ethnic and territorial issues, but more peace, stability and welfare. If a president with some smart maneuvers would introduce free health insurance, this would be the benchmark for all earth for the coming 30 years.

Real peace will only be possible when it is built on the platform of absolute justice. What was the attitude of the US when the lebanese begged for a ceasefire with Israel a few years ago?

Good policy has to be based on fundamental values. It is as simple as that. If one's friends commit an error one has to have the courage to point it out. Blindly supporting our "allies" is not based on wisdom. Had the US reprimanded the Georgian government for initiang thing military conflict, their(the us) future words would have carried some weight in the future.

Now the US having failed to support its good friend Geogia is desperately compensating with tertiary help and high rhetorics. Shame on you.

Dmitriy,

which country you love bigger?

It is really funny to read the postings of brainwashed readers such as that Putin killed half of chechens. It was very tragic, but most likely more Russians died in that conflict that chechens as substantial Russian population of Chechnya had been largerly cleansed even before the first war started.

To Brau.
The McCain election reason has sense. I thought of it. And I even don't see any other reason for this war. But I do not think that Russia is involved somehow. Russian response was predetermined. After Georgian invasion the only way was the limited war.

Dmitry from Russia – I find it amazing how naive people pretend to be. As I assume you come from Russia and have followed news about referendum in South Osetia. And I am sure you know that this referendum was as fake as the alternative referendum, where 99% of population also said they wanted to be a part of Georgia.

There is no stereotype, Russia invaded in Georgia, no matter what justification they gave it to it, Russia did invade Georgia. Nevermind the argument of protecting Russian "Peace-keepers," if it was not invasiion and demonstration of big power to the world, why would Russia bomb other areas of Georgia? Poti about 250 km away from Conflict zone- leaving 15 people dead and over 50 injured? Kaspi – a cement factory has been destroyed, the main source of income for the majority of the community in Kaspi, Radars of Civil Airport, leaving lots of people outside Georgia, not being able to come home, Kareli – leaving people dead, bombing main highway - after all of that, you would argue that Russia did not invade Georgia?

This article has encapsulated the whole picture of the Georgian-Russian War. The west threats wont do much to Russian image if in the next three week after the whole Georgian issue has quiet down and Iran takes a center stage to which Russia is a Keep component in the Diplomatic process to resolved the nuclear issue.

I believe both parties(Georgia and Russia) were wrong to go to war but the biggest culprit is the Georgian government who initiated the battle of south ossetia.The Russians were only protecting its citizens the same way US are protecting its citizens in Afghanistan, IRAQ or the israelis in West Bank, Ramallah and Jerusalem.

August 14th, 2008 1129 GMT

"Gabor, maybe you know that in South Osetia there was a referendum recently and 99% of osetian people support independency from Georgia and would like to become the part of Russia. Also many russian citizens live in Osetia"

Let me ask you: Did Georgians vote in the referemdum who lived in south Ossetia before 1992?

Anyway I regret the civilian casualties of both sides and I don't deny Sout Ossetians also have heavy civilian losses.

"Nowadays many people try to palter with facts about World War II (including Latvia and Estonia) and equal Stalin’s regime an Hitler’s. But you should always remember who bring freedom to your countries from Hitler."

Stalin never brought freedom to us. He was the one who took the freedom from us arresting political leaders in 1949. Not communist party won election at that time. It was a smaill party and people didn't choose them. They just grabbed power because the red army was here. You don't know the real facts of that time that's why you think we try to palter your facts. Stalin replaced Hitler.

"Nowadays many people try to palter with facts about World War II (including Latvia and Estonia) and equal Stalin’s regime an Hitler’s. But you should always remember who bring freedom to your countries from Hitler."
Do you know about Soviet terror in Latvia and Estonia before and after Hitler terror? Do you know how much those people suffered? Stalin and Hitler were allies before Hitler attacked Soviet Union.

Dmitry (from Russia):

You wrote:
"But you should always remember who bring freedom to your countries from Hitler."

Please understand that you are entirely wrong. No, the Soviet Red Army in 1945 did not bring freedom to other nations in Eastern Europe. In 1945 one oppressor (Germany) was ousted by another oppressor (USSR), and Nazi dictatorship was replaced with Communist dictatorship. That's not freedom! Freedom did not come until 1990.

Dear Gabor,
Do you know that Russians are not Soviets and Stalin is Georgian?

обидно блин, что из-за горстки хмммм людей...? страдают тысячи...

to Georg Bach:
sorry, but you suppoused to be an idiot!
Russia is not an Imperia any more. And the empire of lie and evi is USA!!!
Our aim is not to set smb. or the wlole world on knees, but simply rise ecomony, eliminate criminal and bribery. But some countries want to possess ressources (this is called democrasy ...bu-ga-ga...) and everithing to make people fight each other.
But be shure, Russia will stand everithing and no money will help America to disjoint my country.
Don't compare Putin with Stalin. It's foolish to speak without knowing the history. Only one question: who won the world war2? Who????
Of course americans!!!! :)

2 Dmitriy from Russia
It is difficult for me to define whcih country I love more. I love Russia as my homeland and love US as a very nice, democtratic and cristiac nation.

2Gal
It does not matter how to define – was Russia invading or acted in response to Georgian attack. As I see – Ossetia is only the reason, but the real cause is Russia wants to protect itself from NATO at its borders. Georgians want to be protected from Russia, Russia wants to be protected from NATO. Peace can be found somewhere between. If Georgia goes to NATO, this pushes Russia to protect itself acting under any reason: protecting peacekeepers, saving Ossetinans... whatever.

Imagine yourself that more than 1000 americans were killed somewhere in the world. What would US government do? Almost all civilians killed by Georgian army in S.Osetia had Russian passports. If the state is unable to defend it`s sitizens it is a poor state. That`s not geopolitics. Russians don`t want to have a poor state & Putin realizes it. Russians had enough humiliation last 17 years.
Political side is that USA uses double-standarts. Remember Kosovo. De facto South Osetia is an indepent country for last 16 years. Ossetians will never live together with the Georgians after what has happened.
Russia is not agressor. Russian people want to live peacefully with all the International Community. But Europe and the USA need to be more objective in political questions.

This isnt our war, and tho Bush likes to police the world, he shoudlve stayed tight lipped. so its georgia over russia huh, what is it we gain from georgia besides airspace to attack russia, thats the only thing i see worthwhile...(i dont put it behind the administration on the thoughts of fightin another pointless war-) how is it no one is saying how stupid bushes postion on this is-so the 2,000 troops in iraq im sure thats rewarded by gov. contracts and billions of dollars we give to everyone except our selves ( people her losong jobs left and right but we pay 20.4 bill to arm soldiers in iraq( whom we pay 300 a month to each soldier) thanx for nothing bush, expecially making enemies with the wrong people at the wrong time.

Vladimir Putin: "As we all know, Saddam Hussein for destroying some shiit villages was to be hanged. Concearning today's georgian rullers THAT IN A SHOT TIME ANIHILATED 10 OSSETIAN VILLAGES, THAT RIDE DOWN ON TANKS ON THE CHILDREN AND GRANDFATHERS, THAT BURNT ALIVE INNOCENT CIVILIANS – THESE RULLERS, they should be secured"

Uppercased text, when showed on BBC, was cuted.

Pentagon+NATO+Israel sponsored this campaing-tragedy. They had about 1000 instructors in on the side of Georgia, right before Saakashvilly sent MERCENARIES to polish Tskhinvali with systems of jet fire.

Besides, Saakashvillian MERCENARIES that killed 2000 Ossetian civilians in 24 hours were trained on NATO bases. One such base is not far from my home in Latvia.

Saakasvilli was first who attacked. If Saakashvili provoke again, Russian peacemakers are lawful to break ceasefire.

Reading the comments here it is clear to me that there are many people busy writing comments to earn their FSB salaries.

And a lot of you people need to read up on your history.

Like saying Stalin was a georgian, but leaving out that he was ossetian too.

Hearing from eyewitnesses what ossetianmilitia are doing to journalists and to georgian villagers it is clear to see from what heritage Stalin got his methods.

All you russians claim that you had to do this to stop georgian military attac on Tshinvali.
But if you would have stopped the ossetian separatists from shooting at georgian villages in the first place then there would have been no need for the georgian military to attac.
And thousands of ossetian and georgian lives would have been saved.
But that is not what Putin wants.
He wants the peoples of the Caucasus to kill eachother.
And when he can not push them to do this fast enough, he gives a helping hand ( or a bunch of bombs).

2 Glenn

Thank you, mate. I couldn't say better.

What some Western top politicians (especially in US and UK) don't understand about Russia and Russian intentions is that today nobody is Russia (including Putin, Medvedev and Russian political elite) wants to restore the Soviet Union – we all said Good Buy to this 17 years ago. Even if we had some resentment and grief – it's gone now. Russian understand this very well. Nobody was sorry about Georgia, Armenia and Azherbaidjan (as well as Baltics states and Central Asia states) to leave – may be, about Ukraine and Belarus and Kazakstan. But today we used to live within current Russian borders and don't want go back – we can be much more better off without these states regarding our natural resources (more GDP per capita). Certainly, there are and there always be some marginal politicians in Russia who would always dispute the break up of the USSR – like everywhere – but they will never ever play a serious role in politics. What Russians (both people and politicians) are pissed off and feel resentment about is that Western preception and attitude towards Russia didn't change much since 1985 when Gorbi came to power). If we measure the conceptial, economical, political, ethical and other differences between USSR and the West on scale 0-10, since 1985 our coutry (Russia) made a way from 0 to 8, may be even 9. The West (especially US) – from 0 to 0,5. They still think we are like the former communist USSR, they compare us (with the help of mindless politicians from Baltics state, Poland and Georgia) with Nazi Germany, they don't trust us, don't want to take into account our national pride and interests. The West still has to make efforts to overcome – to walk its part of the way. Yes, Russia under Putin fell a little bit back in terms of the values it belives – but not without the negative examples given by USA and hostile rethorics from Baltics, Poland and Georgia. Russia is not against Georgia joining NATO (and certainly EU) – looked how easy politically was it for Baltics to join NATO (and Estonia and Latvia are much closer to Moscow and St.Pete than Georgia) – but they behaved differently! Civilized. Russia would never ever said a word about Georgia joining NATO and EU if Tbilisi politicians were wiser – instead of humiliating Russia and Russians (who always liked Georgians – and the other way around – and it's shame that we can loose this today!) they should rather build trust and good relations with Russia and the West at the same time! When the West is criticising us – one can agree or disagree – but this is not INSULTING. When Baltics, Polish and Georgian politicians and media critisize us – they often INSULT rudely our feeling, distort our history. What do you expect this will lead to??? Of course, Russian politicians and Russian people feel very deep frustration about such rethorics and lies. Remember, that within the former USSR Georgian used to have the highest living standards enjoying their geographical locations – people from all over the USSR were coming in Summer time for holidays to Georgian Black Sea resorts paying a lot of money to local land lords, buying the friut and vegetable, flowers – half of Georgian were working in Moscow, Leningrad and other Russian and and Soviet cities markets selling fruit and flowers and earning lots of money! When they lost this market in 1991 – after the break up of the USSR – they were left with nothing. No serious industry, no skills and knowledge. Russian started to go for holidays to Turkey, Greece, Egypt, Europe, importing Marocco ornages instead of Georgian – and Georgian economy slowly and surely came to disaster. The Geogrian politicians at power at that time – instead of making efforts to develop the economy – laumched military actions against South Osessia and Abzhasia – and it went on and on and on.

Dear commenter, before you start making comment about Georgia first open the history book .
Don't speak out on behalf of Georgians. If not real son of fascist nation and prime minister, who else can sa ywhy Georgian president is not making speach in Russian.

Russia made genocide of Chechnia. Then why did you human russians kept silence and what would you do if then other big country bombed you and tried to invade Russia as drunken with vodka russian solders are doing in Georgia these days and then justifdied their actions for helping brother checheni people. Yuo would say It is Russia's territory and nobody could interfere. So it is the same now. Osetia and Abkhazia are parts of Georgia. Russian " peace keepers" were and are there to back the separatist regimes. When you are writing about the genocide of Ossetians what about the hunderds and thousands of Georgian civilians killed by Russians bombing. If Russia is helping Osetia then why Russian planes bombed several towns and even capital of Georgia which are outside conflict and killed a lot of people., women, children. Some of them still alive were buried under the ruins. is not it ethnic cleaning of Georgians.

Ossetians, I am sure with the advice of Russia, later Russian invasion strengthens my doubts, began shooting and killing the population of Georgian villages. The Russian peace keepers were ther at that time, don't forget this. Now explain to me what georgia should do, wait and watch how peaceful Georgian people are shot.

I think Russia and its bloody Putin should be punished for everything. I hope Europe espcecially Germany who seems Russia's dependent country will show their principal position and will punish Russia

I agree the article depicts the reality.

However, I would like to make a small observation in response to above-mentioned comments.

Just to remind, when the US started war in Iraq, thousands of americans protested and are still protesting. However, I have not seen any protest rally by Russians' against their government. I think people are brainwashed.
Time to wake up for ordinarly Russian people!

Another comment is about referendums in Ossettia as well as in Abkhazia. How do you consider referendums or using any democratic mechanism in these regions where ethnic cleansing took place by russians since 1993. Only In Abkhazia, 300 000 ethnic Georgians were either displaced or killed. This is a fact thanks god to the Post-Soviet Time census that was yearly if not quarterly. After delievrately distributing the Russian passports to those who remained (17% of the whole Abkhazian population was only Abkhaz). After restoring the population balance there and returning Georgians, please, either referendum or the election in a transparent way!

that is the reality which Russian government and Russians do not want to see!

For the Bush Administration and John McCain (and their supporters):

You guys set the example this century for how countries intervene in the affairs of others. Are you completely blind to the irony and double standard you display when you criticize Russia for defending its interests? Setting Iraq aside for the moment, let's look at Kosovo and take a hypothetical example of Serbia claiming to have been attacked by Kosovar insurgents in one of their enclaves, killing/wounding a small number of people. In response, the Serbian Army responds with an overwhelming artillery barrage on what passes for a major urban area nearby, followed by an armed incursion of their forces. Just exactly how do you think NATO/US forces would respond in this instance?

I'm not trying to justify either Georgian or Russian (or Abkhazian/Ossetian) use of force. None of them apparently realize that all they've done is destroy any chance of short-term clear-headed thinking on the matter and destroyed most diplomatic means of resolving this, not to mention killed an untold number of innocent people who just wanted to live a normal life in peace, and caused exponentially more to run in fear for their own lives.

While I think everyone involved in the decision to strike and the diplomatic aftermath would best be served by rewinding the tapes of Russian objections (and predictions) to the Kosovo affair, and to stop acting like children on a playground, I'm afraid that won't happen. Congratulations President Bush, the fruits of your term in office are finally falling off the tree and our next President will have one heck of a mess to clean up.

Well, after killing all Georgians in Georgia or expelling them out, on the following referendum to join russia while only russian army present there, will definitively lead to 99% votes pro. Such a free vote already happened, sorry, was force in Osedia and Abhasia.

It is an exclusively russian national way to understand freedom, peace and cooperation between equals in rights. I ask myself what other country is next after they will consume all looted in Georgia? Ukraine? NOTO and US proved that they will not involve.

Dose it really makes people left in Osetia and Abhazia happier to be “protected” by barbarians?

to Gal from Georgia – how can you imagine helding military operation without damaging strategic objects (radars, etc)? That means to send our troops to die. Why don't you ask us why we use guns but not knives or haches? But are there any radar stations or airports in Tshinvaly? Or you suppose little military plants to be in the Ossetians' houses?
to Gabor – only 60 years have passed and people become to forget who Hitler was... "One arian nation","The end justifies the means", 40 millions dead people, Holocost and facists order to ruin London and Saint-Petersburg... I believe it is not the same as all cruelty of Stalin's regime (really awful, black page of our history, but not even nearly as inhuman as Hitler's). Many of my relatives were killed when they fighted for world's population not to be slaves. Please, take back your words.

As an Indian – with little stake in this conflict (except the fear that this will raise crude prices ) and with due respect to the suffering S Ossetians and Georgians, I wish to present my unbiased views.

1. Saakashvilli is not fit to lead any country.

2. It was wrong to flatten Tskhanvilli. If the Saakashvilli really considered S Ossetia to be part of Georgia – how could he use Georgian army to destroy a town which he claims is Georgian?

3. When Georgia came into being no one asked the S Ossetians and Abkhaz where they wanted to be. Its a complex dispute – but the US has set a precedent in Kosovo.

4. If Kosovo can be independent – so should South Ossetia and Abkhazia or for that matter Nagorno Karabakh.

5. This crisis makes the West look bad in every way.

6. The real sad part is the behaviour of the US leaders. George Bush looks out of sorts and clueless ; McCain looks definitely senile and Obama is trying to look as smart as he can. But this egg sticks on all of them – specially after what they did to Serbia and Kosovo.

7. It is time that the world wakes up to the danger of leaders like Saakashvilli – he's not alone ; we have that lady in Ukraine ; most of the Baltic states are pretty shrill in what they say – and now it seems Poland has got infected with the same virus.

Bottomline – we stand at the cross roads – things can go really bad unless the hotheads ( and I must say dumbheads) are reined in. Hope the French and Germans can drive some sense into this mess. The Brits are of course at their reticent best !!

Samik

All Russians expressing their opinions here talk bul-t because they have no idea what the life was like here in Georgia for Ossetians and Abkhazians. They were getting all the privelegies etc. because Georgian people are that way – never discriminate between ethnic Georgians and non-Georgians living in Georgia (and we are harvesting these seeds now).

Russian empire invaded Georgia in the late 18th century by breaking the truce Georga and Russia signed earlier by which Russia would protect tired Georgia from Iran and Turkey. By the way there were left only 700,000 Georgians by that time. We fought back our freedom in 1918 and in 1921 Russia (this time communist-red) invaded us again. We regained our independence again in 1991 and since then Russia has been palying games on us supporting breakaway regions and punishing us this way for not wanting to be Russia’s satellite country like Belarus or Armenia.

I do not think my Russian friends would be so alarmed by Russian – North Caucasian joint “troops” that played soccer with cut off Georgian heads on the stadium in Gagra, Abkhazia in 1993 and tones of other events of ethnic cleansing of Georgian population elsewhere in Abkhazia or South Ossetia. You see, they only “care” about ethnic Ossetians and Abkhazians – you propagandistic, brainwashed, blinded, low self esteemed, angered and coward Russian chauvinists!

It won’t be too long before we see Russian empire coming apart – and deservedly so, go look what’s going on in Russian regions close to China – can’t hear Russain speech there anymore, it’s all Chinese there – ))))

I am not saying US is any better than Russia – they are both “good” but unfortunately Georgia happens to be Russia’s neighbor – and we have to cope with this misfortune.

Chechen Vechen -)))) !

Well, this conflict opened my eyes on the so called free media of the West. I've been watching BBC and CNN, and reading BBC and CNN sites through out the escalation of the South Osetian conflict. Simultaneously i watched Russian TV news. And i made a conclusion that niether Russian nor Western media are free. Each of them follows the interests of the countries they are headquarter'ing in.
Thank God, i can understand both Russian and English languages to make a balanced opinion. And i would say that the US with their puppet Georgian president is more likely to be bad guys than Russia in the situation.

And about evil in the present World. Let's give assessment only to the real actions of the governments.

US government:
Iraq,
Jugoslavia,
~Afganistan~

Russian government:
?
?

As to the article, i would say it is more or less good and even fair considering that this is CNN, but again where is describing of the couse and starting point of the conflict, i.e. bombing of Tskhinvali by Georgian troops?!

Kirill, that's what I am saying – it was a pure military operation, invasion to the country – not a peace making mission as Russian government has been claiming. Russia does not give a shit about people living in South Osetia – in fact Russian government does not even care about its citizens, so what should we expect?

And i dont get what youa re trying to say about WII, Hitler was bad, Stalin was bad – so what? You claim Russia rescured the world? or maybe it was unity of many nations (including Georgia) that fought against Hitler?

All Russians expressing their opinions here have not done their homework because they have no idea what the life was like here in Georgia for Ossetians and Abkhazians. They were getting all the privelegies etc. because Georgian people are that way – never discriminate between ethnic Georgians and non-Georgians living in Georgia (and we are harvesting these seeds now).

Russian empire invaded Georgia in the late 18th century by breaking the truce Georga and Russia signed earlier by which Russia would protect tired Georgia from Iran and Turkey. By the way there were left only 700,000 Georgians by that time. We fought back our freedom in 1918 and in 1921 Russia (this time communist-red) invaded us again. We regained our independence again in 1991 and since then Russia has been playing games on us supporting breakaway regions and punishing us this way for not wanting to be Russia’s satellite country like Belarus or Armenia.

I do not think my Russian friends would be so alarmed by Russian – North Caucasian joint “troops” that played soccer with cut off Georgian heads on the stadium in Gagra, Abkhazia in 1993 and tones of other events of ethnic cleansing of Georgian population elsewhere in Abkhazia or South Ossetia. You see, they only “care” about ethnic Ossetians and Abkhazians – you propagandistic, brainwashed, blinded, low self esteemed, angered and coward Russian chauvinists!

It won’t be too long before we see Russian empire coming apart – and deservedly so, go look what’s going on in Russian regions close to China – can’t hear Russain speech there anymore, it’s all Chinese there – ))))

I am not saying US is any better than Russia – they are both “good” but unfortunately Georgia happens to be Russia’s neighbor – and we have to cope with this misfortune.

Chechen Vechen -)))) !

Gabor, you are inadequate.

I was right telling that you don't remember that russian solder liberate Budapesht from germans in 1945.

Dmitry

That cartoon you posted amazingly sums up the situation in two pictures.

Just pasting the link again – and I request the blogger to give it a more permanent post on this blog.

http://www.independent.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00043/cartoon110808_43676a.jpg

Well, president Bush or secretary of state Rice are the last persons to make any statements about a country invading a sovereign country/territory What about Iraq in 2003?

Double standards, double standards. It makes me sick!

Gal from Georgia, of course in WWII Georgian people were side by side with Russians and other soviet nations, but I've addressed it to european man, because at those time europeans named soviet as "russians"

2 Dmitry (from Russian)

Dear Dmitry,

There were not only Russian Soldiers who liberated the Budapest, but it was Soviet Army, they were brothers once, fighting next to each other, do not forget.

Russians are all shovenistic sons of the bitches. I know them, because I lived with them a lot. How can country which subdued so many caucasian and not only caucasian nations in the most brutal way, speak about peace and freedom? Some years ago they eleminated more then half of chechen population just because they wanted freedom. Help Georgia.

Russian people don’t have right to talk about Saakashvili. Did you forgot about Chechnya? If you forgot, I will remind you. Putin destroyed their cities and killed their children and women too.
Why when Russian Government was continually killing people in Chechnya, Russian people was so quiet, or people in Chechnya don’t have right for living?
Russian government destroyed Gori and Poti and Zygdidi as Hitler done in 1941- 1945, by destroying kindergartens, buildings with civilians and hospitals, they was killing children, women and elders. Everyone knows who was KAKOITI “president” of S. Ocetia , and how he become ‘President” of S.Ocetia.
I respect everyone, but if any person from any other republic or country doesn’t like Georgia, USA, Abhazia South Ocetia's there are always welcome leave, god bless them and their families too, but you cannot take land with them.
But here is one more thing, Abhazia and South Ocetia is the territory of Georgia, if your are not sure open the history book and read.
P.S NORTH OCETIA AND SOCHI WAS CEORGIAN TERRITORIES TOO UNTILL STALIN ADDED TO RUSSIA. IT’S JUST HISTORY AND NOTHING MORE.
Georgian people want just live as normal people with out hate in their hearts Not like Russians in Russia hating everyone who is not Russian.

Gabor,

you don't understand the difference between Hitler and Stalin. Hitler killed foreign people, but Stalin killed mostly soviet people. I don't like Stalin too, but who knows if we could win in WWII, if we didn't had such frighten regime in USSR.

All Russians expressing their opinions here have not done their homework because they have no idea what the life was like here in Georgia for Ossetians and Abkhazians. They were getting all the privelegies etc. because Georgian people are that way – never discriminate between ethnic Georgians and non-Georgians living in Georgia (and we are harvesting these seeds now).
Russian empire invaded Georgia in the late 18th century by breaking the truce Georga and Russia signed earlier by which Russia would protect tired Georgia from Iran and Turkey. By the way there were left only 700,000 Georgians by that time. We fought back our freedom in 1918 and in 1921 Russia (this time communist-red) invaded us again. We regained our independence again in 1991 and since then Russia has been playing games on us supporting breakaway regions and punishing us this way for not wanting to be Russia’s satellite country like Belarus or Armenia.
I do not think my Russian friends would be so alarmed by Russian – North Caucasian joint “troops” that played soccer with cut off Georgian heads on the stadium in Gagra, Abkhazia in 1993 and tones of other events of ethnic cleansing of Georgian population elsewhere in Abkhazia or South Ossetia. You see, they only “care” about ethnic Ossetians and Abkhazians – you propagandistic, brainwashed, blinded, low self esteemed, angered and coward Russian chauvinists!
It won’t be too long before we see Russian empire coming apart – and deservedly so, go look what’s going on in Russian regions close to China – can’t hear Russain speech there anymore, it’s all Chinese there – ))))
I am not saying US is any better than Russia – they are both “good” but unfortunately Georgia happens to be Russia’s neighbor – and we have to cope with this misfortune.
Chechen Vechen -)))) !

Sorry for writing so much – but all these events are really disturbing me. One more comment – my critisizm of US foreign policy. I am working for a lrage US company in Russia, I sued to work for US companies since 1992. I like Americans very much – one of the most open, sincere, generous and kind people I met in my life. They taight me a lot in term of business and many other things. I admire US enthrepreneuship spirit, fairness, corporate culture – they are the World's best employers. But still I can't agree with some US government actions. I don't want to discuss details (Kosovo, Iraq etc. – many opinions and articles were writtne on this topic). I just want to make a general comment. US goverment actions within the last few years reminds be Russian Bolshevics behavior in 1917-1920. They also SINCERELY believed that they are right (and ONLY they), that they wanted to make every one happy, and the knew (and ONLY) how to make other people happy. Democracy is on my opinion the best politican system people invented. And I sincerely Russia be a truly democratic country. But democracy is NOT THE ONLY legitimate political system – there are dozens of other countries happy leaving without it. Why FORCE them to change so quickly to democarcy? instead of leading by EXMAPLE, US is leading... by FORCE. Let these coutries and people some time – may be 100 years, may be less – they will understand this. If even among my peers – very well educated, top middle class people eaning 100K+ US $ per annum – there are a few who understand the real freedom, the real NEED for fredom of speach, policial parties (one of the top tlayers on Maslow pyramid of human needs) – what do you expect from millions of ordinary people – peasants, workers etc??? Russia is tired of US FORCING the democracy all over the World, beeing PRO-ACTIVE in this. The more US pushes – the higher would be the resistence. Though, I agree, that some political freedoms in Russia today are limited (one party pre-dominance, cancellation of elections of regional governors, major TV and electronic media seazed by the Government). But Russis is still a democratic country – it never ever in its history was as democratic as within the last 17 years.

Here is independent (more or less) video from Deutsche Welle

http://ru.youtube.com/watch?v=GPDBfTX2aik&feature=related

IIia,

About your comments that Russian peace keepers bombed Georgian villages a week before Georgian bombings of Tskhinvali.
I guess Saakhashvilli told you that... because it is a peace of "nonsense".
And during last days Saakhashvilli told a lot of nonsense to justify (if it is possible) his actions in Osetia. He even mentioned that it was Russian planes and artillery that destroyed Tskhinvali.- a lie that you must be endlessly stupid to believe in.

You Russians forget or don't want to understand that "South Ossetia" and Abkhazia are parts of Georgia and always were. When you gave away Russian passports to the citizens of neighbouring country against all international laws, you knew you can use it to "defend" them in the future. It's the same if Georgia had given Chechens Georgian passports and then would invade Chechnia (Russia) to defend their citizens when Russia started "anti-terrorist operation" there. What Russian citizens do in Georgian territory without vizas? for the last 15 years whole "South Osetia" and Abkhazia are ruled by official Russian personnel (mostly former or acting KGB/FSB members) and this is not a secret to anyone. It seems it's good place to "wash" some money there.
Russians often say that Abkhazians and Osetians don't want to leave within Georgia, but you forgot that majority of civilians (about 400 000) from these regions (Georgians) were expelled by Russian troops in 90's. Let all refugees return home and then ask them where they want to leave.

To Russian posters: I understand that you trying to defend your goverment. Why donnot you mention how many georgian civilians died around Tskinvali, now many were taken hostages to North Ossetia. Why donnot you also mention that Georgian villages were shelled nonstop for 10 days before Georgian troops attacked. Why donnot mention that Abkhazians attacked Georgians in Kodori and cleansed few thousand Georgian population there and how many dead are unclear. Only thing I am ready to admit that it was a Russian trap and Saakashvili failed to pass exam which was tragic for everybody in the region.

"you don’t understand the difference between Hitler and Stalin. Hitler killed foreign people, but Stalin killed mostly soviet people. "
What are the soviet people? There were very many nations.
How much people did kill soviets in Ukraine, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia and Poland?

What is there to side the aggressor who was eventually mauled and crying like a wolf for help? EU and Nato must count themselves very lucky not to admit Georgia into Nato earlier lest they would be dragged into an unwanted war. Nato is playing a slow and dangerous game to recruit more frontline member countries and eventually encirling Russia to its detriment. Countries away from the frontline continue to encourage such act to protect itself and using frontline countries as a buffer zone; directly Russia's security is threaten. It is a costly lesson and a reminder to all countries in Europe that entagling with Russia and threatening their security is not in their best interest. Today even a combine Europe is no match for a resurgent Russia. Better to make good and make peace with your giant neighbour and not be too arrogant and street smart.

Gal from Georgia,

What methos can you propose to stop this conflict – only bombing of georgian territoy?
Of course, russians has to invade to gerorgian territory to show its decisiveness. I believe, it was the one way to stop ossetia bombing and allude Saakashvili (and USA) not to play such games in Caucasus.
I am sure that USA gave green light to start that military operation, but they were shocked that russia immideately make a descision to help ossetia and move forces.

1) I claim that "Stalin replaced Hitler" and "Stalin never brought freedom to us" (Gabor) are foolish phrases. It is different scales, Hitler and Stalin, and, finally, Stalin was one of 3 leaders who beat Hitler. Don't say they're equal, that's what I mean.
2) I haven't said anything about "Russia rescured the world". Russia too. Georgia too. In fact, more than half of death soldiers were Soviet soldiers. I completely agree, great deal of countres did their best.
3) I ask again "what would have happened if Russian forces hadn’t supported Ossetians?" Doesn't matter what might be the reasons of Russia (there can be a lot of speculations). We stopped kiling people by Georgians. And came back. (Where is invasion? We are in Ossetia and closest military bases in Georgia. (Repeat again, we must damage them just to stop Georgian army, nothing more.)) It was a military operation bexause you can't stop tank without another tank.

Nice to see the CNN message boards becoming spammed with Russian cyber warfare cronies.

The Russians and georgians are both stuck into thir silly backwards facing approach to world affairs – time to get out of the 19th century and stop the idiotic nationalist rhetoric. Its nice to see how Russia supports the self-determination of peoples. The residents of Kosovo and Chechenya must love you!

A

As usual the people of South Osetia and Georgia(and millions of other people over the last 63 years) are paying the price for their governments being pawns of the US and Russia governments in their global chess game.

All I know is that people are dead and dying in South Osetia and Georgia and around the globe and thru out history.

Both Russia and the US claim the other is the real evil empire but both sides have caused death and destruction around the world. At this point trying to argue who has done the most damage to the humand race is useless.

It is time to put the cold war in it's grave forever.

Obviously this is not going to be easy!!!

Dmitriy I understand that too. I know difference between them. What done Stalin and Beria it’s not acceptable for today, when we trying analyzed that. But Stalin didn’t attacked any countries and cities. That days was different time and situation.
The most important aspect is, my heart hearts not just for Georgian people but for every person who lives there, because they love own country and respect everyone who leaves there.
My mother was Russian, father Georgian, my husband is Jewish, my nephews is Armenian. Good bless everyone on this word with their families, who respect others believes and wishes.

With regards Manana.

Just wanted to say thanks to everyone who has posted so far. Typically our media is very biased here in America and it hides facts from us. I am sure the same is true for Russia, Georgia, and nearly all other countries. We, as individual people, need to help each other understand what is happening because our governments will not want us to see/hear the truth.

To Gal from Georgia: you've said that russian government doesn't care of russian sitizens and south osetinian people. Then, what would you say about water, bread, meals given to Osenitian? If government doesn't care, why russia spend money to repaire electricity, to reconstruct buildings, schools, kinder gardens in Tshinvali? What about russian doctors, which provide medical help 24 hours per day?
What would you say about russian people who propose to share their flat and houses with south osetinian people?

2 Dmitry from Russia,

You are right, we shouldn't mess Chechnia and S.Ossetia, they are comlplitely different ceses. Chechnia was conquered by Russian Empire (it's a pity that Russia succeeded in it with Georgians support) in difference to S.Ossetia, wich has always been indivisible part of Georgia.

as to Saakashvili, let me remind you that we had more loyal President to Russia (Shevardnadze) who even assighned General of Russian army (Georgian by origin) as a Minister of Defence of Georgia. and what? nothing changed.

Dmitry, I want to tell you that we have nothing against usual Russians, we have against your powerfull govermnment. the only thing we require from your state is RESPECT! You (I mean Russia) can't expect respect to your interests here from us if you expell our citizens, if you support and arm separatists, if you take away our territory, if you bomb my country and kill my people ...

My nation has made it's choise regarding it's leader, it's Saakashvili for the time being. If he makes mistakes we will find the way to change him, but we aren't going to listen to recomendations from Kremlin.

As to USA of course we know that they have their own interests in Caucausus. And don't you have? Have we invited them here to spite you? No, we are just trying to survive.

and regarding HRW report, was it a joke? Head office address doesn't say anything in this case, if you noticed mentioned research was conducted by Russian, and this NGO has critisized my country for many times, so you can't accuse them in baising the report.

Kirril did you have information how many georgian people was killed, from Ocetian before the Georgian goverment start give "answer" to them? no? I will tell you it wasnt countinue month it was countinue years. And how you stop by killing civilians? It is not right.

with regards Manana

It is sad to see such a massive media war surround these tragic events. Makes you understand how little credible information you're actually getting from TV, and I was in fact very surprised to see western media so obviously biased in their reports. I wouldn't expect russian or georgian media to be very objective, of course, since these nations were in direct conflict. But the fact that western media based 99% of their reports on georgian supplied information is basically a sign of incompetence. These media wars undermine the people's faiths in their governments, and since what has been said can't be unsaid, it also deepens the hostility towards other nations in people's minds. This, in turn, creates a loop of hostility, which politicians exploit for their own good.
As to my perception of the conflict itself, I will just say that the west has chosen a very poor partner to deal with (Saakashvili). And right now what they're basically doing is trying to save their face by portraying russia as an aggressive "empire of evil" and completely IGNORING anything said by the russian side. This only deepens in russians the sense that the west is not willing to play on equal terms.
As to the bombing of objects outside South Osetia, let's not be naive. It is modern warfare. Any army would try to take out key military targets outside the zone of direct confrontation. Nato did bomb Belgrade after all, and there were quite some civilian casualties there too. Tragic, but also tragically inevitable.
Some have said that eastern european countries "know russia better". I have to warn you to take this with a grain of salt. The politicians here frequently play the card of "danger from the east" in their political battles, and it's been abused to the point of absurdity. We never used to have warplanes flying overhead here in Riga in soviet times. Now, having joined NATO, we do.
By the way, I'm not russian and I don't have any relatives in russia, if it makes any difference.

people , do you know know that there are very few countries which like Russia ? probably only remaining Cuba ...
Russia always been aggressive to neighbouring countries and not only ...remember Chechnya, afghanistan, Baltic...

During the three-century Russia many times to invade Georgia !

Enough!

Russians should be ashamed for Russia goverment !

Georgia has existed for millennium, it has an old and rich culture and barbarism Russia will never win our beautiful and freedom-loving homeland !

Georgia forever!

I believe all Russian citizens must read it. For long run, for Russian citizens it's good time to stand and ask your government to become a bit more democratic. You are huge country with huge resources and normal people are even more pure then in other pure post soviet countries. Russia is not only Moscow and Saint-Petersburg, and Russia is not only for "new Russians". You can be strong country without forcing others to believe it.

Dmitry from Russia:

You see, that's why many people don't believe Russia now:

In fact, Budapest was not liberated but conquered by the Soviets in 1945. Even the Soviet High Command decorated their soldiers with medals not 'for the liberation' but 'for the capture of Budapest' ('Za vsyatie Budapeshta' in Russian). The Soviet occupation ended one truly brutal and oppressive regime, but at the same time started another one. (Do years 1956 and 1968 ring a bell?) Had our grandparents been fortunate enough to greet U.S. or British soldiers in Budapest 63 years ago, we would call it liberation now. Instead, the USSR occupied and forced Communism upon my country, doing untold short- as well as long-term damage to our society and economy we still haven't fully recovered from.

And now you are trying to convince us that it was actually an act of liberation, something that we should be grateful for. Is it still a more or less official Russian point of view? If so, don't be surprised that many people have their doubts about what Russian actions and intentions in Georga.

GOD BLESS AMERICA!!!!!!!!!!You saved us!!!!!!!!!!!!!!THANK YOU!!!!!!!ITS first nation in history off my country who helped us!!!Sorry i was sure that we will be 1 on 1 to Russian fashists!USA-is a real garant off fredom in the world!А вам русские не стыдно?Вы что все из ума сошли?Какая твой мат агрессия?Еслиб не вы -давно там мир бил-би твари!!!!Ви сами Цхинвали уничтожили миротварцы !!!

In Russia, there is a rumor, that whole situation is provoked by republicans to bring MC into White House. USA is always to blame.

This War was planned by Russia long time ago ...

Russia occupied Georgia in 1801 year ... We uprising in 1804, 1806, 1812, 1832, 1860, 1918-1921, 1924, 1956, 1978, 1989, 1991-1993, and now .. 2008 ...

Georgia is country of Resistance! We love FREEDOM and we ready to fight for it!!!

Russia overcome ub only by Air Force ... bombed our Army by strategic jets, like Tu-22. We shot down 19 jets (Tu-22, Su-25, Su-24) ... destroyed 60 tanks, BMP ... killed more than 450 okkupants, spetsnaz "Vimpel" lost 60 soldiers ... Staff of 58 Army was anihilated by our scouts ...

to Vova_Tbilisi
"Always was indivisible part of Georgia." "Always" means 80 years?

My personal feelings towards the Russian government are cool, possibly the same as towards the American government, whereas my feelings towards what America stands for constitutionally are very passionate, and my feelings for what Russia historical ideology stands for are tempered by lessons of the past. I do not agree with the American government, but I believe America has the greatest potential still to do good, i.e. it has not fulfilled its destiny in the world; whereas the potential for Russian mischief are greater. That said it is a strange paradox that seems the Russian government perceivably on the right side of the fence and the Georgian and de facto American gov. on the wrong side. Lets look at some facts; 1500+ civilians were killed in the opening days of the conflict; the conflict was launched by an offensive of overwhelming numbers of military designation by the Georgian Army .. against who? Seperatists in South Ossetia .. who are probably armed and did fire into Georgia proper. . but it appears Georgia did not distinguish between the seperatists (military) and the South Ossetian civilian population and only decreed a ceasefire to allow residents to escape after the fact; Russion responded with overwhelming military power to repel the Georgian attempt to gain control of S.Ossetian and perceivably to prevent further civilian deaths. Numbers of reports prior to the conflict suggests Russia frequently violated Georgian airspace and bombed vacant, unpopulated areas perhaps sending a message? Finally the US mainly response to the conflict which says much. Personally it appears as if Georgia decided for unilateral action believing and perhaps counting on American support .. otherwise why would it launch a full military offensive in view of the existing (agreed) arragements? America being caught off guard, had only one course and that was to support the action of Geogia even if illegitimate; what other course was open politically given American interests and aspirations in the region? Methinks there is serious recalculating going on in Washington political circles and the Pres. of Georgia is very glum indeed.

Vova_Tbilisi,

I don't have anything against you and georgian people. All your troubles are because of Saakashvili, because he sold Georgia to USA. You are only marionettes in hands of USA. When they deside that Georgia don't need anymore to USA, they will expose Georgia – you should always remember it.

What respect do you expect if USA buy NATO ticket for you (same as Ukraine) and try to surround Russia . It is dangereous for Russian Federation and Russia will do all to prevent it.

PS: Georgia has military budget about $1 bln – this fully american money. Georgian militaries were trained buy USA instructors.

TOPIC : GEORGIAN – RUSSIAN CONFLICT.

REASON : GEORGIAN MILITARY ATTACKED SOUTH OSSETIA.

CASUALTY : MAJORITY RUSSIAN PASSPORT HOLDERS AND
PEACEKEEPERS OF RUSSIA.

RESPONSE : RUSSIA INVADED GEORGIA.

FACTS: (a) RUSSIA OVERPROVE AND OVERDEPEND IT'S
CITIZENS AND INVADED THE ENTIRE COUNTRY.

(b) U.S. AN ALLY DEPEND GEORGIA WHO CATER
2000 TROOPS IN IRAQ.

(c) ABHKAZIA AND SOUTH OSSETIA ARE CURRENTLY
GEORGIAN TERRITORY WHO WAS GIVEN TO THEM
BY STALIN IN THE PAST. ALLEGELY DEFIANT AND
HOLD REBELS TO REPUBLIC GEORGIA.

(d) OVER 15,000 RUSSIAN TROOPS NOW IN GEORGIA.

(e) U.S. DEPLOYS HUMANITARIAN AID WITH TROOPS,
PLANE AND SHIPS.

QUESTIONS: (a) HOW CAN WE END THIS?
(b) IS IT GONNA BE U.S. – RUSSIA CONFLICT?
(c) ARE BOTH PARTIES HAVE HIDDEN AGENDA?

AT FAULT : (a) GEORGIA – FOR TAKING INITIAL AGGRESSION
(b) RUSSIA – FOR INVADING THE INDEPENDENT
STATE
(c) U.S.A. – not yet

SUGGESTIONS: (a) RUSSIA WILL NEED TO STOP THESE,
THEY HAVE PROVE IT ALREADY.
(b) U.S. SHOULD NEVER ENDULGED THERE
SUPERIORITY OF TAKING MILITARY
AGGRESSION TO RUSSIA.
(c.) U.S. WILL CONTINUE TO PROVIDE PLAIN
HUMANITARIAN EFFORT.
(d.) SANCTIONS BE IMPOSED TO BOTH RUSSIA
AND GEORGIA.

COMMENT: Unless these two GIANTS have no hidden agendas of taking there current role on the play, these conflict will never be resolve. It will get ugly and bitter for the people of GEORGIA. And soon to us for 21st century NUCLEAR WAR is inevitable.

Ronnie
Philippines/USA

The US Embassy in Moscow did not lower its flag for the national day of mourning for the 2000 people who died in S. Oesstia. And we were the ONLY country not to do so. I am very ashamed of the United States, my own country.

All Russians expressing their opinions here talk bullshit because they have no idea what the life was like here in Georgia for Ossetians and Abkhazians. They were getting all the privelegies etc. because Georgian people are that way – never discriminate between ethnic Georgians and non-Georgians living in Georgia (and we are harvesting these seeds now).

Russian empire invaded Georgia in the late 18th century by breaking the truce Georga and Russia signed earlier by which Russia would protect tired and embattled Georgia from Iran and Turkey. We fought back our freedom in 1918 and in 1921 Russia (this time communist-red) invaded us again. We regained our independence again in 1991 and since then Russia has been playing games on us supporting breakaway regions and punishing us this way for not wanting to be Russia’s satellite country like Belarus or Armenia.
I do not think my Russian friends would be so alarmed by Russian – North Caucasian joint “troops” that played soccer with cut off Georgian heads on the stadium in Gagra, Abkhazia in 1993 and tones of other events of ethnic cleansing of Georgian population elsewhere in Abkhazia or South Ossetia. You see, they only “care” about ethnic Ossetians and Abkhazians – you hypocratic, propagandistic, brainwashed, blinded, low self esteemed, angered and coward Russian fagots!

It won’t be too long before we see Russian empire coming apart – and deservedly so, go look what’s going on in Russian regions close to China – can’t hear Russain speech there anymore, it’s all Chinese there – ))))

I am not saying US is any better than Russia – they are both “good” but unfortunately Georgia happens to be Russia’s neighbor – and we have to cope with this misfortune.

Do you really think that the avove is a analisys serious. When you swap things and confuse meanings that does usually mean a kind of propoganda. I will specify it: paragraph 4 and 5 of this analysis.

STOP TALKING WITH RUSSIANs!!!!NOTHING LEFT TO SAY!
WORDS CAN BE UNDERSTAND ONLY BY HUMANS!THEY NOT!!!
THEY EVEN NOT ANIMALS-BECAUSE ANIMALS NOT KILLING THE SAME!

STOP TALKING WITH RUSSIANS!!!!!!!!!

Dmitry,

Yes the Russians liberated Eastern Europe from also its independence in 1948, 1956 and 1968. And lets not forget the glorious liberation of Afghanistan in 1979.

Just how many 'advisors" and arms sales does Russia understake annually to send out? Russia happens to be the number one exporter of arms, munitions and military equipment along with its requisite cadre of "advisors". Tsar Putin should stop trying to hide behind the same self-satisfying sanctimounious rhetoric he accuses the Americans of doing. Russia is just as imperialist as the USA.

A

Dimitri, kiril and who ever,

If you are really patriots of your country, Russia, stop talking about the change of Saakashvili government. Begin talking of the change of Putin's government not medevvdev's government because formally still Putin is the president. YOu will do a big favor for Russia.

You Russians, should feel shame and guilty for your country, for your fascist government and skinheaders. The number of skin headers in Russia killing the students and people of other nationalties, Georgians as well is higher than ever in the world.
Besides you can hardly find country and nation in the world except Chile and Kuba who loves Russians. I was in one of the european countries and when I talked to the taxi driver in Russain he nearly dragged me out of the taxi and afterwards when he found out that i was not Russain, he drove me to the destination.

Think of this example,
Don't only think to conque the rest of the world.

Of course there are almost 100 times more Russians in the world than Georgians. So why am I surprised that this blog is full of russian side?!

If any of you, here who dare to sit in your own cosy house, in peace, if you dare to discuss what is happening here, come here, be man enough. Georgia is being invaded, by aliens, and S.Ossetia and Abkhazia, has always been part of Georgia, always, I say always, and it is nobody's business to enter our teritorry.

So, you are saying that CNN is being subjective? let me tell you this. I am here in Georgia, and I watch russian TV channels and they keep saying already for 48 hours that there troops have left, but they have not, it is fact, I witness it, are they lying? When russians say they have bombed only military destinations, why did a russian plane bomb 3 locations around the City where I live, capital of independent country? Why did they bomb the hills, it had no strategic importance, only to scare our people. Does it make sense that after 2 days of russian TVs reporting that russian troops have left Georgia, now they state that it will take 3 more days, because it is not that easy to leave. What kind of sense does it make? So, if it was Georgia who started it, and if it was not russia who pulled us in it, if russia was not preparing for this for months, how come they invaded Georgia in no more than 20 hours? How come if it takes 3 days to take troops out in a peaceful way, how come Russia could occupy us in 20 hours? maybe because they were ready for it?

And one more thing, please read what I say carefully. When russians are asked, on any level, why are they bombing Georgian cities 200 kilometers away from conflict zone, what they answer is, so why did USA bombed Belgrade. Why should Georgians care what US have done?! So by critisizing USA for their actions in Kosovo, doesn't it mean that Russians are saying that what US have done is wrong?! so doesn't it mean that they admit that what they are doing here is wrong as well? and since when, somebody else's wrong is a good excuse for doing your own wrong? So, what kind of an excuse is it, when you talk to people of Georgia, who cares what US have done in Kosovo?

About who started it, we all clearly remember that for 2 days, ossetians where firing Georgian villages, even thou it was mild attacks, it escolated and for the 8th of August, Georgian president have adressed them, to stop the fire, I remember his words, he was saying that he was ready to forgive everything in the name of Peace. He has promised not to fire back, and for more than 12 hours our troops stood still, with the order to hold the fire, and ossetians were firing on them. Where were russian peacekeepers then? when Georgian troop, could not stand any more assault saakashvili have ordered to enter and attack back, but when we have approached Tskhinvali, at 14:45 Saakashvili has ordered to hold the fire, he adressed anybody in Tskhinvali that Georgian troops would not fire for 3 hours from 15:00 till 18:00, and anybody could leave the teritorry, they have cleared a corridor and anybody could come out. So, how can we blame him for killing 2000 ossetians? unbelievable, this are all facts, and I say FACTS. where were russian peacekeepers during those 3 hours, why did they not stop ossetians, who have kept attacking our positions during this 3 hours non stop. I think our president has made a huge mistake when he gave those 3 hours, this gave our enemies time.

Peacekeepers, yesterday have stoped a mini van, and I am not telling a story I have just heard, I am saying what happened to my friend, who was sitting in the mini Bus, so they stopped it to check, this is happening no in ossetia, but near Gori, and they took all the belongings from everybody who was in the bus, they liked a girl, and took her, and ordered the bus to follow them. The driver of the bus was following, and on purpose or by mistake, he pulled on a side of the road causing the buss to turn over to its side. They took the girl, and she is till missing. PEACEKEEPRS, come on, it makes me cry, can not even imagine that beautifull girl, innocent victim of Peacekepers, what will putin answer to a mother, father or a brother of that girl?

Let me tell you one more thing, Russian peacekeepers, (haha) are robbing houses, and you know what is funny? they even take old teapots, what the heck? poor russian soldiers. but am I surprised? no. Why? because when georgian troops have destroyed one of the planes bombing our cities, they arrested a pilot. And do you know what they found in this pocket?! a "proezdnoi na troleibus", and for those not speaking russian, it is a free troley-bus ride card, and just to clear things more, this is given to those families who can not afford to travel even by a troley bus. So, why a high class war pilot like that is not respected more than that in russia? what should we expect from those peacekeepers? they do not even have 100$ salary, of course they will rob. you heroes will do anything for a bottle of vodka, and it is sad.

one more thing I want to ask. How a citizen of Russia feels, how does your dignity feel, how does your personal freedom feel, when officially you have the same president for 3rd time, and just to obey laws, there is this puppet medvedev, controlled by Putin. We all saw how puting was giving assignments to medvedev in front of cameras. On a press conference with Sarkozi, Medvedev has finished his speach with the words earlier said by putin. Come on guys, you live in 21st century, and your country is f**ked by this President of a President. How do you guys feel when even an usual policemen, when stops you for violating the red light, they take 5$ and let you go? are you happy with that? are happy that your great country is in so much mud, when you are going to recover? don't you want to come out of soviet mentality? don't you want to be FREE?

Sorry, for my tone. I have nothing personal against Russians, only agains their politics. Actually vice versa, I love russian culture, language, people, I respect and value this nation, but your politics sucks, your attitude is becoming very inhumane.

Do Georgians want to be allies with USA? be part of NATO? yes, we do. and you know why? because, we are under your insult, and we want to be anywhere other than Russia. Do we like US? no, no, no... but what else do we have to do? you do not respect our country, you do not respect our values, our teritorry, you have done all the harm you could to us, why do you expect we would be on your side? why would we ever think about US? we have been good neighbours for years, we share the same religion, we have so many relatives. we have so many things in common, and we have so little to share with US, but never blame us that we are western oriented, that is because you are untiGeorgiaOriented.

at the end I will you all PEACE

to Kirill
“Always was indivisible part of Georgia.” “Always” means 80 years?

If you not read Historical book then at list read just Wikipedia...

Tskhinvali and Sokhumi (Capital of South osetia (Before USSR Samachablo region) and Afkhazia) was found By Georgian ppl...
Both sity was found much early than we heard something about Osetian or Afkhazian ppl... Very early...
Till 1900 year in Tskhinvali was living only 2 Osetian femily...

and you not feel shame to lie here and say only 80 year,,,, it's only 80 year as osetian come as guest here in Georgia and now say that it's there lend...

Shame on you...

read it with google, georgians i undertand you cannot read or look anything else. All information is blocked for You by your goverment. Why? OK here is REAL TRUE STORY FROM LIVE PERSON( source here: http://forum.littleone.ru/showpost.php?p=14923867&postcount=2567

Впрчем вот только что отписался чОрт из МЧС. Я у него пару дней назад спрашивал -что слышно.
Вот без купюр привожу.

"Вернулся наш чел из Осетии. Морда зеленая, хотя за спиной Афган, Чечня два раза.. Засосал пузырь вискаря и остался трезвым.
О том, что там:
Такого не видел. Абстрагируясь от всяких националистических определений. То, что говорят по ящику и показывают – это даже не половина ... Шли на Цхинвали наёмники. Всяких тварей по парам. Творили что-то невообразимое.
Маленькие дети выскочили к машинам. Приманили их, собрали ... и начали резать. Матери выскочили, кинулись. Им в рот стали засовывать детские фрагменты тел и внутренних органов. Мужиков и мальчишек постарше валили без разбора. Остальных. Женщин, стариков, детей загнали в церквуху и сожгли. При попытке выскочить расстреливали. Насиловали молодых женщин ..., а потом резали на куски. Живых.
Стучались в подвалы. Осетинский знают многие. Люди открывали. В лучшем случае просто расстреливали или бросали гранату. Детей резали детей на глазах у матерей. Матерей резали на глазах у детей и стариков. Чтобы мужики не могли вступиться, простреливали им или отрезали руки ... ... ...
Грызунские миротворцы наших на постах резали и добивали раненых, при отходе из Цхивала, ещё до начала обстрела.
Много ещё чего.
Версия, что одной из главных целей – была задача уничтожить население ЮО, подтверждается.
Каким образом всё это будет использовано – никто не знает. Наши потери точно пока никто не знает. Многих просто ещё не нашли. То ли у грызунов сидят, то ли ... вообщем ещё разбираются. Но от тех, кто был на выносных постах и от тех, кто был на базе в Цхинвале мало кто остался. Пока неразбериха. Кто в госпиталях, кто ... поэтому цифр нет.
В силах вошедших потерь очень мало. Как это цинично бы не прозвучало, военные поймут. Гораздо ниже ожидаемого.
Гражданских ... их пока тоже считают. Сколько под завалами? Скольких уже похоронили? Сколько угнали грызуны? Вопросов много. Ответов нет. Но озвученная цифра 2000 вызывает сомнение. В смысле её заниженности в несколько раз.
Резюме. Всё приводимое в рассказах по ТВ и т.п. правда. Многое ещё предстоит узнать. А что-то узнаем вряд ли.

Вот такие вот дела.
И ещё. Сейчас работы идут по очистке от трупов города. Потому что уже положение критическое. Особо даже не разбираются. Хоронят всех вместе.
Тут про гробы говорили ... не ждут их. Кого родные опознали, это да. А так ... брезент и хлорка.
На войне как на войне.

Судя пороже Саркози, Медведев показал ему нечто, что тот еще не видел."

All talks about NATO threat to Russia almost made me cry – poor Russia, has to defend itself from NATO, so they have to bomb Georgia – what else can they do? as if it really were a game and people have not been killed!

Dmitry, just look out of box for a minute and think! If Russia had not been so imperialistic, restraining Georgias development, why would Georgia want to worson relations with a big neighbour and go for an ally so far away?

I get this argument from many people in Russia – it should all be blamed to Saakashvili. Ok, let's blame it on him – what's out of it? I have not voted for him and personally deslike him for the things he has done for the country! but what really pisses me off is that none of the Russians have regretted what the Russian troops have done in Georgia! I should not say none, but most of the comments I have glanced through posted by Russian nationals, and on TV Russians say that Russia had to do it! Had to bomb Georgia and kill people!

It is a terrible thing that Georgia started a military operation in South Osetia, regardless the provokations and to some extent some explotions arranegd by so called "peace-keepers" – as many inocent people have been killed because of that! But big Russia has made sure that this number goes up and beyond the conflict zone.

Kirril, surf the web and read history – Abkhazia and Samachablo have been part of Georgi since the period before Russia even came to existence..

2 Dmitry, with all respect, we did not have Saakashvili when we lost Apkhazia. There would be no need of NATO for georgians if Russia would have a slight respect for our nation.

Hmm, well, Chechnija... Generally speaking, yeah, that's a black spot in our reputation. Double standards can be clearly seen here... But!!

Chechnija and S. Ossetia/Abkhazia are clearly different cases. While S. Ossetia/Abkhazia enjoy some sort of autonomy inside Georgia, they do not actively seek for a separation. Prior to this whole mess both regions were still considered hot places on the map, but they coexisted with Georgia in a relatively peaceful way.

In Chechnija, on the other hand, after declaring their independence back in 1992, the so called "Chechen Republic of Ichkeria" failed to organize a civilzed type of entity due its economical limitations and intended to build a national republic exclusively for chechen population. In the process, Chechnija became the place where all series of robberies and violations were being commited. Money laundering, drug traffic, the resale to the offshore of Russian oil coming from Siberia are just some of the activities performed back in those days. What seriously worsened the situation was the scenario of "Chechnija for chechens", even when a lot of ethnic Russians were living in the rogue republic. Killings, rapes, kidnappings, systematic ethnic cleansing. Several years after the invasion of Chechnija, the capture of Groznij (poorly planned by the military, by the way), the war was still going and the militias tried to transfer the battle to Russian territory. That's when the bombings in Moscow residential buildings ocurred, the capture of hostages at Nordost and in Beslan (also poorly handled by the Russian special force, lots of dead hostages) and other terrorist acts.

I'm not saying that Russia was impecable in that conflict. Lots of Russian policitcs gor their pockets filled with lots of dirty money from that hole. Lots of atrocities were equaly commited by the Russian military the same as the militias over there. Lotsa lotsa innocent people, civil population suffered and died. But that was a very different conflict. No comparison with S. Ossetia/Abkhazia.

What I want to say. Russia became more and more powerful, now Putin and Medvediv can say NO to USA, Russia became really independent in its decisions, not like it was in 90's. Please ask yourself about your feelings if you lived in South Ossetia and somebody brakes your home and you cannot do anything against it. After this simple question you'll understand Russia and the objectives of its mission in South Ossetia.

To Kirill

May I answer on your question instead Vova. But first, I would like to say that we Georgians do not have anything against the russian people, just people but with goverment's action and requirements toward us. Never forget that Georgia is as old country as Greece. There were hard times when some parts of Georgia because of enemy invasions were separated and running by themselves but such stuation was true for west and east Georgia not south Osetia. It always was part if east Georgia. Our country counts more than 1500 years so it much more than 80 years. If you mean the years that we spent under the Red Soviet Union let me explain that it was not our free choice but we were forced to do so and there was no way out, we all know.
Yes, South Osetia was always independent part of Georgia, you can check the history for this. What about Abkhazia it is the oldest part of Georgia. Why is it separated now and why Abkhazians were willing to live separately?- Well that's the politics of Soviet Union, they always knew there was a thread for republics to go out the union, so they did not needed to have strong republics around the Russia because they had to keep a chanse to build the Impery again.
Fortunately, this the 21st century and the democrasy is blowing. It is kind of a short course in history but if you look through books you will find the answer more precisely.
And do not forget that Georgia is multination country and Georgian hospitality is well known all over the world, We all live in the small piece of land as ine community , one family. Also when Georgiams are united as one whole it is unrealistically strong.
We are peaceful nation and we are happy that through our history there is no one story when we invaded other nation even in the mid history, We only fight when we have to defend ourselves.

Dear All

You can support Russia or Georgia....but the only thing we have to care about is people who suffer from the conflict. I see only one person who is guilty in the situation – Georgian President. It was he who started killing his own people bombing them at night. Yes, Russian respond was cruel but it is the only way to defend people of Ossetia. I read a lot of interviews with Georgian people and 90% of them blame Saakashvile.

Saakashvili – sadistic killer, war criminal.
In South Ossetia perish thousands people – Russian people.

All your troubles are because of Saakashvili, because he sold Georgia to USA.

sorry, but you're wrong

It's all georgians 200 years old dream – FREEDOM!
Georgia without Russian tanks!

I am from Abkhazia, u know how many Georgians were exciled from their homeland? 70000, and it happened by the help of Russian "peacekeepers", how can Russia know what the peace is? Russian citizens-they say, who are Russian citizens, the people who were forced to take Russian passports??? What about Saakashvili, he is the president of Georgia and this is Georgian people who have to decide who will be their president!!!

just a question. Where are the 2000 bodies that were supposed to be killed in south osetia? I only saw a single coffin on tv. if the excuse to invade a country is to stop the mass killing. where are those killings?
I think that is another lie coming from Rusia, If that bodies had ever exist , all media would recorded in a second,

It was really an interesting article, in which the author has tried to come close to the truth. And even more interesting is to read your comments. Really, guys, some of the comments are brilliant.
Take for example the one by Brau. He pushes it a little, but you know what, in today's world anything is possible.
It is a pleasure to find out that not all the americans and europeans are brainwashed, and still are capable of analysis and of simple and humane feelings. It is a pity that my georgian neighbours still cannot wake up from the spell that a con artist Saakashvili has put on them. I really like Georgians, and I have many georgian friends in Vladikavkaz and other parts of Russia, and the last thing I want is to see is Georgian mothers crying over their dead sons. But this time it was you, the Georgians who should take part of the blame for electing the kind of a leader, that you have. His actions led to mass killings of civilians, which is a crime in itself, and he has only humiliated himself and the country he took responcibility to lead. It was Georgia who started the aggression and this assault was a premeditated murder. It has been very well planned, georgian artillery had known every square inch of the territory it was covering by shells, mortar mines and Grad rockets. As well planned was the timing. Georgian generals must have planned to finish the affair in one day, when the whole world was elated and distracted by the opening of the Olympics.
But enough of that. The worst thing is that neither Georgia, nor his American masters have uttered a word of condolenses or regret about hundreds and hundreds of lives including the lives of women, children and old people who never carried a weaponin their lives. What a scale of hypocricy and cynicism!!!

to the Georgian guys in this conversation

Tell us the truth, guys, but the complete truth! Do you have real evidence of bombings of Poti and Gori by the Russian Army? If you do, then please, tell us where to find it. We do not know whom to believe. The Western media says that Russia is invading Gruzija, Russian media says Russia is not invading. Who's right and who's wrong? Maybe somebody is from one of those "bombed" cities and we want your testimoy. Please, help us open our eyes.

Now, a little excercise. I mean, reallistically, let's think all together. Where is the need for Russia to invade Gruzija? Why do we need it? Apart from getting a huge pain in the nuts from Georgy, Condy, Dick and after them Johnny Mac or the Messiah guy and all those dudes, where is our need to invade Georgia? Do they have oil? Well, yeah, some transportation pipelines, but we have plenty of our own oil in Siberia! What else? Ohh, crap, the membership in NATO and the positioning of the Defense System! Nah, the yanks can put their rockets in Czech Rep and nobody will stop em. Let them have fun! Besides, Ukraine is in the same situation as Gruzija with the NATO stuff and we are not bombing Kiev! Come on, people, be real!!

As we understand it, Gruzija bombed and killed our peacekeepers and people with Russian passports in Tskhinvali. I think that is reason enough to get some behinds kicked specifically in Tskhinvali, but not in Gori or Poti and stuff like that. That is what we did. At least that is what the picturesque ladies and gentlement, imprisoned in the TV box, say.

Tell me different. Give me some other true facts. Correct if I'm wrong!

To Dmitry,
Dear Dmitry, I understand what you are saying... But look at this on other side. Well you say that Russia creates troubles because of Mikheil Saakashvili? How do yu think is it true?
We are indepedence country and that means that we have choice to make our own desicion, at least to choose the president right? But you say that Russia makes a trouble because of Mikheil Saakashvili, and at the same time you prove by these words we Georgian have to ask Russia, do you like our president? Can we choose him/her? That's not a democracy.
Do you remember the years 1900-2000? We did not strike to Nato and US, well you may say but you did more?- You required independence and that's why Russia played a role in Abkhazia and made you to loose one of the part of Georgia. All precondtions for implementation of this plan was put in the politics of Soviet Union. Can you say who governed the Soviet Union? -Russians
Russia can not admit our independence, because it was to keep its position in Caucasus and it would be hard to do so.
But is it right? US will not buy the tickets for us to Nato but at least it did not punish us for our independence.
Do you think Russia's thought it right toward the Georgians? Do you think that Russia wants us a parthner country, never, it even can not admit to have the president who is elected by Georgians. President Medvedev said directly when he ordered to ceasethe fire: " The mission is complete, The aggresor (Georgians) is punished and they have enourmous damages". But who is aggresor, we, georgians? it was true that the fire was opened from the side of Osetian sepratists and Geprgians responded to at least defend themselves. He said that we violated the citizens of Russia. on the other hand why the people and how do they have russian's pasports if they live in South Osetia, I have not heard that south osetia is Russian federation?
And another question, you argue that 1 bln in Georgian army was paid, invested by US, but did not Russia support with equipment, heavy technics the Osetian teparatists?
Can you answer me on that question?

2 Vova_Tbilisi,

First, I’m sorry for my English, I’m not so well experienced in it as you, nevertheless I hope you’ll understand me.

I have nothing against you or Georgian people? I’ve got some good friends who are the ethnic Georgians but:

Some true and already prooved facts do exist:

- Georgia used systems of volley fire “Grad” against the sleeping city which is situated very compactly last Thursday in the night. I saw it with my eyes during direct translation that night (a day later CCN showed those pictures as Russians bombed Georgia!). What do you think, are those systems a sort of sniper rifles? They cover up to 30 hectares of square just by one “shot”! And Zhinvali was fired by dozens of such systems! Isn’t it a war crime in your opinion? I’m not even talking that Georgia had no any right to have such weapons in the zone of conflict by UN rules.
- Georgian militaries shot at Russian peacekeepers who had the mandate of UN at that moment. Georgian militaries used artillery, air planes and tanks against our peacekeepers who had only light arms. Georgian militaries killed wounded Russian peacekeepers. All of these are the already PROOVED facts! Isn’t it a war crime?
- Georgian militaries intruded into South Ossetia braking all the agreements and international laws using tanks, warplanes, artillery etc against the city.

And only 20 hours (!!!) later Russia did its action.

I don’t believe a propaganda a lot, all this time I’ getting the information from all the sources: Russians, Geogians, western. I assume that figures of casualties are exaggerated. I assume that some brutalities of Georgians are just arrogated to Georgians… BUT:

- Russian investigators who now work in Ossetia have a hundreds corpses of citizens, children, women.. They have 200 Georgian war prisoners.. They have 15,000 of witnesses.. They have the entire destroyed city of proofs! Don’t you really think that they will not prove the fact of genocide??? Having such base they’ll prove everything and very-very soon!

NO PASARAN, RUSSIA!

I compared CNN, BBC, Reuters, and some Russian agencies this week. In my humble opinion, CNN is an absolute looser. Today i wanted to find out is this looser becoming any better when the war is over. No, it is not. The only honest and sincere page here is this discussion (not the article, it is as bad as usual). I am sure that CNN will not show the discussion for a long time. It will be hided as all other honest public opinions to make it easier to manipilate with American brains..

It is pure manifestation of absurdity in its peak reading statements made by people about Georgia that are so devoid of reality, it is impossible to keep straight face! By account of one of the Russian polls, most Russians think of Georgia as a muslim country with 50-60 million population. Please, read and educate yourself slightly beyond the propaganda being dumped on you daily before passing judgments that defy logic! Russia would have started this war no matter what, whether here or in Abkhazia no matter what; this is how they punish expression of free will of more than 70% of people of this country that voted for NATO membership. And most importantly, keep in mind some figures before making absurd statements that someone does not want to be a part of Georgia: Abkhazs have conducted ethnic cleansing in Abkhazia in 2004 and expelled 250,000 Georgian out of this region, so that now 80,000 people can claim independence; only a week ago South Ossetia had population of roughly 50-60 thousand, out of which roughly half were ethnic Georgians with no Russian passports, with no desire whatsoever to be part of anything other than Georgia. So by the same token, why is it that Russian can defend their fake citizens in conflict that they have instigated themselves, while Georgia cannot protect its own constituency on the same territory? The point is: Russia wanted to invade Georgia at all costs and would have done it under one pretext or the other: they killed half of Chechen population after themselves blowing up apartment buildings in Moscow; do you really think they care about Georgians?!?! and one more thing (I have just copied this, but this indeed conveys the mood):

"On 28-29 March 1938 Hitler (Putin) held a series of secret meetings in Berlin (Moscow) with Konrad Henlein (Eduard Kokoiti) of the Sudeten Heimfront (South Ossetia), the largest of the ethnic German parties of the Sudetenland. During the Hitler-Henlein (Putin-Kokoiti) meetings, it was agreed that Henlein (Kokoiti) would provide the pretext for German (Russian) aggression against Czechoslovakia (Georgia) by making demands on Prague (Tbilisi) for increased autonomy for Sudeten Germans (South Ossetia) that Prague could never be reasonably expected to fulfill. In April 1938, Henlein (Kokoiti) told the foreign minister of Hungary that “whatever the Czech government might offer, he would always raise still higher demands...he wanted to sabotage an understanding by all means because this was the only method to blow up Czechoslovakia (Georgia) quickly”.[99] In private, Hitler (Putin) considered the Sudeten issue unimportant; his real intentions being to use the Sudeten question as the justification both at home and abroad for a war of aggression to destroy Czechoslovakia (Georgia), under the grounds of self-determination, and Prague’s (Tbilisi's) refusal to meet Henlein’s (Kokoiti's) demands.[100] Hitler’s (Putin's) plans called for a massive military build-up along the Czechoslovak (Georgian) border, relentless propaganda attacks about the supposed ill treatment of the Sudetenlanders (South Ossetians), and finally, “incidents” between Heimfront activists and the Czechoslovak (Georgian) authorities to justify an invasion that would swiftly destroy Czechoslovakia (Georgia) in a few days campaign before other powers could act."

Well-well ...
"Russia using its vast military strength ... mostly because Georgia wants to join the EU and NATO." ... "Russia’s first military incursion into another country"
What do you know about ossetian's children killed by georgia's artillery? Do you remember about thousands ossetians who found a refuge in basements? Do you remember about parents who lost their children?
It seems, many-amny people belive on Georgia's bare word about Russian intervention. But seeing is believing. Look at this:
It's a really video from war. Video about Georgia's troops and about murderers

http://war.georgia.su/

CNN tell lies all the time.

There is Other Russia people read position of Russians:
http://www.theotherrussia.org/2008/08/11/russian-opposition-on-the-war-in-georgia-official-statement/

Wow...bravo! All this is written by Russians? Who knows about real reasons and real facts? How did you know all that facts? Did you read Georgian history or were taught at schools? No of course. Who told you then that Apxasia and so called South Osetia were never parts of Georgia? Do you know that Apxazian people use to have the same language and writing until Chruchov changed it for them into Cirilitsa (Cyrilic)? Same happened also to many little ethnics in Caucasus?..and that it tried in 1978..to change Georgian constitution "correcting" that their official language is Russian!!! And failed! Did you know that so called south Osetia never existed until Stalin (half Osetian himself) gave them independent autonomy? And do you know that at that times there were only 8 Osetian families in Tsxinvali? Do you know that all the people who lived in that very old piece of Georgian land were ethnic Georgians and mixed up with some Osetians and only some, little number of separatist criminals ,aided by Russians long before 2008 started so called war for Independence. Where this 30 000 people refugees came from? And with Russian passports? What were they doing in the country with who Russia holds a "visovoi rejim" and that is mutual for both sides...so what they were doing there without "visa" and/or residence permit from Georgian Government? Or is it not any more Recognized as a part of a whole country? Who give them status of independent republic already? Who has recognized them or their illegitimate government so called president Kokoity (Russia's low and behold servant) when elections were held there without participating 300 000 Georgian and mixed Georgian-Osetian population who fled from that area in 1992...Yes Comrades..or tovarishchei if you like...why everybody "forgets" to mention 300 000 thousand Georgian refugees from that area who had to left the so called "south Osetian" autonomic republic in 1992 after a handful of Osetian and Chechen separatist "boeviks" backed by Russian army and all kind of mercenaries (paid by Russian side of course!) start killing and harassing local peaceful people?
By the way same time in 1992 same thing happened in Apxasia... 250 000 refugees fled to Georgian inland...same plot! Russian weapons, Russian solders, Russian tanks and planes!! I Who are this "Apxasians" which are there now?Some group speaks language and in their language they speak there is no word like "sea" . They use it as "more" from Russian. Ask them please how comes that people who has been living at the Black Sea coast for centuries do not have an original word for it? Maybe because....because that group of people living there pretending that they are the original Apxasians have descended from the high mountains of Caucasus, from the north side were they had no need for such words like :the sea, oranges,tangerines....because there were not such things in their land! As for Russians claims about helping poor Apxazians again...tell me please who are now in Apxazia? Most people there have Georgian family names! Yes...except some of above mentioned criminals who point proudly their finger that they came from the north (Caucasus ,not Russia) population mostly have Georgian (Megrelian names-and don't say now they also are not Georgians!) and they have Russian passports and they speak Russian...their mother tongue is Russian. The result of Russification which was imposed by Russians during many years and ignored by Georgian Commie-leaders! What an interesting combination of ""Apxaz"" we have here...Georgian name (because they used to be a real old , pure Georgian tribes!) , Russian language and Russian passport! How comes!
And who is speaking about ethnic cleansing ...with 300 000 refuges from Camachablo (so called s.Osetia) and 250 000 from Apxazeti (real name!) with lots of dead and injured in 1992 You have big mouth to call anyone else makes "genocide"?
Leave this people in peace!!! Can so called "Peace keepers" be one sided only when in their presence every day there was still going on harassment, killing, kidnapping and abusing of Georgian civilians. Not long ago in Apxazian outskirts close to "border" they used to press to close still existent Georgian school.Threatening teachers if they will not take Russian passports they must leave to were ever they want....
Please read history...but not the one damaged by Kremlin propaganda! If you are laze than remember Chechnya! Beslan! It has happened not so long ago! Why don't Russia let Chechnya gain their independence ? Are its "Human loving" and "Protecting their citizens" spreading only against Georgian And I repeat again Georgian orientated population only? And here I mean Georgian Osetians and Georgian Apxasians with whom Georgians lived and will live!!
Let theses people make their future without Russia's imperialistic hands! Let all the refugees back! This is what Russian "peacekeepers" prevent in these two above mentioned regions! That's what they are there for!
Let all this people return in their homes and then ask them were and how they want to be!
PS. President Saakashvili has tried to protect some of the villages which were under the permanent fire from Osetian side. After and only after Russian tanks and military crossed the border! Everybody saw how Russian solders bombed peaceful cities far from the conflict area.

The only village which did not suffer from bombing in the Tsxinvali war was a little village were Putins mother and half sisters live! Ask him was it because he has something human still left or was it just a coincidence? Was he so abused as a little boy in his childhood which he spend in a little Georgian village that he destroyed all the area (far from the conflict zone!!) in order to revenge?
Psps.President Saakashvili addressed his people in His Language! He used English and By the way also French when he had to speak with foreign correspondents! Is it also a crime now by Russian Propaganda?! Don’t be ridiculous people! You beloved Putin also speaks German with Germans. By the way he learned it when he used to work as a Communist spy in Germany!

Some questions:
Why Russia has problem only with Georgia?
Russia does not have military conflicts with other neighbors.
Why those problems were enhanced after Saakashvili came to power?
Why Georgian army was scattered so fast? They even left Gory and flew away without sufficient resistance.

What is Bush, and the Americans in general complaining about? Is this the kind of "my back yard" policy the US employed for 200 year already? Grenada, Panama, Cuba? What about Iraq? And Serbia?

The Georgians ATTACKED South-Ossetia, period! The Russians give them a lesson, period.

The US, and the EU also, made the stupid mistake of recognising the independence of another country province (even if some EU countries still didn't do it). The Russians warned that it was wrong and a bad idea! Now they are doing the same. It's the provinces of another country, with a population who don't want to live in that country. What's the difference with Kosovo? Double standards?

Gal from Georgia,

Russia doesn't defend from NATO but should prevent any possibilieties to have NATO at Russian borders.

Russia is imperialistic not more than USA or China. You know that USA try to be everywhere and control everything. Why we should simply look at it as Europe looks and afraid to say smth agains.

We have already bombed and splitted Yugoslavia, Iraq. Kosovo is main territiory in Europe for drugs traffic from Afghanistan. What next...

Very very very very sorry about people from South Ossetia (and this all after Beslan in North Ossetia)!!!! Sorry about Georgians!

Stories of people form South Ossetia and Georgia and their suffering should be shown (see note from Mikhail above) and not the populistic demagogic president (or even insane?) who is stuck in the year 1979. One can repeat million times that he is a democrat (and be called by another as such), but anyone will be juged by his actions. How somebody can seriosly believe that Russia wants or needs to invade (or join) EU – European community of perpetually discussing ministers governing aging population and pensioners?

I pray that good people in the world get information about what happend and a chance to change their minds.

Article is missing the point. Putin does not care about popularity outside Russia! Yes. Inside – is completly different story!

I have a theory:

There is new Russia and its soliders are born not in 1968. They even have not seen Soviet times. They are truly new Russia, they read Internet, they like to play footbal in Europe, they like to travel in the world and sing "belive me" (or something like this) on Eurovision. Yes, they have to be further educated, but they are not from 1968 or 1956.

Those who are still silent about South Ossetia are still between 1956 and 1979. New Russia is not from these times, and even not from the year 1999 or 2004. New Russia 2008 is fighting REALLY just for its people and its truly democratic future. Russians do not want to fight or force any other country to join any union and their land is not needed. Russians want just to enjoy secure life like everyone in Europe.

It seems that Georgian people indeed would like to fight and get two regions at any costs (including human life) and their leader reflects this desire. I do no know how to solve this other than by reading the bible and waiting. All Europe was oppening for Georgian people but their leader swoped it for revanche. Germany has alredy tried to collect its lands in the XX century at any costs. We know the result and only time and peace can help here. We are not any more in the XX or XIX century where demographic situation allowed European wars. No. Each state in Europe is now protecting each citizen. Demand for good citizens is great. Russia is just obliged to protect its citizens otherwise they will go to Europe or US or change the government, they can. Therefore, if there are Russian citizens somewhere inbetween leaders collecting lands at human costs they should take into account that killing is not a solution and can be punished. US and Europe were first forced by life or eldering population to introduce this rule and play the game. Russia is following.

Does it make sence?

..Robin Oakley, you deserve a medal from the Kremlin. When they finish pressing Georgia, you may come to Moscow to get your award. Russian tanks are now on the Georgian territory, their sniper has just shot a journilist working live. Why don't you, Robin, come to Georgia and see everything with your own eyes?

Hallo Annette! Very interesting! I knew about Putin ,his communist spy past in Germany and also about his childhood spent in a little Georgien village. I have seen a documentary film made by German/Russian film makers interviewing his mother and so on....but the summary of Georgean-Abxazian-Osetian relations was new...I did not know they were one whole country before Communists...Thank you very much! I will read some history!
Best Regards
Ralf historic himself

"One my friend, who lives in Georgia, told me that they were payed about 6$ for coming to the meeting, which took place on the central square of Tbilisi the day before yesterday"

Sorry but only brainless man, who is wandering in the darkness can say this funny words, man who has no ideas about Georgian people, and History, I have been to Georgia for 2 years and I have not one friend, as the author of this nonsense has,(but it’s a lie, he has no friends I’m sure) I have very many friends and I have know this nation better than any of you who did this comment, know the History of this Country. All Georgians there were ready to die for their country, this is the way this nation went for the period of their existence, otherwise they wouldn’t be on the earth today, the thing is that US and Russia have their interests but Georgians have their strong arguments and have to defend their land, the History is the following : No word is said about the fact ,that This part of Georgia was SAMACHABLO (Machabeli was a Georgian princely house (tavadi) which held a large fiefdom (satavado) in the province of Inner Kartli (central Georgia) called Samachablo after their family name. The owner of this place, and all Georgians who lived there where working in his land, in 17 centuries these poor Ossetian people who even didn't have their letters to write and where as jungles and didn't have their historical place to live and wanted to have any place to live and to be save from enemy were accepted, welcome, as Georgian are famous for their hospitability and they where allowed to live there, and Georgian people helped them for 3 centuries to feel themselves as a nation. BUT, in 1921 Russia came and occupied free Georgia, and they called them as “Autonomic Republic of Ossetia”, they did this because, they knew Georgian were too brave and will do anything to be against being slaves of Russia, and they made this part of Georgia( like Apkhazia) as potential hot points, if it would be necessary, and when Soviet Union broke and Georgia said we want FREEDOM ,Russian Comunists came and did everything to provoke war as if it was between Georgian and Ossetian people,(the same is with Abkhazia ) than all Georgians had to leave their houses, and lived as REFUGEES in other parts of Georgia and especially in Gory, which is near to SAMACHABLO, these people have no houses any more and for 12 ,13 years they are waiting and waiting,to get their hoeuses back, houses that was occupied by Ossetians ,of course by the help of Russian "peacekeepers", who did and are doing everything to be with this jungles ,who were given face of human beings by Georgians for centuries, and for these years they do horrible things everyday in Georgian villages near by, before our forces started to defend their country, they began to kill Georgians, and even bombed villages, nobody says this reason, they only say that Georgia started and killed Ossetian people, and poor people are now refugees, I repeat, they lived in the houses that belonged to Georgian people who are refugees for many many years, this is very little part of the whole truth and now, in the region of Gori, where as Russians say that is under their control, those Ossetian Jungles kill people, take them to kill for their dead relatives, take everything that they like, cars ,hundreds of cows, everithing that were in the shops, take everything from the houses, and so on...and nobody protects them.The most horrible thing is that they take girls..... Russian "peacekeepers" are with them and laughing at Georgians who have no gun to defend themselves, while all Ossetians had Russian guns when Georgian forces entered Tskhinvali, even children had guns, of different kinds, and women and old people had guns. Russians gave them and left them there. Instead of take them away.

Dmitry,

NATO is already on Russia's borders. Check your maps.

So by your perception someone else if in your view imperialistic, it makes it ok for everyone else?

Nice high road. Give my regards to Chechenya.

Regarding Oseetia. Fine give Ossetia its freedom, but give it to Chechenya as well. Or are the Chechens less worthy of freedom?

V

I represent the country that know´s what it is to be against Russia, allthough it was USSR that attacked Finland at the beginning of the winter war between us and Russia. After 5 year´s of war we survived as an independend country, that is something that equall´s a win, at least to me.

I think that western world, U.S preticcilary, underestimates Russia, today´s Russia is a powerfull nation, a nation that will defend itself. Georgia´s president tried to tease Russia and thought that he would get NATO and U.S. to tell russian´s to stop it right now, but he was wrong in at least two thing´s:
1; Nato and U.S. didn´t come to responce as strongly as he thought and
2; Russia can and will ignore what western nation´s say and do, it´s a strong nation with huge military power and they couldn´t care less of what other´s think about them, especially after all this time when NATO and U.S. has been excluding and humiliating Russia by expanding Nato to east and building shield´s in eastern european countries near russian border.

I dont in any mean`s support russias action´s, I just understand what let to this situation. I hope that all the countries included in this conflict, the once in it and the once´s taking side´s realize that it´s better to end soon before it escalates to a huge, worldwide conflict, if that would happend it woud affect us too. I would hate to see my country in a war against´s Russia again, but if neccessary, we would fight back as we did earlier...

War is not an option to resolve any issue or conflict. Russia must withdraw its forces from Georgia Immediately. However, Georgia's control over South Ossetia and Abhkhazia in no longer exists after this war. The future of South Ossetia and Abhkhazia must be discussed in UN.

This is much more balanced reporting than I have seen anywhere on this issue thus far. We are on the wrong side of this situation if we are supporting Georgia – and it seems we are. Georgia instigated this action and the Russians responded. We should've expressed concern over the situation, offered the Russians our support, and condemned Georgia for its aggression. Our relationship with Russia is far too important in the current world climate to jeopardize in this way. American foreign policy has always been about spreading the cause of democracy around the world, and denouncing those who are not on board with our form of government. But we cannot afford such a policy in the 21st century. We should be more interested in building alliances with other countries so long as their interests do not conflict with ours. And the use of force to take what you want should always be condemned. Georgia was wrong and got what it deserved.

Georgia President is a criminal hiding in a cloth of democracy and using media as a show. He is the first president acting like a newscaster delivering false information. He said USA will taking control over his country airports and seaports? Is he giving up is so called "DEMOCRACY". If he truly know the meaning of democracy he will let the people of south ossetia and abkhazia decide on the future. that is democracy people decide who and want to be.

I am Ukrainian (live in Russia) and I have relatives in North Ossetia (the place where refugees from South Ossetia moved to when they were brutally attacked in the night from side of Georgia). Talking to different people who have found a temporal sanctuary at Russia (North Ossetia) this becomes evident what has happen… Georgia wanted to strengthen in South Ossetia, but, seems that they did not want that people who live on that land. A type of weapon they used (grad?) attacking Tshinvalli is not supposed to destroy targets precisely. It covered a significant part of a sleeping city. Some of Tshinvali citizens were trying to hide in bunkers of Russians peacekeepers or basements when the bombing has started and ran away to Russia through the tunnel in the mountain when it became feasible…

Trying to get rid of emotions (what is really difficult to do) I imagine what could happen if Russia did not move their regular army into South Ossetia and Georgia, how many civilians could die in that case if they do not do it. Russia called for UN Security Council when the bombing of Tshinvalli has started, but the council did not do anything to stop Georgia from elimination of population in South Ossetia.

What other Russia should do then just saving thousands of people in South Ossetia (including Russian peacekeepers and a lots of Russian passport holders who live in South Ossetia) by their own when the rest of the world did not want to look at it?

It is pity to see such preconceived position of western mass media. The most of the world is discussing on how to punish Russia just irritating Russians more who strongly believes in their Right (not only because of Russian media and press which is not unbiased either) but because it personally touches the majority of people.

I see that Russians (talking about ordinary people) did not want this war with Georgia and take it as personal tragedy. This is a 3 days mourning announced today in Russia.

(Sorry for my English)

Dear Kirill!

I appreciate your partiotic feelings but please read history. A real history not Kremlin propaganda!
you write:

Kirill August 14th, 2008 1334 GMT

to Vova_Tbilisi
“Always was indivisible part of Georgia.” “Always” means 80 years?

Answer to that is that -There was no south Osetia such as before the Red Revolution by the simple reason that there were not more than couple of Osetians t living there at that times! That part of land has been and is still called "Samachablo" and all later was invented by your "beloved" Stalin and red communists....
I am really sorry that many really open minded Russian people are misleaded and confused...Please just try to find other sources as well than Russian Demagogic propaganda! There may be some other "truce" except "your truce"!

Some people sincerely think that swift and substantial Russian response to Georgian attack in South Ossetia indicated that Russian military operation was already planned and perhaps just waiting for a suitable excuse.

I'd like to tell those people, that although their logic is understandable (indeed, Russian organization is often quite poor, and swift and coordinated reaction is a rarity), nevertheless in this particular case there was a special military actor (not directly related to Georgia or its breakaway provinces), which guaranteed swift and solid reaction:.

There was a whole army, in good shape, and standing in good readiness for many years very near – in North Ossetia, just over the border – and the prime responsibility and sphere of operations of this army was not Georgia or even South Ossetia, but neighboring Chechnya (this army fought in Chechnya from long ago (many than 10 years).

Interestingly, though, that apparently both sides of the conflict were taken by surprise despite their full prior knowledge of relevant circumstances. First, Russian/Ossetian side was taken by surprise by Georgian attack despite that they knew well of Georgians amassing troops near South Ossetia border (and loudly complained about that). Then, American/Georgian side was taken by surprise by Russian swift and large-scale counter-attack, despite that
they knew well about Russian army standing in readiness nearby.

Oh, swarm of Russkis have gathered here, as I see! You are accusing Georgians for entering South Ossetia (historical Georgian SOil) Didin't you do the same in Chechnia? Only worse, you simply killed 1/3 of Chechen people simply because they demanded independence! And were the bodies of 2000 people of women and children as you claim Georgians killed? Show me the evidence! I think you don't have it. But Georgians have plenty of evidance of Russian barbarism, including thousands of false Russian passports to be habnded out to Ossetians to say "Oh this are our citizens and we had to defend them!"

This article is somewhat balanced, but it still lacks objectivity. Realpolitics does not me we have to be cynical. There no account for people who were killed. I do not think you are objective.

US should stop supporting Georgia at any cost and must tell Saakashvilli to stop blaming Russia for all its troubles. It is not in US and EU interest to alienate Russia. The carrot in the form of WTO, G8 or any other unions and associations is not gonna work. It is better to work with Russia to encourage its support for democracy.
Everybody say that Georgia is democracy, while forgeting that Russia is no less democratic than Georgia. Well you may say it is different in Russia, but how can you tell us that about Georgia when it president did not care about its people when he started this obvious failure, and attacked S. Ossetia. Democracy is about responsible leaders who understand the consequences of their actions. I have watched Saakashvilli's speachs. He spoke English to Georgian crowd, i wonder if every Georgian speaks English . This obviously suggests that he was aiming to the audience outside Georgia. His so called "facts" were untrue and misleading. However, journalists (esp BBC, CNN, Reuters) did not care to verify facts. This is sad. I thought BBC, to less extend CNN are professionals not propaganda machine, but .. .

The current situation in Georgia is not a surprise at all given the re-distribution of wealth in the last eight years. While some people blame US and others the West, in my view, it is a classic turn of
' macro economic' events. How else would a nation feel more power ful? From Russia, to China to India, the current wielding of power comes from prosperity. While the West could deride the upcoming powers in fear of their own prosperity, It is important that the west and east collaborate for sharing prosperity. The 'ego' problem between the west and east is likely to cause major conflicts. Diplomacy reigns and is the best bet.

On anothe note, what does one gain by talk of wars, economic isolation or conquering new lands? One should look at prosperous countries that are really small..eg. Switzerland, Singapore etc. The point is, that countries can grow so much more powerful and prosperous and wealthy. There reaches a point, that economic power and wealth does not lead to hapiness but more trouble. In this philosophical context, we must embrace humility and take a bit of human approach and reconciliation.

bush and putin = hitler and stalin

there are some mistakes, first – georgia did not attack south osetia firts – first russian tanks entered the territory.. and now russian army is conducting illegal actions , burgling, rubbing and devastating everything. sorry for my english ... we – georgians survived after invasions of monguls, ottomans, persians, arabs, and others who disperced in time so clearly we will survive and overlive these evil empire too...

saakhavilli has got to go. he failed. he is trying to twist the truth around against the russians. . georgia is very lucky that ajaria did not take advantage and try to separate . or javakh,too. by saakhvilli's foolish ruse ,(which killed many innocent people)trying to gain territory lost territory. the georgian people would be smart to remove saakhasvilli.

no offence to anyone ,seeking peace and truth, salut to everyone

@Gal from Georgia: "but what really pisses me off is that none of the Russians have regretted what the Russian troops have done in Georgia! "

What is this that Russian did? Have you been (personally) witnessing any of the barbaric actions from Russian militaty personal or at least have you seen anyone who was?

Too bad US Gov spent my tax money on miltary toys for this guy which russians are taking over now to destroy it.

Russia needs to realize they aren't a super power anymore. Their petro dollars won't last for long. And when will the Russian people seek real democracy?

Oh well. Russia wants the US to pick Georgia or Russia? Georgia every day, all day.

One house was destroyed in New-York 11 sept.
07/08/08 – 08/08/08 Saakashvili attacked by missiles and tanks the city Tshinvali in Osetia and killed 1500 sleeping peoples. Destroyed the city Tshinvali.

What answer to Saakashvili is adequate?

Tribunal in Nuernberg and hanging. IMHO.

Thanks russians. They stop Fuhrer Saakashvili, save Oseitia from genozid.

Help Tshinvali !

to Kirill

no Kirill, in sentence “South Ossetia has always been indivisible part of Georgia”, "always"doesn't mean 80 years. it means longer time gap, begining from the early Georgian kingdom of Kartli (Iberia) around 300BC up today.
"South Ossetia" with status of administrative-teritorial entity as such hadn't existed untill Bolsheviks set up "Autonomous Oblast of South Ossetia" in 1922 (within Georgian SSR). Naither before it was independent, nor since then it has ever been independent (I mean De Jure).
you can easily find corresponding info on this issue on the web if interested.

East Slav People must be in one fist to be safe from any agressor. The History proves it. West Ukraine (catolics) has right to live by their philosophy and South-East Ukraine (orthodox) has right to live by their own. No matter how borders will change (people and freedom of choice are more important than those stupid borders). It seems to me South-East Ukraine (orthodox) has to united with Russia to be proudly one great family in safe, fair and conscience.
By the way East Slav civilization many times save World out of agressors when all the rest countries was down.

I can tell you that as far as I know for the last 10 years or so Russia has equipped and encouraged the Ossetian and Abkhazian separatists to continuously bombard villages inside the Georgia "proper" because the gang of ex-KGB generals in the Kremlin wants to provoke a full-scale war in the Caucasus in order to take over Georgia and then, eventually, oil-rich Azerbaijan.

The article is so so. But i think Saakashvilli is a real Clown, thought NATO will start the Third World War (nuclear) with Russia for his – Saakashvilli interests – this guy was "high" when ordered to attack russian peacekeepers and osetians on 8 august 2008.

Well, I can not read some of the comments and not gave an answer. I am so sorry that russian youths are fed with the historical lies like that Stalin gave georgians the land of South Osetia and maybe Abkhazia also. Well, I guess that's the way of politics like that fact of announcing Georgians as aggressors in the today's situation. Mr. medvedev directly says that "Georgians are aggressors and The mission is fullfilled aggressors are punished and they exoperiences huge damage". I am not going to give a lecture in history, I just want to remind you that georgia is the oldest country like Greece and Rome and Abkhazia and so called South Osetia we call it Samachablo always were included. Abkhazia was separated in 1993 and Russia played a greatest role, actually it was the major player in that.
Just look through the current situation, a lot of question are active.
1. if Russia tried to defend its citizens and South osetians, why did it bomb and spread the war all around of Georgia? maybe to punish the aggressor?
2. if the war was not planned in advance by Russia, how come that it gathered all troops and erquipment just in a few hours?
3. How come that Abkhasian separatists were ready for that situation to open the second polygon for war?
4.If you blame and accuse US in financing the georgian army, did not russia do the same for Osetians and Abkhasians?
5. How come that the residents of South Osetians as you call were the citizens of russia, do they have double citizenship? How did they get russian passports?

Kokoiti was bombing Georgian villages,Avnevi and tamarasheni-settling ossetians, Saakashvili asked for help,he send minister Iakobashvili to Kokoiti for plural negotiations,but they denied,other days Russian respesentative Popovi asked Kokoiti to stop bombing civilians(ossetians too),but Mr. Popov's car was damaged-he reached To Tskinvali in the other days,but without result.Russian representative and peacekeeper Kulahmetov stated that they hadn't influence over the Separatis

This article finaly brings us more or less to the truth of what happended and what is going on. Yest, we continue applying double standartd and the situatino in Kosovo and Ossetian has many resemblences that Bush does not want to see. Allowing mass killings of Russian peacekeepers and civilians of Ossetian nationality by Georgian troops was a bad move by Saakashvili. Nothing will be achieved now with the two break away regions of Abhazia and Ossetia because people of these conties have seen what Georgeian military could do to them.

To Dimitry:
Your point is well taken, yes Russia figths against NATO's expansion and Georgia is located in that strategic place.
I don't think so we ever know the total truth behind the recent escalation, Georgians saying totally different story than Russians.
Historically Georgians always were Russians best allies, Georgian king ask Russia to save Georgian nation and we should not forget about it.
I am ethnic Georgian, I love my people as well as Russian, Ossetian, Abkhazian people (My wife is Russian), we lived in peace for centuries.
I wish we had smart enough leaders to understand that if we can sign some type of agreement between Russia and Georgia (for say 50 or 100 years) just to not harm each others interests there will be solution for the conflicts. After 50 or 100 years we may have no borders at all!!!
Shame on Saakashvilli and Putin, they hate each other and making decisions causing further detoriation of the relations of Georgian and Russian people. We, just regular people could make it work much better.

In the evening Saakashvili asked the whole Int.Community that his civilians were dieing, he stated'we must stop this mandess,but if they wouldn't we had no choice, that we would have all moral right according to the constitution and int.law to defence my peoples ossetians (Mr. Sanakoev is ossetian and is head of local goverment)and georgians'.but there was no reply.
He decided not to send Army, but he send there police and police strengthen in Georgian villages

"you don’t understand the difference between Hitler and Stalin. Hitler killed foreign people, but Stalin killed mostly soviet people."

I would think that killing your own people is not better than killing foreigners (to put it mildly). Besides, Stalin's regime did it on a much greater scale than Hitler. I undedrstand that during Putin's reign Russians are being told that Stalin was a great statesman, just made a few mistakes... Dear Russians, please understand your Eastern European neighbors – Soviets did not liberate them, they just replaced one totalitarian regime with another. Should Ukrainians be grateful to Stalin for the genocide through induced hunger in 1932-33? Or Baltic people for annexing their countries in 1940 and sending large percentage of their population to Siberia and replacing them with Russian settlers? Or the rest of Eastern Europe for importing communism and repressions to them after WWII?

Speaking of NATO, do you seriously think that pacifist and weak Europeans are going to attack Russia? NATO is an umbrella to unite Western democracies against the threat of authoritarian regimes. No wonder all Eastern European countries rushed there to get some kind of guarantee against something that happened with them in the past.

I support Russia who has just operated like any other democratic country of the 21st century, but still do promt for peace, cause war is the last thing we should want. Totaly do not believe that the armed forces could even think of even target Tbilisi... You ask why? Ask all those georgians who live in Russia... It's a pity we had to open fire, it's a great pity we were forced to use force. Russians know about war much more than any other country. We know what it is to live in basements, to fear sounds of the airplanes, we know what it is to see children dying of hunger in the street, we know how fragile is peace and how sweet is peace... But anyways, is it for us (readers) to judje the war that we haven't witnessed? It's quite simple to sit here and talk! Pack up your stuff, step out, take some food and clothes, a bag of love and move to the destroyed cities... The truth is out there. Make a report and say how awful it is to live in a war. Then ask yourself WHAT HAVE I DONE TO BRING PEACE? Ask yourself: how can destroyed homes and dead children bring peace and prosperity? Ask yourself if that's the way to prove the truth from anyside...

Very Fair and logical. the best one i have read during this conflict. Everything stated is the TRUTH from both players and assistants of this game.

Barbaric Russian aggression implemented by the murderous Kremlin officials will always stand out as a true face of current Putinized Russia. What they did to the Ossetians through their bombardments and Georgians, through ethnic cleansing will always choke these barbarians and stand in their way of taking a place of the superpower in the world. You Russian slaves have to understand that these days are the true beginning of the dissolution of the bloody Russian Empire. These Russians and Ossetian bands have been killing Georgian children and raping Georgian women in South Ossetia, Gori, Poti and other cities and villages of Georgia. The vendetta will come upon your heads. Mark my words, you barbarians!

I am surprised to see so many KGB part-time "commenters" below. Your propaganda is fine for your people enslaved in your huge territory called Russia, but don't waste your time trying to persuade American and not only American people that Georgia kills Russians and it's all Georgians' fault. Georgians fault is that they want independence. They want to be free from Russian empire and even if you won this battle, you will never win the war.
The only thing I want to say to normal (non KGB) people who read this article and comments – STOP RUSSIA TODAY OR TOMORROW THEY COME FOR YOU!

Russia v.s. Georgia
Make no mistake about it, if Western Europe and the United States do not remember history right, continue and allow former Soviet States such as Ukraine and others to possibly join Nato and the European Union all due to misguided foreign policies. I am afraid that this would lead to a further military conflict escalating to a major war. It is just a question of time.

To Gal from Georgia, Dmitry from Russia, Gabor and others.

It's sad to see when ordinary civil people (like you and me) arguing and trying to find the wisdom within historical and political acts and decisions, shouting who is worse Hitler or Stalin, Russia or US, who is more entitled for freedom – Kosovo, Ossetia, Chechnya or some other… .

Oil is very important, Money is extremely important, and the price for that always will be one – ordinary civil people’s lives.

Don’t try to accuse each other, you have done nothing bad. People who are responsible for those historical and political acts and decisions are not in this forum…

Look to that face on picture. He has steal a lot of things from Georgia.

"Gal from Georgia" said "what really pisses me off is that none of the Russians have regretted what the Russian troops have done in Georgia!".

You know, it's funny (I'm being sarcastic here) how the innocent 1500 lives lost to Georgian bombardment mean absolutely nothing to anyone in Georgia, nor in the United States. This is how the situation really looks:

-Georgia bombs innocent civilians for a period of almost 24 hrs (genocide).
-Russia comes in to protect, and bam!
"Russia! Shame on you! You are very very bad! Get your troops out of Georgia (when they weren't even there), stop bombing innocent people (when they weren't even doing so)! We're going to punish you, you horrible horrible imperialistic country who just wants all this land and is acting like Hitler. Russia is taking everyone back to the cold war! Russia is etc etc etc..."

You see where I'm getting at? America's response to 9/11 was 90% worse than Russia's was to this situation. Did anyone even peep when the U.S. bombed Iraq inside out? America's been facing "criticism" but where are the sanctions? Too many unpunished war crimes have been committed by the U.S. but hey, it's the U.S., you can't touch us. Don't you see the level of bias towards Russia? Don't you see the level of dishonesty? Drop all of your pride for Georgia and America, and just think like a human being... the truth will always prevail.

By the way, all of this Hitler's Germany is like Russia is way out of place. America needs a better education system since it thinks it's the same thing.

if we are really so "democratics" as we say, we should accept indipendence of s. ossetia and abkhazia. The "democratic" georgian leadership should accept this. But that leadership started violence against s. ossetia, and the same leadership used violence also to set opposition rallies in tblisi some months ago. Who can trust them yet?
Georgian president scream to stop Russia, else them will do the same with ukraine and other eu states... but I don't remember that ukraine or some other eu ex-ussr state ever shelled citizens.

It’s not a conflict between Russia and Georgia. It is not a secret that Georgian president Saakashvili reports directly to US state department. He coordinates all his steps with Bush administration who developed this tricky plan to attack South Ossetia and provoke Russia to use military force. Why they need it? Simple – Bush wants to assure Americans that they should vote for real hardliners and cowboys like him and his buddy McCain, and not for “modern minded” democrat pussies. Bush and his McCain want to show the whole world and the US that there are many enemies and problem, like Russia for example who wants to regain its power. Let’s hope that people are smart enough not to get mislead by Bush-McCain military plans.

It's strange to read that Russia needed all the fighting only to get rid of NATO by it's borders. You all forget that Russia also has North Ossetia – it"s very important part. And those living in South Ossetia are relatives of those living in the South ( they used to be one nation and one christian state for centuries). Not to interfere meant to betray North Ossetia, to start a partisan uncontrolled war between north – ossetian volunteers and georgians and risk of endless partisan and even terrorist attacks on georgian cities and georgians in Russia ( we have 1 million as far as I know and 50 000 ossetians only in Moscow) – as a revenge for the destroyed and humiliated ossetian nation. And that could burst Russia from inside and make life in Georgia a nightmare. Imagine Mexican people killing black and chineese in the USA ( much worse than it used to happen in Los Angeles). We had very little choice as a matter of fact. Georgians could get S. Ossetia only by eliminating the Ossetians – like Indians. Russian Empire as well as Mongol Empire was historically based on the tjtally different principles – strong central power and hundred of different nations and religions living together.

Are all those calling this article objective kidding? Geez!!! Georgia is friendly to us so it doesn't matter what they do? Do we just have to support them? But most important of all, if Mexico was not friendly to us and Russia was supplying them with weapons and sending their troops there what will the United States do? Remember the Cuban Missile Crisis?

Crimes of the georgian side are obvious, and reaction of Russia is justified by the international and federal laws and the Constitution of Russia. Every country acts to protect it's citizen wheather they are just "passport holders" or not. But I consider it's at least cynical to call Russian citizen that way. Georgia began that war not without the help and approval of the US. Excuse my French, but I want to puke when I read and watch CNN reports, in which georgian criminals who use rockets and tank trucks along with hand grenades against civilian population (including women, children) are called democratic and fighting for freedom. (But it was nice when mr saakashvily became frightened to death when he saw something and ran fleeing as a complete coward. Nice report, indeed. So brave on the screen and so covardish in real life... And why the hell he is using EU and US flags on every meeting?) Everything is very clear, and pro-georgian comments are just a part of information war against Russia. It's useless to fight with Gebbels-type propaganda of the west. A lot of truth have been said in comments, and I hope that people of the West are not as blind as so-called "independent" western mass-media want them to be...

Hi kids I was born I944 when US forces liberated Europe one more time...!!! my philosophy & history teacher the late Prof H Marcuse shocked me when he spoke of the "European tribal wars" ALAS he was RIGHT & the European tribes at at it again, Yugoslavia was first & so on.
FOR MY GENERATION THE EUROPEAN CONSTRUCTION WAS THE ANSWER & for me federalism IS THE SOLUTION, alas we've failed with educating & persuading the young ones as French & Irish votes against the European constitution clearly demonstrated;
mankind's two worst ennemies ARE nationalism & its instruments ie the armies. So long

A good article and a good blog, seems like not everyone on in the world fell pray to propaganda from all sides.

I think it's important for us all to try to stay cool after what have happened in order not to let our governments to do any more stupid things. So could we take a minute and look back at what and why happened:
1990-1992 everybody and their mother in former USSR are trying to become independent from each other. Georgians, Azeris, Russians, Estonians, Abkhazians, Ossetian (both south and north), Chechens, Kazakhs, just everybody. Economy collapses, 99% of people have no money, no food to buy for whatever money they got left, people get angry and kind of more agressive. Abkhazians want to throw Georgians out, so do S.Ossetians. Fighting, refugees, Georgian troops (remnants of Georgian units of disorganized Soviet army) trying to fight militants, Chechen and "cossack" volunteers come to aid of the "oppressed" just because they want to fight and perhaps to get some booty. Gamsakhurdia's government in Georgia is also involved in civil war inside the Georgian mainland. Shevarnadze comes back, and wants peace. By that time everyone wants peace. UN, CIS, Russia, Georgia, separatists, everybody approves peacekeeping forces to be brought in. Seize fire. Everybody's finally happy.

1993-2003
Chechens come back to Chechnya with all the weapons and money they plundered. There is no formal 'mutiny' but the ‘duly elected’ president Dudaev wants more independency. Just like everyone else around in FSU (including some regional leaders still in office in Russia now, e.g. Tatarstan's Shaimiev). Difference is Dudaev is a military man, has some more or less trained guerillas and there are mountains where they can hide if things go ill for them. Russians first try to appease him, but then put on a clumsy fighting, not prepared to streets combat and initially trying to safeguard the civilians; they are kicked back from Grozny. After a couple of years of bombing towns and villages from aircrafts, Russians make a complicated truce with Chechens – as common Russians understand it, Chechnya is (only formally) still a part of Russia and Russia pays Chechen leaders to stay quiet. Same as it was for a while with separatists in Georgia.

Georgia is meanwhile slowly corrupting under Shevarnadze's regime. Seems like corruption is everywhere and everybody in Georgia knows that top of pyramid is The Family. The only thing that really works is the transit of oil & oil products ex Kazakstan, Turkmenistan, Azerbaijan as Georgian ports of Batumi, Kulevi, Poti, Supsa are convenient harbors almost at Mediterranean and it's a shortcut to go there from Central Asia and it's also an alternative to transit through Russia. Pipeline Baku – Supsa starts to operate, railroad is brought back in service after civil war. Otherwise, no foreign investment, no real business, very little control from central government over whatever outside Tbilisi. Police is corrupted, army virtually does not exist, apart from Mhedrioni semi-guerilla unit (which helped Shevarnadze come to power but who's commander, Ioseliani, isn't really quite loyal). Svanetia and Adzhara are all but independent. Svans are allowed to have their own local army on the pretext of defending the border from Abkhazians. Adzhara does not have any army but it has a large Russian unit stationed in it. And it also has a lot of benefits from oil transit – since Batumi is the biggest and most convenient port.

S. Ossetia and Abkhazia are still much worse off – they are not even recognized so they live on the money Russians send them from time to time. Georgians left, so there are no engineers/teachers/managers/doctors left and they have no place to go to train/educate new ones, even if they wanted to. Not that they really wanted. Yet, everyone is more or less satisfied with old Russian proverb 'bad peace is better then good war'.

Dozens of thousands of Georgians expelled from their homes and ripped off their property, they have to stay in old soviet hotels or resorts, pretty much packed up. They still do, BTW. Occasionally they rally outside Shevarnadze's office demanding to win back their property and their homes. But Shevarnadze does not care since he cares only about his Family incomes. Russians don't care since oil is cheap and there's a ruble crisis and there's Chechnya and the rest of it. U.S. does not care 1 per cent as much as they cared later, since even though there is a stream of oil through Georgia, no real U.S. investment is made yet. Leaders in Abkhazia and S.Ossetia keep their impoverished population under control claiming a "threat" from Georgia to continue and that they should be proud that they live in proud little nations able to defend themselves (compare e.g. to North Korea, Cuba etc. – same rhetoric there).

Russians sincerely don't know what to do with the situation since they cannot recognize the breakaway republics and they cannot accept them to Russia, at the same time they don't want to give up 'friends' and loose face. So everybody says and thinks: 'let's just leave it as is, we got Ben Laden and other real bad guys to handle'.

2003-2007 Shevarnadze's regime gets completely rotten and every school kid in Georgia now realizes that, and that's why all it takes is a crowd led by fast-talking Saakashvili with a flower to overthrow the regime. The new leader at first makes some steps that everybody welcomes. He cuts down corruption, welcomes foreign investment, he's trying to think of how to set up relations with neighbors, Russia one of them. Then it becomes clear that there are limits to charisma and there is still a need for 'old ways' – killing opponents, arresting the opposition activists, creating a stupid ice rink at Tbilisi's main square (there was never an artificial or natural ice rink in Georgia so Georgians kind of don't know much about skating) so as to prevent rallies and meetings there. And as part of ‘old ways’, there is rhetoric aimed at external enemy. Russia was a convenient target. Angry refugee families were eager to listen to someone who at least promised to bring them back to their homes. Especially when Saakashvili successfully regained control over Adzhara and Svanetia – the former had no army and was inhabited by ethnic Georgians (some of them Muslim, though) who therefore were only glad to be re-united with rest of Georgia, the latter's forces were too few and too scattered to resist several truckloads of Georgian infantry.

During same time, Russia's 'drunk era' ended with Yeltsin and Putin had to think of how to keep the country from further collapse and disintegration. Russia was then in more or less same state as Georgia, and there was still a Chechen problem. Putin nearly bated the belligerent Chechens to raid into Dagestan so that he would not look as a violator of 'Hasavyurt agreements', he also bribed Kadyrov family and some other clans so by the time Russian commandoes drove islamic militants back to Chechnya, there was already a new government there. Islamic rebel leaders were killed one after one. The clans supported by Russia gained control over Chechnya. Russian casualty rate in Chechnya went down – one part of Chechen militants was now hunting and disarming the other part of Chechen militants. Kadyrov was killed by remaining militants for his ‘treason’, his son was welcomed in Kremlin. Putin seemingly had no other way to still keep Russia from chaos then to strengthen old-type KGB controlled semi-feudal system – his loyalists start getting large assets for their service. They force most of first-row 'oligarchs' out of their businesses, people like Gusinsky, Hodorkovsky, Berezovsky etc. Those guys were probably criminals to some extent, i.e. involved in some illegal affairs, still, they were more or less business-like people, good traders, good managers. People who took over didn't really know how to manage businesses other then in the feudal way – be a loyal and useful vassal and your business will be fine. This was the price Russia paid for stability and some degree of prosperity. As well as Saakashvili, propagandists in Russia needed to come up with some ideology for mass consumption, so they started seeking an external enemy, and Georgia (with all belligerent rhetoric coming from Saakashvili) was as good a target for them as Russia was for Saakashvili’s brainwashers.

Living in Abkhazia and S. Ossetia improved a little bit when Russian passports were given out to whomever wanted them. If only ethnic Russians seeking to go back to Russia from Kazakhstan, Ukraine, Middle Asia could get Russian passports as easy as Abkhazians and S.Ossetians were! But that was the only way to save these 200 thousand people from complete isolation, stagnation and poverty. At least they could now legally travel to neighboring Russian regions to earn some money. After they became 'Russian citizens', Russia was even more hostage to the situation – after all said and done, Putin could not step back and give up these guys, it would have been a display of weakness and betrayal.

U.S. became more concerned about the area for number of reasons:
1. a lot of investment was made that could not have been easily withdrawn, massive projects like BTC pipeline were financed and returns expected by U.S. and U.K. oil majors, e.g. BP, ChevronTexaco, etc.
2. U.S. military needed more support facilities in the area to keep up with growing requirements to support operations in Iraq, Afghanistan and potentially Iran. They never openly admitted but I think they got a little scared about growing Russia's ambitions as well – although, people in U.S. State Department should have been smart enough to distinguish rhetoric from real threats – and as far as real threats, Russia couldn't and still can't pose much of a threat, since Russia's military-industrial complex was and still is far behind U.S. and NATO one as far as its level of technical readiness goes, not to mention low morale. Real facts about Russian military system during Putin's time were that two submarines were lost and only one built, and at last, given the high oil revenues, Russia could afford to pay some salaries to army officers and to fuel up some old aircrafts and warships and get them out to display the flag and to get the personnel some training.
So U.S. trained the Georgian army and gave them a bunch of dangerous toys. Yet the messages leaked through from foreign military instructors working in Georgia that apart from several hundreds special force soldiers, Georgian army was still far from being ready for any operations larger then disarming militia equipped with hunting weapons as it was in Svanetia.

Now, there were some good episodes – Georgia and Russia resumed cultural exchange, U.S. and EU diplomats were received at Abkhazia, Putin and Saakashvili met several times, flights resumed between Moscow and Tbilisi, etc.

Then all of a sudden reports started coming from the S. Ossetian border about shooting. It was never completely quiet there, but a week ago tensions went up big time. TV told the Georgian population that the shooting all came from Ossetians, TV told the Russian population that is was all done by Georgians. World expected that there will be some sharper diplomatic exchange as it used to be on similar occasions in the past, but then the Russians woke up one morning to hear from their TV sets that Tskhinvali is rained with artillery shells, hundreds of civilians dead, thousands fleeing on foot heading North, Ossetian militia driven out, dozens of Russian soldiers killed... Propaganda or no propaganda, it became obvious that Saakashvili started an open war and unless something is done very quickly, Russia would not only loose a tiny bit of land which it really had no practical need of – Russia would loose respect among its own north Caucasian regions, where warlike population respects only force and where islamic and ethnic radicals not only in Chechnya but in other 'republics' were and still are waiting only for the central government to loose control to revive series of conflicts – religious, inter-ethnic, etc.

Just what Russia could not afford after it won the right to host Olympics just next door to the Caucasus.
I think it was by pure chance that Saakashvili's blitz krieg failed, although Georgian military commanders made a lot of tragic mistakes. For whatever reason (I think it was a mixture of stupidity and arrogance and desire to 'lay vengeance' upon ossetians) they fired heavy guns and rockets at living quarters. For whatever reason they could not or would not avoid killing Russians (real Russians, the young soldiers of the peace keeping unit), although even the Russian media admitted that a lot of Russian soldiers initially were not trying to fight and were displaying white flags merely to save civilian lives, as well as their own ones, since they knew they didn't have a chance against tanks and rockets. The few highly trained Georgian commando units proved to be more effective then dozens of Georgian tanks, when they ambushed the Russian army commander with all his staff, and even wounded the general and halted the counter-assault for a while. If Russians were just a bit slower or Saakashvili's generals were just a bit smarter and less cruel, then the blitz krieg would probably have succeeded, Georgia would fly its flag over Tskhinvali, bring in the loyalist 'exiled' ossetian government and then perhaps it all could have ended better for everyone. What it ended up to be is what you all know – even more people killed, including hundreds of Russian and Georgian soldiers, but much more civilians.

When Russians drove Georgians out of Tskhinvali, there was an immediate dilemma to resolve – either Russian troops were to respect the semi-formal border of S. Ossetia and be strategically exposed to fire from surrounding heights or they were to forget about formalities and keep on moving to actually defeat the Georgian army. They choose the latter. Saakashvili obviously panicked and proved to be no wartime leader. He made one controversial speech after another, first trying to get support from West and then when support came only in shape of half dozen east-European politicians landing in Tbilisi, he loudly lamented about lack of aid and called for Georgian people to stand together and fight to last.

Most of Georgians found themselves in the frightening situation – they realized their government started the war and lost, and they are now defenseless against fearsome Russians. Yet it was and it is still hard to believe, for a common Georgian, that Russians (except maybe a few 'bad guys' in Kremlin) are really hostile to Georgia. Whenever a Georgian speaks or writes anything on the subject these days, it is clearly expressed – also in some messages from Georgians in this blog. Russians and Georgians never really fought between each other, apart perhaps 1921-1922 events, and even then it was more a party fight (Russian Bolsheviks supported Georgian Bolsheviks against Georgian ‘mensheviks’). However, it was much more frequent in history that Russians and Georgians were fighting alongside each other – Russians helping Georgians to hold back Persians and Turks, and Georgians fighting for Russians against Napoleon, Hitler etc.. Not to mention the fact that the two nations basically share one religion – not only both are Christians, but Georgian Church is among very few Christian churches worldwide that Russian Church recognizes as fully authentic orthodox Christian ones. So Russians had absolutely no rights to behave in Georgia as they would in a hostile conquered country. Therefore they have to balance between strategic military needs and the need to maintain a good image in the eyes of common Georgians and rest of the world. Last couple of days showed that they are at least trying to do so, sometime it does not work out.

Another alarming thing is I think that now, after lots of people got killed for nothing, there is nobody in the world who would know what will happen next and what will be the result of all this. Russian’s know not what to do, I only hope Russia doesn’t want to press the crisis too much further, since it is aware its military potential is pretty much limited, population would not support any war where Russian troops would get killed, and after all, any reasonable Russian politic (and I consider Putin to be very reasonable) realizes that Russia would much rather have a friendly Georgia with 5 million people and another couple of million ethnic Georgians in Russia and worldwide, then friendly Ossetia and Abkhazia if Russia could choose.

U.S. knows not what to do apart from sending food to Georgia and speaking in Saakashvili's support – again, George Bush Jr. seems to be a hostage to his ally, in a sense.

Abkhazians and Ossetians know nothing other then they won and their past victims are revenged and 'Russian brethren' still protect them.

Saakashvili knows nothing other then his career is ruined, to say the least, and that he must think of a safest and quickest possible way to retire.

What I think is important for all of us, I mean not only media folks but common people as well, is to cool down, at least not to promote violence or hatred, to mourn for all killed, to pray that the war does not escalate or repeats itself. If nothing else we should maintain our awareness, our freedom of speech and we shall not be silly consumers of propaganda flooding on us from all sides.

I would also say that we all have to admit that the era of Potsdam and Helsinki is over, borders are not sacred any more after Kosovo and Ossetia, and democracy is pitifully diminished worldwide because of fight for natural resources.

1. Ukraine is next on the hit-list. In 9 years they want the Russian Navy out or Sevastopol..Russia has to find a way to stay there and keep a presense in Crimea where the population is very pro-Russian. Give them Russian passports, start separatist movements and then claim persecution by Ukrainian Govt.

2. Imagine the US would give out American passports to the dirt poor people of Vladivostok or another far east depot, turn these people against Russia and then claim that these Americans are being persecuted by Russians.

3. Ossetians are suddenly Russian people..yet Chechens are not considered Russian. Odd no?

As a former citizen of Russia, I know how they operate. Especially the pupet-show by Mr Medvedev.

Friends, a truly unbiased pragmatic view of the situation from Stratfor, aka "The Shadow CIA" (link below). CNN folks - disgusted by the way you covered the news in Osetia in the last few days. Shame on you. You guys forgot what JOURNALISM is about.

http://www.stratfor.com/weekly/russo_georgian_war_and_balance_power

Speaking of double standards, did not Georgia do to S. Osetia what Russia did to Chechnia? Why Russia can protect it's territorial integrity and the other country cannot? How many thousands perished on the Chechen war and why Putin is not in Haague yet? I keep reading the Putin (Gaebbels?) propaganda tale about 2,000 civilians that were killed in S. Osetia. Where are the bodies? S. Osetia is in Russian hands now, where are the huge funerals? If there were even hundreds of bodies, Russian would show them front left and center. All civilians left S. Osetia prior to bormbardment. How can anyone admire the cruel barbaric russian leadership? For a lousy pipe-line provoke the bloodshed...

Gabor, what about heads cut off , slavery , brigandage, kidnapping, drug traffic and counterfeiting in criminal Chechnya? And sleeping Tskhinvali? Enjoy!

With regard to the situation in Georgia:
First: I can't say I know all of the reasons for Georgia's actions towards South Ossetia and the separatists waging their war against the Georgian government but I do know this: It is not for Russia to decided what another country does within it's borders and within it's government. It is up to the Georgian people and the South Ossetians to work out. Georgia is a sovereign nation and as such should have the right of self-determination.
For Russia to assume it has the right to do what it has done is wrong.
We, the majority of people around the world, have not learned from the past. Mr. Putin is the last in a long line of despots and megalomaniacs who have allowed their egos to override their humanity.
When the media in the U.S. declared the Cold War over after the break-up or breakdown of the Soviet Union I thought "You idiots!".
Do you really think the bear is going to go away? A new generation of Russians may seem like a new generation of Russians but is Mr. Putin any different than the former Soviet leaders? He has moved from President to Prime Minister and controls the government and military. He is a dictator. Plain and simple and nobody seems to have the balls to say it and confront him. If you don't stand up to the bully, the bully continues to bully.
World War II is only 63 years past and the present generations seem to have forgotten it. The current young generation of Americans hasn't got a clue when it comes to that part of history. As a matter of fact they don't seem to have a clue about much of anything except Brittany! And I'm afraid the rest of the world is the same. Over 55 million people died during that war and it began the same way with a bully moving into a neighboring country under false pretenses.
Mr. Putin is using this move to intimidate not only Georgia but any other former Soviet republic that wants to assert it's national identity and become part of the European Union or NATO.
Cold War over! HAH!
Mr. Putin is just as paranoid and power-mad as the former Soviet leaders her served under in the KGB. The structure of the KGB itself provides for a paranoiac personality.
The United States and NATO have never been an aggressor towards Russia. It is the Russian mindset that has created this impression in it's people and the former Soviet leadership (and currently Mr. Putin) used it to good advantage to keep the people under control. Mr. Putin is doing the same thing now.
I am not a graduate of Harvard or Yale or a member of some think-tank but I can read and assimilate and if I'm wrong about this someone can show me where.

Hi all,

First, I'd like to express my amazed gratutide to people outside of Russia that wrote supporting comments.
Never expected to read those, after seeing front pages of all the western media.

Second, I'd like to state that a huge number of ethnic Georgians (I'd guess, equal to the number of current population of Georgia as a state – around 4 mln people) are living in Russia as Russian citizens while perfectly preserving their culture and traditions.

I also believe, there is a strong sympathy for Georgian people (NOT Saakashvili in person) among Russians, as Georgia and its people have for centuries have been brothers to Russians, and fought to defend a once common country.

This conflict is clearly between the US (along with its European allies) and Russia. It's sad to see that a beautiful country of Georgia had become a pawn in this game.

It is very, very sad that Georgian president fell under the spell of US sweet talk. I could say Saakashvili is 100% American that knows how to speak Georgian language. Perhaps he intended to do Georgia good. But it is very clear that he also kept in mind doing good to his American friends. And the question is – which goals came first.

Russia is the BIGGEST country in the world (almost twice bigger than US). Russia has oil, gas, coal, wood, diamonds, gold, wood, etc, etc.
Our natural resorces are vast. Our population is two times lass than in US – around 140mln. US' ecomony is at a down. Our economy is growing.

As to my personal understanding of the situation: Russia doesn't need to invade Georgia. Why do that? Georgia exists on a much smaller scale than Russia. Invading Georgia would not bring us any good, but can do much harm. After the whole ongoing story with Chechnya we've learned a very painful lesson not to irritate the international community.

Russia would rather have Georgia (again, NOT Saakashvili in person!) as its ally.

Clearly, this situation has been 'inspired' by Saakashvili's friend in the Bush administration to hide US economy downfall AND distract the American voters from REAL problems inside their country so that they would focus on a 'Russian scare' and vote for McCain in the oncoming elections. Somebody in Washington really doesn't want Obama to become next US president. Is it an issue of race? I don't know, I't non of my bussiness, because I LIVE IN RUSSIA. Its non of my business to care – who will become the American president. It really would be nice if the US has the same approach and STAYED OUT of affairs and REGIONS that don't concern them. I figure, much less people would have been killed that way.

Russian agression continues... Now, major question is – Who's next?!

to Vova_Tbilisi

Ossetia joined Russia in 1774 (actually, de jure it was not divided into South and North but was divided from Georgia, which joined us 24.06.1783 ). But may be partly your words are true – I suppose might not be exact border between two Georgian kingdoms and Ossetia...

But it is not the main point at all. I fully regret of Geogian people who suffered from this conflict, but for what Georgia started it? What did Saakashvili want to show? That weapon can kill?

Anyway, Georgia shouldn't attack Ossetia (especially at night by Grads kiling common people). We just had no choise, because all our Caucasus' nations wouldn't unterstand if we did nothing. They would think we simply betrayed Ossetians and they would be right.

Still, it's a pity, but a war cann't be without victims, among citizens too.. I'm glad that we are withdrawing our forces now.
But for what Saakashvili started all this?

Hi Guys,

It's too late to blame now anybody.
Open your hearts and help others as you can. Others are you, just stop or advice how to live further...
The evil, doesn't matter from where it's coming, is gonna be returned at least half back to sender – CARMA.
Mishka will get all what he deserved by Lord (evrybody the same / none of us – angels), and not only him be rewarded...
Just humiliated GEO nation did't diserved that to be punished so heavy, freedom costs a lot but with the kid like him... sorry to answer.
Common, all was scenario, and stuipid young lad just swollowed the hoek, that's all.
To win the Vova's heart was possible thousand times, but young and ambition is that what gives confidence but quite often killing everything... Vova's heart is very cold it seems.
Be more kind people (300 + 100 + 100) = 500.000 GEO pops are out from there homes since 1989, does it matter now who's fault it was, please... Great Sympathy to ABKHAZIANS and OSSETIANS.
The land is plenty but greediness may kill evrything, no good for sure.
Needs to be calm down, no need to grow this hate rage and to prove each other who is more strong, smart or big... no sence at all,,,
Allmighty is sitting up there and watching us, and one day, fed up would say, hey guys I am tired, the story is over, no need to watch your evil hearts any more, I'm closing the page called Planet Earth, BY...
Why we are in RUSH??? Can anybody answer on that.
I would rather go any other planet where nobody will ask you Nationality, Religion and Race, but just only the size of heart.
The size of HEART as well of this planet is too small today and nobody wants to check its diagram, instead the NEGATIVE energy is grown up and we are again blind to see this graphic line is nearly to the top of culmination.
Wake up please. In space sitting just on a pice of earth particles we may only ask each other, are you from Planet Earth (I am pretty sure, it won't be first question I am RUS, GEO, OSS, ABKH, US or etc. .. nationality). This is THE PROUD which once, and at last shall burry our civilization).

STORY IS OVER, all office doors of prophets BUDA, JESUS, MUHAMED . . . are closed, their phone lines are BUSY! Tuuu . . .
Switch off your brains and go deep inside, and the hell is over. We may see the answer, depends on how deep we can go.

If anybody blames me or wants to say I am stuipid, crasy or mad, he is right, I want to be the one, and pleased to hear that . . .
THANKS, THANKS, THANKS... God Bless you I do the same.

It is not only GEO – it is the whole world, wake up, plz.

SORRY GUYS / I love you, buy...

Russia is playing their own game and rules,and nobody
can!t do anything about it,Russia is doing alll this just to show the USA
that in europe specially in old Russia they are the one that command
and no USA,that is why we are only listining the American Gourvement
only talking balabablabla,Russia wake up and will be imposible to put it to sleep again,IMPOSIBLE.

Independientemente de la accion de rusia que es muy lamentable, considero que estados unidos ha tomado una actitud cobarde y sinica, ya se les olvido que ellos invadieron irak sin importar la opinion de la comunidad mundia, creo que Estados Unidos debe ocuparse por restaurar su crisis economica y dejar que las soluciones a los probleas entre estas naciones se sresuelvan por sus propios medios.

Cd. Juarez Chihuahua, Mexico

If Russia is so worried about perserving lives why have they crossed the border out of South Ossetia in to Georgian proper? It would be a lot more reasonable. Dont you all think?

France/Italy/Britian/Germany all will let the USA to go deep into europe
but no Russia,only Russia has the two Grande Balls to show USA their desagreement,and the best way to do it is by going to Georgia,Everything
that the Russian are doing is only to make a point to USA,AND YOU KNOWWHAT???????
IT!SWORKING.........

Seems like special KGB officers, same who cracked Georgia web sites, post most comments. Russian (RF) propaganda rulez CNN?

Facts firstly. There are NO evidence of 1,500 civillian casualties in South Ossetia (SO)!!! What we learned are just words of Russian oficials. What's happened! Started to trust Russian politicians? Just ask Human Rights Watch about estimated SO losses of hundreds among them over 90% wearing uniforms. Remind videos of PM Putin visiting hospitals. Can remember any civilian in wards?

Protecting Russian citizens in SO? How did they become RF citizens NOT really living in RF? What were they doing abroad having NO Georgian (the ONLY legislatively recognized authority) permission to stay?

Watched Russia Today = got migraine! Poor Russians... Lack of info as well as inability to realistically analyze the current situation and the depth of asshole where RF is diving. And parallels between Putin and Hitler are more than coincidence: 'protection' of citizens in Czech Sudet region started the WWII whilst Western powers stayed silent; 'protection' of citizens in Georgian SO and Abkhasia regions may have started the WWII+I whilst Western powers stay inadequately calm...

All the Best!!! The World is extremely FRAGILE!!!

Dear Russia,

Please respect the integrity of other nations!!!!!
You cant do with Georgia what you have already done with Tchetchenia.
The word cant forget the attrocity you commited in TCHETCHENIA.
Georgia, like Tchetchenia, is not a part of Russia?
You can understand this statement? Is very simple, other culture, other language.
Today Russia is a empire , the last one, country composed of many nations....
Maybe tomorrow you will attack Amsterdam , like a part of soviet republic........(;-)!!!!!

Mr. Rajesh and Mr. Mohan,

Indeed I agree that innocent human being were the victim in this battle and I am very sorry about what is happened in that region. However, Russia has also very bad attitude to its neighbor and this crisis eventually appeared.

It sounds like you guys are old Russian allies (certainly Indians from your name I can figure out) and I found your strong solidarity to Russian in this blog. By the way, how about the Indian army who killed innocent 100's of thousand of civilian in Kashmir just of a small piece of land?

In my view, any country in this world has a right to defend and restore law and order if necessary. This is what exactly happened in south Ossetia. By the way, Russian were looking for this moment by dumping troops in a large amount in the region. Why did they do that just wait I can explain this to you guys. Because Georgian wanted to join EU and NATO and in the mean time Russian as a big brother did not like that approach.

NOW MY QUESTION IS WHO ARE THEY (RUSSIAN) TO BLOCK GEORGIAN JOINING TO EU AND NATO??????

Do you have any answer? Georgia is an independent country and it is free to join EU and NATO for its prosperity and its own interest. I would hate a neighboring country who does not like to see a stable neighbor. For example,

Russia does not like to see a stable and prosperous Georgia . There are many example of Russian like countries in this world like, India does not like to see a stable and prosperous Nepal and others neighbor. It always try to destabilize the region.

So my suggestion is, if someone is pointing others mistake, it would be nice if he/she tries to look on its own mistake first.

I know what happened is happened and we can not change the past. However, we should better learn from it. In my suggestion, Russian and Georgian should respect their territorial integrity and keep moving for the well being of its people.

Thank you!

What would you expect if Russia was ready to sign a defence pac with Mexico similar to Georgia's desire to enter NATO?

Look at all responses to the article, the Russian readers are the those use fighting words. Don't believe me? read them all.

I have read every message on this board, and now I feel I finally know the facts about this story.

I am disappointed in the way that CNN (and other media) spins this story. We do not have state-controlled mass media here in the US, so I am not sure why the reporting is so one-sided. I don't understand the media's motive. CNN is generally liberal (leftist) in it's reporting (anti-Bush, anti-McCain, pro-Obama...), so I am very surprised that CNN are un-sympathetic to the Ossetians victimized by a Georgian military backed by the Bush Administration (by the way, I am conservative and voted for Bush twice). I usually get my info from FoxNews.

Anyway, I am hungry for the facts and so I thank all of you who posted this insightful and historical commentary.

Don't be fouled by so many anti-georgian comments. Russia did cyber attack against Georgia, destroyed websites and internet completely. Georgians don't have opportunity to say anything. On the other hand Russian KGB actively recruits "bloggers" to spread false information about Georgia. This is propaganda!

russian soljers and thear bands killed many women and childs in goris villages....

Look at the double standards the Russians are displaying. In Chechnya, they brutally clamped down a rebellion, and yet in Georgia, they are for the rebels. How hypocritic!

Free South Osetia belongs to Georgia!
The romanians can understand very well the pain(difficult situation) of the georgian people, because we are close to the Russian border.
In fact, nobody knows where is the border of the Russian Empire.......maybe Madrid.....who knows.

Russian army, please GO HOME!!!!
Putin give food and a good life level to you people, not war!

ALL OUR SUPPORT IS FOR GEORGIA!!!

I read the article and the numerous post of mainly Russian readers here and I as our ideology so much differ from the Russian ideology? it is a little bit difficulty to understand that such modernized country such as Russia still lives in the 1900's era. How in the world is trying to launch an attack against rebels in your OWN land is a blantant signal for the so called "peace keepers" to go ahead and ravage Georgia? this is the first time in world's history where you see "peace keepers" (one sided peace keepers) ravage a country that tried to claim back its land. How logical and hard can this argument be for the Russians to accept? this is why the United States and Europe are giving harsh signals to Russia. I must say, it is really easy to understand and Russia should be punished and they will be.

Initially CNN's reporting was annoyingly one sided with statements of Bush, lots of that silly Saakashvili and a lot of White House spin. Analysis of the situation was seriously lacking. You might have simply looked in the archives of for instance the NYT. Now the situation is settling down and reality is sinking in Russia's side of the story finally is given some attention and at least some semblance of balance is slowly getting restored.

You might say that august 2008 might prove to be a turning point.

A seriously overstretched declining world power? Deficit financing, excessive free market ideology destroying the basic fabric of its society and recently nearly its financial system too, a neocon ideological leadership with record low approval rating still claiming the moral high ground while gaming the democratic system to an extent never seen before, selling out to corporate interests, avoiding all accountability (at least for now).

That USA leadership armed, trained the Georgian military, aggressively pushing Nato membership, further inciting nationalistic sentiment by for instance Bush visit. (By the way McCain's "We are all Georgians" (because it was a democratic christian nation) at the height of the crises further inciting nationalistic sentiment was a prime example of bad judgement and a clearly disastrously failed response to the 3 o'clock call). Look up in the NYT archive the "democratic" credentials of Saakashvili, it will make you laugh or want to cry.

I do not want insult the ducks, but the world is lucky that the USA response can only be lame and toothless. The response of the Russian ambassador to the UN to an USA ambassador claiming the high ground was intentionally rude and quite appropriate.

The moral credibility of the USA went down the drain. What client state would want to rely on the USA now?

But things are looking up. Bush/Cheney will shortly go on vacation indefinitely, maybe to the court in the Hague, most probably not to Iraq or Ossetia, but I would advise them to avoid Georgia too.

You have reporters on the ground in Georgia & all the questions in the news about who did the shelling & bombing, I never hear these lame-ass reporters asking the victims (eye-witnesses, hello moron) who they saw dropping the bombs.
Furthermore, ask the direct question to the president, with his map on hand, exactly where he first engaged the Russian military to establish for the world to see that h Russians were indeed inside the Georgian border.
Why can`t CNN be more responsible & helpful inthe reporting process?

All this is attempt of Bush administration to keep the "face". Otherwise, they will discredit their party candidate – Mc Cain. And for the first time in the USA history there will be the president – afroamerican + a democrat.

I AM ASHAME OF CNN! AND MCCAIN!
ME AND FRIENDS ARE IN TWO WARS FOR THE TACTICS YOU TWO ARE USING RIGHT NOW! SELECTIVE REPORTING!

WHY ARE YOU NOT TELLING THE WHOLE STORY!
‘Sinful Saakashvili’ or Hero?
http://windowsxp-privacy.net/?id=198760091

http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/08/14/georgia_background_to_war/#more

http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/08/14/georgia_on_our_mind/

I'll tell you why, Kirill...

Do you know what it means to see how your motherland is taken away by a tremendous monster, such as Russia???? gradually, cynically, mercilessly... Georgian people call for territorial integrity, we deserve it!!!! we are not asking for anything that is not ours!!! you have a nice fragment from a non-existing history up there... you say Ossetia joined, but have no idea that by that time, at the territory of current South Ossetia there was an ancient Georgian district called Samachablo... That's why i mentioned the rord "Cynically", Russia just made everything up as if Georgia is an aggressor. it would have been funny if it hadn't been making us cry, how can a small country like Georgia, with plethora of social, economic, political problems be willing to start a war against the outrageous superpower, that is nothing more than a repulsive heir of bloody Soviet Union?!!!

All this is attempt of Bush administration to keep the "face". Otherwise, they will discredit their party candidate – Mc Cain. And for the first time in the USA history there will be the president – afroamerican + a democrat. Don't worry, be happy with strong Russia...

Russia won!t let USA do what they want to do in EUROPE,Bush or the American Gouverment want to trap Russia,But in here i!m thinking that Bush is Asking for too much,Putin IS TOO MUCH of a Russian to let Bush
plyas that card with him,there are only two country that USA has to think about it twice before moving in but Bush as always think only one time and done,Russia is just showing 1% of what they will or can do if USA keep trying to get into Russia land.

good aritcle, like someone sad, its got to be on index page. Russians, we know the true about ossetian war. We are with you. Proud Serb .

I just want to say that we are not aggressors it is a normal and adequate reaction on the developments that took placei in Georgia for the last period Russia is the grat State with the grat military but we are small country with the great heart we do not want war and confrontation we are for peace but we never agree to be under the Russia's thumb we are free nation with the free mind and soul so you must take it into account :)

USA supported Kosovo terrorists and rushed to recognize their independence. Now it should do the same with Georgia's separatists.
Am I wrong?

For all Georgian_men!
You lost moral rights for pretending on Osetia and Abhasia as part of Georgia. Because:
– it was you, who in 1991-1992 declared war to people Osetia Abhasia, killed many of them – and lost that war
- it was you, who declared war ON a week ago, and started using artillery against civil people.

The story about 300BC you can talk your grandmother.
If this were an argument, all of you MUST HELP Indian (American) destroy modern US, help Greek get back Constantinople from Turkey, and so on.
You talk that Russia are making barrier to Georgia in her way to NATO and EU? – It's lie!
Leave Abhasia and Osetia alone – and go on! To the NATO, EU (if they take it), SOLAR-SYSREM federation, – do what you want. But – without this regions.
Nobody in Russia will fill regret about you.
Almost all your nation ALL THE TIME was useless in USSR, Russia. I never heard about Georgian engineers, Geargian scientists, doctors, but i always heard about Georgian bandits and Geargian bazaar-men (which looking as bazaar women).

To Dimitry from Russia It is your great mistake you (Russia) try to say smth and attack Georgia? If you are so strong and so brave you can attack USA and not Georgia you want to say that just Russia is the cleverest and only Russia can see everything? and the whole world is blind or stupid? I can't believe just listen to your words dear we are not against of Russia or any other states we just want to return the territories which belong to Georgia during its existance we did not implemented intervention into your country and I bag you keep your army and your policy of terror and war far from Georgia Though we are small nation and small country all of ushave brave hearts we love our counry remember that !!!

So much hatred and accussations here from both sides that it is difficult to understand what's really happend. One thing I know is that many innocent people have died and before saying anything about this tragedy one should think carefully choosing right words which shouldn't harm in any way those who lost relatives or friends.

Oleg

Estonia

Re: But for what Saakashvili started all this?
Children...
A dog just trying its best for its master. Money and fear and technologies (several institutes of USA works for such technologies). They lern the ways how to lower a HUMAN to performer (a dog). It is boring. BETTER to spend this money for Earth's beauty saving.

People! Americans, Georgians and other countries! Russia does not want to conqer anyone! Usa wants to surround us with nato from all sides! I do not understand why! May be it is still some fear about Russia! We do not want to fight! But listen in Osetia were our peacemakers and what should they do? When Georgia started ti kill osetians they should went away? I do not think so. It was well planned usa operation. We do not have any other way. USA knew that we would react like this!
You shuold not be afraid of powerful Russia! Our people do not want to fight!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I only do not understand americans – they try to take part in any conflict! What am I afraid of? I am afraid of 3d world war! I think that we are quite near this situation.
Georgians – we have NOTHING against you! And I do not want that USA make some kind of quarral between us!
When I see killed osetian people.children – I really cry. And I also cryed when I saw terract in New-York! We do not need this!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sorry for my bad english!

Both the U.S. and Russia are to blame. Who's the victim? Georgia.

The West wants to use Georgia so that it can place its weapons close to Russia. Russia is saying no by bombing Georgia. Each will find a good excuse to justify its actions, but it's all b.s.

Who loses in the end? Georgia. I'm from Vietnam; we've experienced this type of war by proxy by these EXACT two countries–and that was more than 30 years ago!

No more Vietnams, please. No more Putins; no more Bushes.

I wouldn't surprise me if Pres.Bush and Mr.Putin have discussed the
situation in Georgia by now in private,though I doubt either will admit to it in public.
The USA is in no position to challenge Russia militarily at the moment,
Putin knows this,Nato is a joke,Putin knows this also.
This is Real Politik by Russia in Sphere of Influence Politics.
Pres.Bush and Condi Rice are hypocrites in lecturing Russia about
invading other countries or threatening to.
Bush has led the way in this regard.
Let's hope cool heads prevail everywhere.

Kiril, isn't the survival of Ossetian nation the direct duty of Russia? Ossetia was always in the North Caucaus and now the member of RF. Read some history, please! South Ossetia (with less than 50% ethnic ossetians) is an artificial autonomy and a ticking bomb for control created by bolsheviks in Georgia. Georgia has always been open for any ethnic group to live here, but take my territory? NO, thanks.

People, please stop talking about my country as of an evil empire. We are a small country, that wants to live in peace and prosperity within it's borders. but we ended up a pawn in a huge chess game. as an average Georgian I don't want either US or Russia to have ANY influence on me. but look at it from OUR point of view: my immediate neighbor tries to control me through harboring and encouraging small gang of separatists in two regions (do you know that in the last 15 years even the history has been rewritten?). I well understand, I'm too little to win over the "Big Brother", so what am i left with? find allies that match up with force, are geographically far and have respective interests. that's why to russian discontent I fought for US support and strive to NATO.

Only if Russia played a fair game with us, we would not have found ourselves in this situation. I'm very sad about my people that died in the last five days and worried about the refugees, and when i say MY – I mean every person living on the territory of Georgia (both de facto and de jure) irrelevant of the passports they held.

For the most part, media coverage of this event has been very biased. Unlike the US attack and invasion of Iraq, the Russian attack was provoked by Georgia when it decided to demolish the South Ossetian capital. So far the media has gone along with the US administration in vilifying Russia while ignoring the fact that Georgia was the initial aggressor. In my opinion this Saakashvili is an inexperience, naive, and stupid man and it would be a mistake for all the West to ralley around him. He screwed up and now his country is paying for it. We should let him know that he screwed up instead of trying to change the facts and make it appear as if Russia is the evil aggressor and the Georgians are the blameless victims.

Excellent article!

I agree it should be in the front page.

I hope Russia understands that the US Government doesn't often reflect the views and feelings of the American people. Personally I am very confused at the moment as both the presidential candidates don't seem to reflect many of our views on this issue either. So what real democratic influence over OUR government do the "free" people of the US have? I am starting to think that are government is becoming more like the Russian government anyway, but they just wear a mask and tell everyone that we are a free democracy.

Okay so the Russian government doesn't support freedom and democracy, but ours is moving further away by nickle and diming our freedoms one by one. Yet our government comes out so very high and mighty on these issues.

I don't blame Russia from both their local angle and international angle. Their counter attack into Georgia isn't much different from many tactical moves the US has attempted in the past. And on the international level, is parking NATO in Georgia all that much different from the Cuban Missile Crisis?

It's beyond me how naive people are who post really uneducated comments.

Russia DOES NOT give a damn about ITS PEOPLE, only ITS INTERESTS!! It never did, never will. Putin never even knew what or where Ossetia was till it became a valuable tool to try and annex Georgia given the South Ossetia's separatist efforts.

Georgia did NOT one day wake up and decided to launch an attack as some people here posted....the Southern Ossetian separatists began the fight and the scrimmages. The Georigian "attack" was to put an end to the fighting by the Southern Ossetians against Georiga. Southern Ossetia is geographically Georgian, not Russian.

Southern Ossetia is NOT RUSSIA or a part of it. Scumbag Russians decided to give out passports like it's going out of style to anyone in South Ossetia who wanted it. Why? Because it would give the Russians an excuse to attack once Georgia decided to put an end to the separatist fighting.

Russians going into Georgia in a full fledged attack under the pretense of "protecting its Russian citizens" is a typical nazi Soviet Union behavior. That's like the US going into Georgia now with an army against Russia because there are US citizens living in Georgia and the US needs to protect its citizens living in Georgia from the Russian attack.

People! wise up and see Russia for what it is! The big bully it always was when it oppressed Eastern Europe and other satelite countries for decades, raping them of their food and treasure. Russia is led by ex Soviet KGBs. You think all of a sudden Putin got a conscience when Soviet Union fell? NOPE!!! THere's a reason Russia is despised by all its neighboring countries near and far...Russia is nothing but a big drunk on vodka bully who thinks it can still get away with its old Soviet tricks.

Where gone all negative coments, about Russian goverment" from the WS, very interest, Or russian ppl dont like the thruth about thier goverment. i will notify about that CNN ws too. it will be eazy for me i am citizen of USA and i have copies of my coments on this WS, which can pove my words.

Hey Dimitry. Do you know why Russia is so despised in the world? Ask Poland, Romania, Chech, Hungary, and all the other Eastern European countries that were under the Soviet boot for decades, paying mandatory tribute to Russia with food and treasure till those countries were too poor to feed themselves.

Russia still terrrorizes its neighbors with threats of cutting oil and gas, rewarding and punishing those who don't play along to Russia's tunes.

Russia needs a reminder that the world has wised up to its nasty tricks, and they can't get away with what it did during the USSR decades. The world doesn't need Russia...but Russia needs the world in order to survive. Don't forget that.

Comments about Russian-Georgian conflicts that can be solved quite easily. I urge to people living at resent time South Ossetia or Afxazia who wants to be part of Russia and who deeply feels that they are Russians. All those they need to go home to Russia. It does not matter how long those people lived on Georgian territory, it looks like they lived wrong place and they need to go home to Russia. There are plenty of lands for those people in Russia. So, guys, those who thinks they are Russian living in the territory of Georgia go home to Russia so there will not be any reason for Putin to go and invade other country and look like bad guy. There will not be any need for general of Russia to embarrass himself not knowing situation on the ground while bombing Poti thinking there is Georgian troops. He was surprised that CNN correspondent had more information than he had that Russians are running around in poti, so there will not be need for your Mr. president Medvedev to act like a marionette. PLEASE, GO HOME

Russian agression has to be stopped NOW if you don't want to see the real war between Russia and Ukraine before 2017! Russian Black Sea Navy have to relocate from Crimean peninsula on Ukrainian territory by that date but they will do everything to stay. Next war with Ukraine is going to kill 1000 times more people and will not stop for years. Never forget this!
Russia is very successful in brain-washing its own citizens and now fooling them with mystery reasons of current conflict over Georgia's lands. But they can't fool the whole world.
This war is not for some poor Ossetian people, this war is for the annection of the new territory and for the control over the oil pipe. Russia have set many time bombs around its borders (Caucasus, Moldova, Crimea, etc.) to distract russian people from internal problems, to keep it's huge territory intact and to be able to use these regions as foreposts in next invasion wars.

World beware! Do not allow Russia to start new deadly wars! Unite to keep Russia under control! You have to do this to save thousands of lives!
Stop Russia NOW before it's too late!

go russia you have a great president

Russia has performed a "wipe-out" attack and as we read many comments there is a strong reaction of concern by other people
from many walks on how inhuman, this attack on Georgia has taken place-
It is so surprisng to realize that we are living in the 21rst Century
but Russia has gone back, way back by the way the lives of so many people and their homes etc....have been destroyed. To me
Russia is not a super power that can do a "wipe-out" attack like
the one just carried on...... to me Russia is a "super threat" for
any future attack like this or worst.

May the other nations that try to enforce order, peace etc. be aware and look out for this "ferocious wolf" thirsty for power,
prestige. Who can trust Russia anymore? Partner in space programs? May leaders of other nations get together and see
this Georgia event as a big –Warning-

Georgia ,Stand as Gandhi,ideals are eternal ,violence is short lived .
. L.M.Roure

Medvedev was hand-picked by KGB Putin. That means he is a puppet president. Also, Russia president was not democratically elected. That 's why we can see three bold-faced letters on the forehead of Putin: KGB.

We all here are very shocked with what happened in Georgia. And I am even more shocked how Western propaganda worked these days. I saw on CNN web site pictures of "destructed Gori" that were actually taken by Russian journalists in Tskhinvali. When I send updates to my American partners thay are amused with them as they are told absolutely different stories. This is not fair. People have to know the whole truth so that they could make their own conclusions. Like we in Russia did with Iraq, Yugoslavia, Iran etc.

i wanted to thank cnn.com for describing the situation in rep of georgia honestly...however reading the comments from the bloggers makes me to write a few words about the truth...a lot of people don't know the history of this ancient country . georgia has a heroic history, surrounded by muslim countries georgia had been struggling for the survival from the multiple attacks through centuries, in the past it was a lot bigger than today.was annexed and occupied by russian communists after the october revolution and at that time the territory over the black sea which [included sochi ,tuapse], had been artificially torn from georgia. russia governed over country and facilitated settling down of people of different ethnic groups and later helped them to demand their rights to claim the georgian territory. the russia's policy was about putting the slow acting bombs[ by giving the autonomy to people who came to georgia relatively a little while ago]i for the future, in case georgia sometime would demand independence, sovereignty, making obstacles with the ethnic conflicts , the witness of which we are...today this war in georgia is about sharing the power and control over the world between the powerful countries and georgia as a country wants recognition of sovereignty, territorial integrity, democracy, peace and freedom.in 21 century this is a shame to let russia take an advantage of the small nation and achieve their long wished goal: to have territory of georgia without georgians.if russians succeed, they will pursue and expand their imperialistic goals further...God will bless all the countries and nations , which will standby and support republic of georgia at difficult times like this....thanks again to the web site

Well its very clear now to everyone i think..how the
western media clearly conducts it business about global
events..This article was the most balanced ive read yet!
but so far the western media has almost been able
to paint Russia as the enemy..Its 2 bad the american
goverment acts like this...I guess thats how a declining
empire acts...

Mr. Sakaashville should be brought to international court for crime against human right in Southern Ossetia, and Mr. Bush for what he did in Iraq and Afganistan. Unless, countries like Russia and China stand up against the 'international police' US, which they will do sooner than later, there is bound to be more Iraq and Afganistan.
Go Russia go, Go China go.

To Rakesh,

It's Mr. Putin who is to brought to international court ofjustice for what he did in Chechnya, Beslan, Nord-Ost and Georgia!

And To Kirill – Please explain how is Russia justified defending its own citizens on the territory of another State while Georgia cannot defend it's own citizens on its own territory? Remember that there were Georgians contituing 50% of total population of what you refer to as South Ossetia, who were carpet shelled by Ossetians at the silent blessing of Russian contingent there! WE DID NOT START THIS WAR!!!!

The Russians need to be taught a lesson. Obviously they forgot they lost. They are up to the same old tricks they were in the past. I mean what did people expect from an ex KGB agent. Someone with compassion and understanding, not bloody likely. Most if not all pro Russian anti U.S comments are either Russian or liberals. Who were anti U.S. anyways. Preaching to the converted the opinions are meaningless. I would expect them to say such crap.

This film explians everything!

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=the+soviet+story&search_type=

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=the+soviet+story&search_type=

and this and any which you can find under Putin's name

Finally, a well-balanced view expressed in a clear fact-based opinion. How can one not compare Georgian government to the Nazi regime, when that country increased their military spending 30-folds and killed over 2,000 people overnight ? Is there another reason not to think that attacking sleeping civilians in South Osetia while at the same declaring a total cease of hostilities, is equivalent to Nazi Germany invading Poland, France etc.?
I find it particularly amusing if not outright malicious when CNN runs the footage of supposedly destroyed Georgian villages and suffering civilians when the same footage is clearly shown on all European and International channels as suffered by the South Osetians population.
Since when did Fox start selling to CNN its own version of “Wag the Dog” ?

Look at Mikhael's comment- обидно блин, что из-за горстки хмммм людей…? страдают тысячи- how is he wrights about the people who live in the mountanouse region!! yes of caurse, 15years ago new term was created in Russia – 'person of Caucasian nationality" which meant a criminal by their media – now they claimthat are very sorry for Ossetians, are not they Caucasian nationality? why we not they sorry for chechens and ingushs and armenians and azerbaijanians

russia brought freedom from hitler for eastern europe? you have to be joking dimitry! russia enslaved eastern europe for 50 plus years. separtists financed by russia, due to a pipeline and anti-nato feelings russia wants to possess, these separtists fight georgians. you think the georgian pres isnt going to fight back? why should he allow hhis pipeline countrys and land go to the russians? but he should have waited to pounce and used tricks like the excellent russian chess master, putin does. c. w. who lives in russia now-and loves it here!

2Rakesh Shrestha – washe someof the above links and then judge who has to be brought to international court for crime against human right in Southern Ossetia or anywhere else!! can you explain why Russian nationalists kill doesons of chinese people in Moscow??

Everybody needs to acknowledge that Russian military boots never stop, not too far ago there were almost all former republics – Georgia, Baltic nations, Ukrain,Armenia, Azerbaijan, all nations of North Caucasus are under thet at prepsent, Poland, Finland, Chekhoslovakia, today its victim again is Georgia, tommorow it can be any country, Russia needs to be stopped, it is a plague of 20 and 21 centuries!! if not stopped, it will desroy whole world, and then nobody will need any oil or gas.

Please help us to STOP the DANGER to the MANKIND

Jeffery, I couldn't disagree with you more... although I found the informational content to be interesting, it has been a long time since I have read such a poorly written article. Clearly the author did not muster up the energy, time or brain power to write an article in clearer, more concise English. Grammatical errors abound & I must ask, where on Earth was the editor? Writing articles on the Web should not be an excuse for poor writing skills – if nothing else, it should be seen as an opportunity to elevate the level of language we use, not cheapen it.

the only thing I don't understand is why are people saying that "if US invaded Irag, why couldn't Russia invade GEORGIA? well here is an answer to that question: US invaded iraq to overthrow dictatorship and promote democracy in the region, I think this is a very good reason. And on the other hand what did Russia do? well, Russia has tried to overthrow a democratically elected government. that basically tells you that Russia is against Democracy. Russia has a dictator Putin. shame on Medvedev, he is like a little kid and does what he is told by his daddy Putin. that's another thing Russia should be ashamed of. they have a President that people don't really know a much about him because he is always behind the scene like a kid who awaits for his parents orders to move on further. Putin is running the whole show. let me tell you this that many people compare Putin to Stalin, who by the way was Georgian, but Putin is more like Hitler. He will destroy his own country. Russia thinks it is strong, but that thinking will kill Russia. NATO proved to Russia that they can do what ever they wants and Russia can't stop it. want an example? Missle protection that is going to be established in Poland, who is it against, Russia. who is next after poland? Czeck Republic. what does this tell you? NATO wanted this conflict with Georgia so it can paralize Russian hopes at its borders by placing missles aiming at Russia. I feel bad for Russian People that its government does not care about its own people. Russia is putting itself at danger and it will destroy its standing in the world, which will strart economical impacts in Russia. No Money no Power, no Power no self defence. there is your story of near future. Good Bye Russia...Another thing about Russia is that they will do anything for money. example? a very good one, they were paid to collapse Soviet Union, Russia took money over its country. it's in them. one more time, Good bye Russia, your era is over. I support Georgia and Europe.

Georgia attacked Ossetia in the first day of Olimpic games. I find that it's also a political action against Russia.
Respect for those americans who understand our position.

Sorry for my English.

Below is my view on the situation in South Ossetia. Description and my
understanding of the developments are based on the data available in
public domain as of evening August 10.

Background
South Ossetia is a region with unclear status. It's bordering Russia
in the north and Georgia in the south. After USSR collapse the
territory became a part of independent Georgia state. Since then 2
referendums were conducted in South Ossetia where majority of
population voted for independence.
Numerous military conflicts (between South Ossetia and Georgia) took
place since then; eventually UN involvement resulted in start of
diplomatic discussion and introduction of UN peacekeepers (composed of
Russian and Georgian troops) into the region. More info on the region
can be found
hear: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Ossetia

All changed 8 August 2008. Georgian military forces entered the region
and during 8-9 Aug almost destroyed the capital of the region -
Tskhinvali.
Russian provocation was called as a reason. 2000 civilians reported
dead.
How many are yet under the ruins – unknown. Continuing Georgian
attacks prevent full scale evacuation

Scale
What is 2000 people? We are speaking about roughly 1% of the total
population of the republic. Imagine US loses 3mm people or UK loses
600th people overnight.. Looking from another angle, it's a fair
assumption that each of us knows at least 100 people in his country -
so there is NO ONE is South Ossetia who did't lose a relative, friend,
or acquaintance during last 3 days.

Is it about energy?
President Saakashvili in his interviews to BBC and other sources
continuously repeats Russian aim in the conflict is destroying
Georgian democracy (in general) and control over Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan
oil pipeline (in particular). Attributing the first to Saakashvili's
paranoia (and not commenting any further), the second argument is
peculiar – Georgian Economics minister said on Saturday 'Russian
bombers tried to attack the pipeline, but.. missed'. Well, I am not a
military expert but it's quite clear that if there indeed were such a
goal – it would be achieved.

BP (who is one of the shareholders in the pipeline consortium) later
stated they didn't notice any attacks on the pipe

Media coverage
I was surprised to see lots of pages of text and pictures on BBC
website describing Russian bombing of Gori – a Georgian town nearby
South Ossetia.
A few dozens of civilians were reported killed. And just one paragraph
on the whole town of Tskhinvali was destroyed.. Where is unbiased
coverage?

Gori. Russia did bomb military objects on Georgian territory. Do you
know the way how to make sure no single civilian affected?..

Interesting – in the first few hours of the conflict Saakashvili
managed to give interviews to a number of international media sources
(I know about BBC, Bloomberg). Key thesis – 'small democracy Georgia
is suffering from the aggressive actions of a powerful empire'. Russia
meanwhile unsuccessfully tried to get UN state its position..

I explain the bias in coverage by lack of information from South
Ossetia so far. But situation changes. Thousands of refuges (up to
15,000 reported) are gone to North Ossetia (part of Russia) – I hope
this is a large enough information source for international media to
get a picture of what has happened. I expect information from that end
start flowing on Monday describing the picture very different from
what media was speaking over the weekend

US / UN
US Deputy National Security Adviser James Jeffrey said Russia risks
seriously deteriorate relationships with the US if continues to attack
Georgia..

Well.. I always thought this is UN who is in charge of dealing with
such international conflicts – not US. But UN keeps silence, and US
was one of the countries who blocked a discussion on this issue on
Friday August 8.

I think for US it will be very difficult to openly support Georgia in
this situation – genocide of ossetians is hard to conceal, evidence
from a few thousands of refugees (25% of population of the region) is
a hard to ignore argument..

The very latest news seem to show US does continue to support
Georgia..
Well, welcome, Mr.Bush, with your famous policy of double standards! I
now probably understand better those who use the term Empire of Evil
when referring to your country..

Questions to Saakashvili
I can understand why Saakashvili hates Russians, I can understand why
Saakashvili doesn't care about ossetians, but I can't really
understand why he doesn't like Georgia and Georgians so much? All of
his actions so far were aiming at forcing Russia to make an emotional
move (ruin half of Georgia for example) – fortunately, rationale took
over emotions so far on Russian side. Why do you don't care about your
country so much putting it in such a position, Mr.Saakashvili?

I wonder how Georgia will explain Georgian peacekeepers shooting at
Russian peacekeepers – 13 reported dead

And finally, I wonder how it feels to destroy a town full of
civilians?
Clearly only the president can give such an order.

Conclusion
At this point it's worth mentioning that Russia is NOT IN WAR WITH
GEORGIA – if it were in a real war with Georgia today, tomorrow
Georgia would not exist – I think this is quite obvious

So far the Georgian action looks like provocation and largely was not
followed in the way Georgia probably planned – Russia remained in the
UN-type framework of dealing with such situation. Bombing of military
objects within Georgia may be questioned here – but UN history knows
similar examples when peacekeepers had to conduct such preemptive
actions under similar circumstances

The world will get a true picture soon. I can't see how Saakashvili
manages to keep his leadership in such a situation in the medium term
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"The Russian military action in Georgia was not undertaken just with President Mikheil Saakashvili and Tbilisi in mind."
Saakashvili launched an attack that almost destroyed Tskinvali, where live russian citizens. More over russian piece keeping forces where under attack. What would US do if Iran would atack it's forces in Iraq or Afganistan?

"Russia’s first military incursion into another country since the break-up of the old Soviet Union was a deliberate demonstration that Vladimir Putin’s Russia (and the conduct of the conflict made absolutely clear that it is still Putin’s, not Medvedev’s Russia) does not care about popularity."
All of that anti Russia propaganda is mainly going on the west. Putin is more than popular in his homecountry – all of his actions are fully supported by russian population. (and believe me his raiting would fall, if he did not interfer in the conflict).

What happen to CNN journalism? Are you guys trying to burn fuel of lies for WWIII so you can make money out of the news? Is American journalism manipulated by money insted of the truth?

I read a very biased articale in almost all American news websites. You dont compare pictures of Gori and Tskhinvali. Gori is looted but Tskhinvali is flattened.

The American mongrels!!!! You have already bothered all world!!! Look who you operates – the fool and the moron!!! Also cease to climb not in the business!!!!

I am shocked of these people cruelty. They support Russia known the long history of its brutality. Teaching lesson to small nation, enforce kneeling, that what these people grown in soviet and post soviet era real motivations are. They became concern of so called South Ossetia learned that Georgia might resume its authority on its own land, belonged many centuries to it and where still live Georgia nations.
Even term south Ossetia was invented long ahead USSR collapsed, as the possible leverage against Georgians’ strive to freedom. S.Ossetia broke away as Georgenes clamed independence. One needs a little analysis to get that small nations never can be aggressive against big, mighty and brutal neighbour. Watch Russian officials language it is not language of modern diplomacy, this most affluent people never learnt respect of others lives, they use propaganda machine to hide real problems of their own citizens.
We observed Russain solders looting most ordinary household items like toothbrush, and used shoes, the army which serves to most corrupt and wealthy establishment of the world. Russains think about that! Where were you ordinary citizens now claiming being concern of rights S. Ossetians when Russia swept away people during three Checeh wars.

I agree with you Gabor,

I am from Finland and we also know Russia’s real face. As you said what should we expect from Russians? Invasions, raising ethnic tensions, dividing small nations. How come it seems Russia have no real friends. And how could they when offering always a stick, never a carrot.

And for You sitting safely in the US think twice. I mean, are you so naive to believe that Russia would not have attacked Georgia without Kosovo getting independence? We here in the cold know far more better. For experience is a cruel teacher, but by God one learns! Russia finds always an excuse to “save” or “libarate” us neighbouring small nations from the burden of ruling our own lives. Or do you really think that Russia has become the world’s largest state only by piecefeful means?

Or as the great leader V.Putin himself puts it nice: “the collapse of the Soviet Union was the greatest geopolitical catastrophe of the 20th century,”

To Vova_Tbilisi
It`s no difference if Abhazia and S.Ossetia were parts of Georgia or not. I`m historian & I know that every point of view has it`s arguements.
Much more important is that Abhazians and Ossetians don`t want to live in Georgia.
Last year I was in Abhazia and was amused astonished how Abhazians hate the Georgians.
I still support the law of territorial integrity but after what has happened in Kosovo it`s not a law any more.

Kirill,

just to give you more info – As Vova_Tbilisi has mentioned, South Osetia did not exist until Bolsheviks gave the name of Autonomous Oblost to one part of the region of Georgia. This territory is part of the Shida Kartli region of Georgia. Kartli has always been the important part of Georgia, in fact, the name of the country comes from this name: Sakartvelo.

The territory of "South Osetia" was called Samachablo, right before Bolsheviks named it Autonomous Oblast.This territory is adjacent to Osetia, and respectively a lot of people of Osetian ethnicity had lived and live there. Therefore, Soviet Russia decided to give the name of North Osetia and South Osetia.

As you know we border with quite a number of countries – thus with quite a number of ethnicities. We have lots of ethnicities living in Georgia – right at the border of Armenia, we have lost of Armenian ethnicities living in Georgia – citizens of Georgia; At the border of Azerbaijan – we have lots of Azeri ethnicities – citizens of Georgia. The same case has been in Samachablo – since it is an adjacent territory to Osetia (now called North Osetia) – many people of Osetian ethnicities lived in Samachablo.

During USSR period, the two more territories have been given autonomous status by Soviet Russia: Abkhazia and Adjara.

In Abkhazia, Abkhaz people are said to be a tribe – having their own habits, dialect – but they have always been part of Georgia. We have other historical tribes as well – Lazi, Chani, etc. Up to date, in Samegrelo (adjacent region to Abkhaz region) – speak a dialect which is different from official Georgian; Svani people – have their own dialect as well. – This is just to give you an idea that Georgia is a tiny country, but very diverse in terms of culture and in terms of uniting people of various ethnic background.

Another region bearing autonomous republic status is Adjara – and you may know well that this had been controlled by a family clan/mafia until recently, when Aslan Abashidze had to flee to Russia. Russia has always been encouraging separatism in Georgia. Given such a diversity, the country can be quite fragile.

So weighing between the two evils: one uses brains/soft power to have control in the region, the other uses aggression and oppresion to gain control in the region, which one should we go for? Strategically, it would have been so much better if we allied with Russia – but Russia had always been trying to oppress Georgia. So, in other words you could say that Russia has to use a bit more brains and a bit less of military power.

Just a note: whereby I use a word Russia, I mean the Government of Russia

The world is watching Russia. If Russian troops continue to push into Georgia, God forbid into Tbilisi, the world will know the truth, that Russia wants to control Georgia. The Georgian people have wanted to be an independent nation. The US did not coerce them. Why can't Russia allow Georgia to exist? The world will never again trust Russia if Putin rolls into Tbilisi. The world is watching every move.

This is real chance for Europe and US to established in caucasus region and that information of dead people who are more than 2000 is russian desinformation (like an old soviet times)

To Gal from Georgia

I'll ask about it my teacher of history, thank you.

But we are arguing about different points. I repeat – t's not the main thing if was Ossetia Georgia's or not.

You said "Russia invaded Georgia... no matter what justification they gave it to it". I just told you it matters. Russia would never send its forces to "Georgia's territory" if Georgia hadn't attack Osetians. You understand this, I think.

So, is weapon the best way of prooving that Ossetians should live with you in one country? How can you look in their eyes than? What will you say to them? "We began bombardment just because we want to live with you in peace together"?

And you said Russia had (I think you mean has) always been trying to oppress your country. And you want independence. Ok, now I know what independence is – american money for government, american guns, american trainees, and money even for coming to the meeting of independence (I don't know exactly how it was named, some days before).

And you ask why our government doesn't love yours? Because with such politicians Georgia can burn all the Caucasus. We don't need it, when finally there is peace now.

A few thoughts about all;

I decided not to read any more entries and go straght to the point since I am quite pressed for time. I dug around and found that the territory to the northwestern side of Georgia is the only one that was anexed during Georgia's quite long history (I had no clue that Georgia had existed this long). South Ossetia does not seem to have a history as a territory.

Earlier I had said that Russias expansionism had started in the 1300's. Someone corrected me by saying that I need to get my facts straight because it started in the 1800's. My thought was; "So, they are expansionistic!"

Ossetia started it; Georgia started, Russia started it. Who cares!!! Innocent civilians on all sides (except the Russian of course) are dying.

I hear that Russia is exerting it's authority in the region; Yes it is. And if this does not come out to a good resolution every country that was part of the Soviet Union and the Warsaw pact need to fear for their existance. If this is a testosterone shower everyone needs to remember that if push comes to shove; 3 out of 4 of us (yes, you and I) will be dead and these blogs are worth nothing then. CAn you spell N-U-C-L-E-A-R powers?

Leaders; Stalin was from Ossetia or Georgia. Whatever. STalin wiped out MILLIONS of people to appease his paranoia. In a situation like the current one he would have wiped out one or the other (the ossetians or the georgians). He would have even killed his own mother if he thought that she was against him. Bush? hey, hate him all you want. He is part of history now and, like Stalin; history will be his judge.. Putin? He is, and will be the defacto Tsar of Russia. Eight years as president; How many can he be prime minister? Where I come from the dictator decided who was president and when to take him down. To the world it seemed that the people was electing the president. I used to admire Putin for bringing Russia around. After all Yelstin didn't seem to be an effective leader. . Russia deserved a strong leader. Not a Tsar. My admiration for Putin has gone rasputin. The Georgian President; I tend to think that there is something wrong with this man. I can't quite figure it out yet. However, there is something wrong with him. .

If "the west" has no intention of hurting Russia and Russia has no intention of taking over the former Soviet republics and the Warsaw Pact countries then why are we in the situation we are in? Someone is lying (or both)?

This article is a lucid analysis of the complicated game of political chess we play with the Russians. Having a Russian spouse and having spent time in Russia among the everyday population in Moscow and elsewhere in the Russian Federation, I understand Putin's recent remark that Russia is a culture unto its own. This has to be factored when dealing with that re-emerging superpower.

We may trade burgers and fries with Russia and spin around in space together, but our visions of the world are very different.

I shall get you frauds!!!!!!!!!!!

Usual american practice.
To stuff weak point with weapon.
Fire it and set here military base.

NO one talked about 2000 Tskhinvali civilians murdered by georgian missles! Isn't it a genoside? Saakashvili must already been jailed for that crime. US simply use Georgia for their own interests, and to undermine Russia's authority. Actually, neither Abhazians nor South Ossetians would not be a part of Georgia. Minimum, They want to be independent of Georgia, and more likely to be a part of Russia. But this is another story...

Here is the question: Who was the main street of Tbilisi (capital of Rep of Georgia, not the great State I live in) was named after? Who was the road connecting the biggest airport in that country to their capital named after? Every high level official of that country has his picture in their office. Who is he? He is the greatest U.S. President of all times – George W. Bush.
Republic of Georgia military spending increased 30 times(!) over the past 5 years and became the largest in the world per capita, over 1 billion with a "B" US Dollar of yours and my tax money went in there as weapon systems and such. Were they preparing for "restoring constitutional order in another nation of South Ossetia"? All that weaponry to be taken apart by the Russians last week. Great investment! All of the media is completely biased on it. I did not expect every single one of them to be that way, but when you remember how they "prepared" us for the Iraqi war, its all comes together. Americans were the only people on the planet thinking that war was about something other than oil :(

I have now realised what a low down, un-ethical news agency the CNN is. News agencies are supposed to report the truth as they see it and not what the propoganda is. Today I applaud the russian papers for their accurate depiction of events that have occured. The CNN has been totally west biased and have shown that they are not a news agency to be trusted. Of course you will not have the guts to post this comment also

Wow, the Russians are online in force spouting their state sponsored propaganda, nationalism and American hatred. Russia continues to move backward and their own citizens are completely blind to it.

I'm amazed by the naivete of posts here. You have to look at all media with a skeptical eye. In my mind this isn't about Ossetians or Georgians, they're just the victims in the old power struggle. To hold Russia up as some kind of victim or champion of peace is incredibly ridiculous – they've been manipulating the situation there for a long time.

South Ossetians, Abkhazians and people of Adjaria deserved to be FREE. Let them vote and let them be. LET MY PEOPLE GO!

The situation with Russia and Georgia s very tragic. Abhazia and S.Ossetia have always been an issue for both nations since Georgia's independence. Location is a key issue since this is an are of the world where you have separatist movements that have proved violent such as Armenia and Azerbaijan's claims over Nagorno-Karabakh, Chechnya, Dagestan, as well as the Kurdish separatist movement in Turkey, and possibly reignite separatist movements in Iran that once occured in the Kurdish areas, which would mean bad news for Iraq..

What Russia is doing in regards to is support for Abhazia and S.Ossetia is the same as Belgium's support for Katanga and Kasai during the Congo Crisis of the early 60s when Belgium gave up the Congo. The only difference is that during that time it was the Cold War and everybody such as the US, Russians, Cubans, Chinese, and to a lesser extent the Eastern Bloc, Egypt(under Nasser), Algeria, and most independent African nations decided to fund various separatist groups or the central government which resulted in these nations plundering the wealth and putting the nation under a US backed money hungry dictatorship that lasted for 32 years.

If and when Georgia decides to join NATO and the EU, Abhazia and S.Ossetia will relaunch the bloody uprisings that plagued Georgia during the early days of independence. it will also limit Russia's influence and access to Armenia which has been historically close to Russia

This message is for that ignorant person who Id's himself or herself as ANTIUSA. Anytime, anywhere mouth!
If it wasn't for the United States you people and the rest of Europe would be speaking German now under the boots of the NAZIS!
It never fails to amaze me that these people from Russia have these ignorant comments to make.
Ask the generations who lived under the boot of Stalin how great things were then! Ask the Eastern Europeans how great it was!
The Georgians are a FREE people in their FREE nation and the Russians have no right to intercede in the the Georgians' business.
As far as kicking our butts. Check the military history of the last 30 years or so and you will find that each time U. S. military systems, air forces, ground forces and naval forces have been employed by either the U. S. military or some other country against Russian systems the U.S. systems have been overwhelmingly victorious!
For example: when Israel and Syria went at each other back in 1982 or 1983 the Israelis employed U.S. made Hawkeye command and control (early warning) aircraft and U.S. made aircraft while the Syrians used Russian equipment. The aircraft score: Israel 83 to 0!!!
During the first Gulf War with Iraq the U. S. and it's allies used mostly U. S. made arms systems against the Iraqis and we all know what the outcome of that war was!!!
I'll put the United States military up against any other country's military
and WE WIN everyday and twice on Sundays!!!
The Russians have Nukes just like us and I'm sure they would love to use them on us. That's not necessary but if it comes to that WE WIN then two because we can hit them faster with stealth technology that they don't possess.
Give it up clown. You're a loser like your country!
Glenn R. Smith
P.S. I'm not afraid to use my real name asshole. have you got the guts!?!

The article is a little bit better than many others on that topic but!
The autor keeps repeting that because Georgia wants to enter NATO that's why Russia is angry but he says nothing about Kosovo effect on the whole conflict!
Why Kosovo can be independent but S Ossetia and Abkhazia can not? I have not seen any comment in CNN making that conection!
If MacCain support Kosovo independence does he support S Ossetia and Abkhazia independence? If not, why?

FREE Georgians are FREE to attack Ossetia or Abkhazia? Really?
And USA rescued Russia from Hitler, when? In 1944 was Soviet Union pushed German forces back to Germany

I find it ironic that those in defense of the Russian state’s actions in Georgia claim to have read all sides to the story and totally neglect the true body count in South Osettia. Human Rights Watch, an unbiased agency which defends human rights wherever and whoever they may be, has quoted South Osettia’s own hospital as admitting only 44 bodies have been brought to their morgue. The first number I read was 100 and I have watched this number steadily decline from there. To account for the discrepancy, South Ossetian officials are claiming it is because families have already buried their dead. Oh? Under the intense firepower Georgia is accused of raining down on them? Weren’t they busy running for their lives towards Russia’s border. Or did 2,000 families stop in the middle of all the raining shrapnel and say, “hey, let’s bury our dead first?” And let’s not forget that Human Rights Watch saw no evidence of all these bodies Russia and South Ossetia are claiming were laying around.

And before anyone gets the wrong idea, I am not trying to downplay the significance of the dead, because in my opinion, 44 dead humans is 44 too many. Also, while I have no doubts Georgia did in fact attack South Ossetia, the question remains, why? Is it because, as I have read on multiple occasions, the South Ossetian separatists attacked Georgia first? If so, was it Putin that put them up to it? In my mind, this makes more sense than the illogical opinions I’ve been reading lately. Georgia knew very well that Russia had issued citizenship to the majority of South Ossetians. They also knew that Russia would come to their defense and that they would get pummeled in any war against Russia. And with world politics the way they are right now, they also had to know the West wasn’t about to come to their defense militarily. So why commit suicide unless there was a reason?

Putin is still smarting from what he views as humiliation because of the downfall of the Soviet Union and the loss of the cold war. In fact, Putin is on record as stating, “the collapse of the Soviet Union was the biggest geo-political disaster of the 20th century,” (Really? What of Nazism?). And now they have countries on their borders, countries they once held sway over, itching to join the EU and NATO. Just one of the many straws that broke the camels back.

Another issue is oil. During Ukraine’s Orange Revolution, Putin showed he is not a reliable partner when it comes to being an energy supplier by turning off the spigot in the middle of winter. To him, oil is a weapon to be used to enforce his ideology. The danger signs were clear to the West; Putin is not a partner to be trusted. How to get around this? Build a pipeline through the Caucus that bypasses Russia entirely. And Georgia just happens to be situated perfectly for just such a pipeline. What would happen if Putin took control of Georgia? He would have an absolute monopoly on oil coming out of Central Asia. Take that monopoly away and his most effective weapon becomes obsolete. Not to mention a loss of oil revenue. Is it any wonder Putin would instigate the Georgian conflict?

I can see the gears turning in everyone’s head now; I must be a Russia hater. Far from it! My wife is from Russia and my in-laws and many friends still live in Russia. In fact, I love the Russian people and would not hesitate to jump to their defense, as I have often done, and continue to do! But what I do hate is the fact that Putin is eroding democratic reforms, has taken away freedom of the press where all media is once again state controlled, has eliminated all political opposition, and is leaning towards a more authoritarian regime. Basically, he is he trying to reestablish the old Soviet order and is willing to put down any who stand in his way. It is this that I hate. And while I can understand our Russian commentator’s pride in Russia, it is misplaced. Pride in ones nation does not come from the barrel of a gun, it comes from its people. And if you allow Putin to take you down the path he is heading, you will have much to lose. Most importantly, your voice as a people!

I told my wife in 2000 that I trusted neither Bush nor Putin. And I have had 8 years of being proven correct.

That is what I like about the Russians – They go in kick-ass and apply diplomacy after. The US Begs for help – sets resolutions then squeaks in – Oh and then we make the country rich at our expense – run out and claim victory!

It's funny that the Americans are the first to demand that the Russians withdraw, but If I remember most of the world was against the invasion of Iraq and it's been 7-8 years since they have been there. It'd be mildly amused if anyone even cared that the current administration thought that the Russians had ruined their reputation... sounds like what's been happening to the American Image for a while.

The Americans took away they chance to be a force for diplomacy with cowboy politics, and the Georgians were conned into believing that anyone would come to their aid against the Russians.

People seem to forget the stand off of the Cuban missile crisis, The Americans would not let a threat such as Russia place missiles in a strategic location as close and dangerous as Cuba. The same idea is applied here, The Russians could try to place a missile defense system in Cuba and the result would just be a vocal.

To Mr. Glen Smith
Since my wife calls me a loser also, I think Mr. Glen Smith is talking to me more than other “ANTIUSA people”? I assume ANTIUSA is an oil producing country soon to be invaded to liberate its people from its o….bad government. Mr. Glen Smith is actually right about a few things. US weapons is one of them. US modern tanks, navy and morale are great examples. US Cold War designers always designed their systems to be the best (and most complicated). Russian designers designed their systems to be very simple and to provide a fighting chance against the US systems at 10% cost of the US systems. Ex.: AK-47 costs $35 to make, M-16 cost over $600 to US tax payers. Wars proved some systems to be better than others, expensive systems were not always better than their cheaper counterparts. Republic of Georgia did not spend US money on US weapons because of their cost, they purchased Soviet era modernized equipment including hundreds of T-72, T-62 tanks, from Bulgaria, Ukraine, Poland etc... Israel sent them some modern equipment also. All they got from the US was M-16s, transport helicopters, anti aircraft missiles, some other stuff possibly, instructors to train their military. Even if they got all the best stuff from the US, they did not have a chance anyway. Russians who rejoice about kicking buts of those Georgians, all 6 of them, are sick people, they need help. Mr. Glen Smith also proves that Public Schools do not work. Read up on WW2, I suggest any British middle school history book. Military Channel (a US show) is a great source on weapon systems and some history. The show will disagree with you on most things though.
There is a long list of wars you mentioned there, add them all together and the war in Viet Nam is still the biggest of all of them combined, how come you have not mentioned it? You will not see NATO’s troops in Iraq, (other than US and British and Republic of Georgia until recently) because they know that war was wrong. You will see them in Afghanistan, because Bin Laden killed 3000 US citizens on 9/11, not Saddam.
It’s all not about winning or losing, everybody loses at war, very often the ones who think they just won, lose at the end, it’s about innocent people dying because of a couple of idiots. Every country and people are precious, all deserve to determine their fate on their own, whether it’s South Ossetia, Georgia, Abkhazia or Kosovo. The rest of the world wants the USA to be responsible again and American people not to be brainwashed into some war adventures, new Cold War to benefit the few. Events of the last 10 years will unfortunately shrink US global influence over the next 10 years. It seems that our new president will not be much different. Neither ran anything, one is a war monger the other is a communist, the choice is between bad and worst again, the war monger is better for my wallet though. How come Arnold Shwartznegge or Dana Rohrabacher are not running?

P.S. My name is Oleg Ator

To Max:(who posted here at August 14th, 2008 1921 GMT) :

Well, I think that your quick digest of the recent history related to that crisis is quite good and as adequate as any quick digest could be.

I just would like to make some remarks about several points in it.

1) As for "Family" in Shevardnadze rule – well, I know nothing particular about that time in Georgia, but I know quite well (from many sources) that there was very high level of corruption in Georgia in Soviet times – certainly much higher than USSR average, and the same is probably true about organized crime (mafia-like). So this probably does not depend on Shevardnadze – it's more like a tradition, which cannot cease too quickly, especially in the period of massive privatization etc. Also, there was a period (1990th and later), not only in Georgia, but in Russia as well, when "Families" at the top came naturally – because being surrounded with atmosphere or betrayal, even the most honest leader is tempted to rely heavily on family ties.

I'd like to make soft reference here to the film "Falling Leaves" ("Listopad" in Russian), by famous Georgian director Otar Iosseliani. There is no serious corruption or crime is this film – just an ordinary life – but one can feel a whiff of atmosphere and sense that both serious corruption and organized crime cannot be too far, and that the family ties mean too much for prosperity in this society.

2) As for that the blitz krieg failed by pure chance – I would rather say that it might succeed by pure chance... because the odds against Georgian army were very high – including their internal weaknesses as a military organization,. so they were practically bound to make severe and even disastrous errors.

3) As for "era of Potsdam and Helsinki is over, borders are not sacred any more after Kosovo and Ossetia" – well, I would not see a reason for this statement – both these cases are among the direct and obvious consequences of the crashes of pseudo-federal states (Yugoslavia and USSR), which just ceased to exists, and both these examples are just splinters of those former states. And I see no other examples so far. Therefore I think that the borders of *well-established* or long-established states (for examples, those who was established before Helsinki) are still sacred enough.

4) As for "democracy is pitifully diminished worldwide because of fight for natural resources" – well, there always was fierce fight for resources, there is nothing new in that. What is new – is "globalization", Internet, computers, databases, satellites, mobile phones, and battalions of "think tanks". (At the same time I must confess that I don't know what is democracy and why it is so good that we must lament its diminishing – I never tasted it personally... all what I really know about it – is just a Churchill's saying – that the democracy is very bad form of government, but all other forms are worse.)

To From-Holland (who posted here on August 14th, 2008 2042 GMT)

You asked:

"NOW MY QUESTION IS WHO ARE THEY (RUSSIAN) TO BLOCK GEORGIAN JOINING TO EU AND NATO??????"

I'd like to answer you here. Only please don't regard EU and NATO.as something very similar to each other, which should always be alongside each other.

Indeed it is hard to see any serious right or even just a reason for Russia to oppose vehemently Georgian entry to EU.

But NATO is another matter – it is a military alliance. And Georgian entry to NATO means not only that other NATO members will defend Georgia, but also that Georgia must participate in all NATO military preparations and efforts, which NATO Council deemed desirable.

This means that if NATO once decided that some hostile actions (not necessary actual fighting – it may be just gathering intelligence or something like that) should be taken against Russia then Georgia must participate, providing its land, facilities and personnel.

And at the same time Georgia and Russia are neighbors. So, if Georgia enters NATO, it gives NATO new capability to carry its operations (possibly somehow hostile to Russia) from Georgian territory -that is, immediately over the Russian border.

So, the answer to you question – "who are they (Russians)...?" regarding NATO membership is simple and direct – they are neighbors to Georgia. And if it is not enough for you – well, they are not kind of neighbors that you may easily brush aside.

unlike foreign strawmen like North Korea and Iran, the russians are quite dangerous. They know two things for sure; the West read that NATO connot defeat them in a ground conflict(they never could and never planned on trying). In spite of all the strategic goomwa we've been fed over the past 15 years, Both of us still posess several thousand multi-stage thermonucler weapons. Most people have no concept of how destructive these damn things are. I worked many years at the Nevada Test Site, and believe me you don't want to know. To revive a Khurschev and Kennedy scanerio at this point over events we have no influence may seem logical to George Bush, John McBush and perhaps even Barack Obush, but is laughable. The second thing they know is we become too sclerotic politically and yes economically and way too pain averse to try shove them around over matters of how they deal with their past and future empire. A good dose of concerted statecraft is called for, not only with the Russians but nearly everyone else in today"s world... Don't hold your breath!

Russia is fascist country – and always was so – Ivan Grozniy – Stalin – Brejnev – Putin (and many in between) – Putin made full circle – he returned country to the same state Gorbachev pick it it up – he canceled all russia has reach during 10 years of perestroika – so cold was has begun – and if US and NATO won't "fight" back – real war is not too far

addition
Georgia is free country to decide – NATO or not – and what I can say about solders who steal enemy's uniforms and actually ware them – I guess these solders are basically suck – I can't imagine American solder in iranian uniform fighting on the streets of Iraq ( of course if he is not special forces – but russian Ivans are far from special forces)

USA did not invade Iraq. It had thousands of resolutions from all international institutions to do so. That is how civilized countries act in 21 century. Did Russia have any? The answer is NO.

2 Alexander (St.-Petersburg, Russia)
Thanks for your appreciation.

Re your first comment – yes, there was always thought to be a higher degree of corruption in Georgia, but under Shevarnadze it became simply outrageous. Do you think Saakashvili would be have much chance if Shevarnadze's regime was not completely, ultimately rotten? It resembles the story of Nero's fall in ancient Rome – as you remember, Galba, a provincial governor, simply marched his legion from Spain to Rome to kick Nero out, with Roman units and officials along his route were joining him. Nero fled and was killed, no one fought for him. Galba marched into Rome and everybody welcomed him. Galba was an uncapable general, he was a greedy, silly, suspicious old fat man (he was killed months later, but Roman people supported him just because Nero's reign was a nightmare anyway. In same way almost everybody supported Saakashvili, just because it was so awful under Shevarnadze – total corruption, not able to control itself. In this sense, I understand a lot of Georgians still trust in Saakashvili.

Re your second point I agree to some extent after reading a report by Stratfor that somebody posted a link for up above. Georgian generals should have known that Russian forces are ready. But the chance was to win the tunnel, which they could have done very well – if Georgian commandoes could ambush staff vehicles of 58th russian army, they could have destroy a tunnel. Land operation then would become impossible for Russians and air operation would not be able to be as successful – Russia lost 4 aircraft, and overall were not very proficient in air.

Your item 3 – borders – yes I understand that borders of Switzerland are perhaps better off, but it was always the question in Europe about the 'vague' borders where nations are divided by borders or where there are ethnic minorities. Every signigicant international pan-european settlement (Westfalia 1648, Wien 1815, Hague 1924, Potsdam 1945, Helsinki 1975) was ending with clear resolute message: anything might change, just don't change the borders. This principle was then after a while being washed out every time – by France and Sweden in 17th century, by Prussia (Germany) in 19th, by Nazis in 1930s, and now the Potsdam-Helsinki system is being finally destroyed by Russia and U.S. That's what I meant.

After all I read in here and elsewhere, I can conclude small nations are loosing, and big ones are gaining, at least materially: Russia will consolidate its regime and finally get two pieces of land south of Caucasus. US will consolidate republican electorate, it will also get Georgia now fully on its side. Apart from pity for small nations, I can only express pity about Russian-Georgian relations. Unfortunately we can only pray to God it stops before the two orthodox Christian nations become fully hostile to each other. I would very much like to hear what Patriarchs Alexey and Iliya have to say.

To young and hot advocates of U.S. and/or Russia. Please stop promoting hatred. Let's face reality: we, common people, will never be able to figure out who was the first one to start it, it's senseless. Watch the brilliant Wall E movie – people there don't do anything and have no control, they just cruise around in their flying armchairs, exchanging messages and chatting in the net on board a giant luxury space ship. They are pretty much like us – we here don't do anything and we have no control. Let's think of what we can do to decrease danger – if nothing else, we can avoid spreading hatred and arrogance in this blog.

to Max.
agree 100%

Dear Tanya
I have read your address to all and I understand you I always burst into tears when I see dead, hungry, ill people it is very difficult to watch and to feel their pain but can you tell me what were your (Russian) peacemakers doing when Ossetians attacked Georgian villages? when separatists fired on peaceful population when hearts and eyes of children were full of danger and fear? where were peacemakers when Abkhazian separatists were doing the same? or the peacemakers are only for separatists? I hope you know Georgians and you must know that we are peaceful and very hospitable nation and we are not initiators of war your president (Medvedev???) Putin must be responsible for all that happened in these breakaway regions.

As you see we (Georgians) have a high level of tolerance we are nation who can love close people and enemies too if you watch TV you can see that Georgians feed Russian soldiers and Georgian police give them money to buy all that is needed so don't blame us in aggression or any other crime do not accuse us we just want to be heard and understood we want the unity of our country and we want our territories back we lived as one for centuries and if Russia won't interfere we will continue our relations and life as one peaceful nation :)

I like your analysis, it is right on target; and your writing skill. I am looking forward to your books.

Just a little digression: over 60 years ago an emotional decision had been made to start uprising in Warsaw (August 1944) against Nazis. Soviets could have helped; the Allies should have helped. The city was leveled, 200,000 people lost their lives, during two summer months. The big warning against political illusions and evil Soviets. Georgia forgot this lesson, although overall the world is much friendlier place to live.

To Max

"there was always thought to be a higher degree of corruption in Georgia, but under Shevarnadze it became simply outrageous"

Well may be, but remember that it was a period of massive grab ("privatization"). The same was in Russia during that period, and I remember very well that exactly the same words about "The Family" were heard everywhere – here that meant, of course, Yeltsin and his relatives and cronies. And of course, corruption skyrocketed here too. But nevertheless, for objective observers, Yeltsin remained basically honest politician (that is, the interests of the country remained his first priority, while the wealth and standing of relatives lay behind), And again. of course, many people hated him at the end of his
presidency, but this was far from enough to overthrow him.

So I believe that the surge of corruption in Georgia was not (at least mainly) a personal fault of Shevardnadze. Well, one can say that anyway he was not up to the task, but I'll reply that probably the task was just impossible.

"Do you think Saakashvili would be have much chance if Shevarnadze’s regime was not completely, ultimately rotten? It resembles the story of Nero’s fall in ancient Rome"

Regretfully, I'm not so educated historically (it is one of my dreams to read Gibbon eventually, but I'm not sure that this dream will be realized). But what about more fresh examples in the same Rome – how about the case of Mussolini? Is it true that the latter also entered Rome and got the power without a significant fight? Curiously enough, I associated Saakashvili with Mussolini from first sight – that is, several years ago, when he came to power and I saw his face and speech behavior (and this association only hardened with years).

"But the chance was to win the tunnel, which they could have done very well"

I can't resist the temptation to quote here an episode from "The Borgia Testament", by Nigel Balchin :

--------------
I can't remember anything else about that night, but what actually happened was that Michelotto secured the Palace and about a hundred thousands ducats in cash. The rest was already plundered by my father's servants. His men swept the streets without difficulty - there was no organised force against them. But they couldn't be everywhere at once and as soon as they had passed, the rioting and shouting started again behind them. This irritated Michelotto so he went and set fire to the Orsini palaces on Monte Giordano, which was a useless and stupid thing to do. But his worst failure was with the castle of St.Angelo. The warder was Francesco de Roccamura, a Spaniard and a trusted man of my father's. But Cardinals Santa Croce, Cesarini and dei Medici were there before us, and when Michelotto approached, Roccamura turned his guns on the streets and told him that St.Angelo would be held on behalf of the Sacred College, as the successors to Papal authority. He was in the right, of course, strictly speaking. But if I had been well or even if Michelotto had not wasted time lighting bonfires on Monte Giordano, there might have been a different story.
-------------

"- if Georgian commandoes could ambush staff vehicles of 58th russian army, they could have destroy a tunnel."

No, this implication is absolutely wrong. I don't know much about Western view on this, but it is quite clear that according to Russian military tradition, a critically important tunnel always is valued much more (and therefore has much stronger security) than a mere general with all his stuff. And anyway it is much much easier to set an ambush on a road than destroy or severely cripple a guarded tunnel.

Can anyone see some similarity between the actions in Georgia and the actions of Russian troops during the military coupe in August 1991?

CNN has always said that russia has invaded a democratically elected government in Georgia but US attacked a dictator in Iraq so they are to be treated differently

Below is a news article from an indian paper about a dictator
Quote
The United States wants former Pakistan President Pervez Musharraf to be "treated with respect" and is willing to give him a visa if he wishes to leave for America following his ouster, an official said.

"We have always said he is a friend of ours and he needs to be treated with respect," the Dawn daily quoted an unnamed State Department official as saying.
Unquote

So what this boils down to is who supports the US and who dosent not about democracy or anything like that. The US has never had a single agenda which does not change oops im sorry the only agenda is u support us or else.... it wont last much longer the star is rising in the east – that is china and russia is gaining its former might... so we can see the us influence crushed soon

To D.R. Glass re Warsaw uprising:

What a great and unknown to the West subject! In 1944 uprising Polish volunteers tried to get the Soviets in there to help them liberate Warsaw, were the Soviets capable of helping them? Yes, they have done it later. So why did they not help the Polish resistance at that time?
Here is what Wikipedia says:

"The Polish government-in-exile carried out frantic diplomatic efforts to gain support from their allies prior to the start of battle. However the Allies' support for the Polish resistance was not high on the priority list. The Polish government in London asked the Special Operations Executive (SOE) and the Foreign Office several times for an allied mission to be sent to Poland;[5] since such missions had already been dispatched to all other resistance movements in Europe, such as Albania, Czechoslovakia, France, Greece, Italy, Norway, Yugoslavia. However, the Polish pleas were not heeded until December 1944.
For the Soviets, this represented more of a hindrance than a help.

Even on this blog you hear some people say: "If it was not Americans, Europe would speak German". That's why the Red Army did not intervene. They did not want to help London to put the Polish government in exile back in Poland at the expense of the Red Army. Stalin probably thought: If they can liberate themselves let them do it. They failed of course, those were Germans they fighting, dude!!

Polish leaders at that time and today bought into the same stuff that Saakashvilli did. "If you believe in our values (double standards) and let us you country and people to get to the Russian borders – you are one of us and we will die for you." They did die for you during WW2.
Smaller nations were used by the bigger ones in their games and it seems like, unfortunately, we are getting back to it again.

according to the resolutaion of Nato meeting on august 19, 2008, there is a great concern whether some European countries forgot the bitter lessons from the near past, not to be dependent on soviet union/russia on the energy , which makes them dependent on russia politically and financially. to recall the second world war, soviet union and Germany had a "good" economical and political relationship, which didn't prevent from the second world war ...historical lessons must caution European countries to take measures not to make russia even stronger than they already have made it and to be objective when it matters to the small nations, as the problem will not stop and resolve here...in this relation i wanted to remind them that agreement taken in 1992 in Sochi has been breached from the beginning to the end and russians have made them selves "peacekeepers" on the territory of the foreign country of Republic of Georgia.

Do you pro-Russian people watch propaganda news stations like "Russia Today" all day? It it pity that people who went through communist regime can easily brainwashed by state controlled media in 21th century.
There is good website like http://www.theotherrussia.org that verifies some Russian did not lose their head. In the site, Russian human right watch group tells South Ossetia army attacked Georgian villages and Georgian army fought back against their aggression. The rest was followed by invasion of Russian troops into geogia. Did you see the images of S-Ossetia army looting civilians and shooting to the head of jounalist? Ossetians violates the international law to protect POW as well. Get real and do not be fooled by propaganda machine.

This is very sad, that nobody from the media is mentioning the fact that Georgia worned South Osetian separatists about possible georgian military action against osetian terrorists killing georgians and destroying georgian villages in Osetia. Since this worning, russians and osetians evaquated thousands of people to North Osetia and had enough time to prepare russian assault against Georgia.
For everybody familiar with soviet (russian) mentality, russian aggresion was not a surprise.

Very balanced story. Am I mistaken or does it seem the "spin" is actually stopping here these days? By the way, I support the Russians on this one. The Georgians brought this on themselves.

2 Dmitri(from Russia)... the only reason the United States is all over the world is because they are the only real super power left in the world. So guess who takes responsibility to police the world at their own expense, the US. The rest of the world basicaly doesn't want to spend any money as long as the problem doesn't pertain to them.

As an American, watching the situation from the outside in- I think we need to be careful about, immediately pointing the finger of blame at Russia. The fact is, we (US) over stated out case- in Georgia- we are not the do all and end all- and in that part of the world, Eastern Europe the Caususes and Russia need to work and live together. US should take the position, that all such countries are allys are promoted stability, and trust– not constantly trying to maneuver against Russia for leverage. If the cold war is over- then let's be smart and protect ourselves and lead by example. I'm not sure, what our objective is in, trying to squeeze Russia.

As an American, watching the situation from the outside looking in- I think pause before, immediately pointing the finger of blame at Russia. The fact is, we (US) over played our part- in Georgia. We are not the do all and end all, in that part of the world- and in that part of the world, Eastern Europe the Caucuses and Russia need to work and live together. US should take the position, that all such countries are allys of the US and promoted stability, and trust- as mediators– not constantly trying to maneuver against Russia for leverage. If the cold war is over- then let’s be smart about what's really important and protect ourselves and lead by example, Russia should be and seems to want be our ally, they seem to value their relationship with the west- we have a new threat in the world, and it's not communism. Although I think the US must have strong foreign policy with Russia, and Russia does display some disturbing behaviour at times- we can't forget how far russia has come, from the days of the cold war. I think, Russia and the US have little to fight about, and great reasons- to be become allies I’m not sure, what our objective is in, trying to put the squeeze Russia.

i am very disapointed with the new conflict with russia and georgia....i am very tired to hear nations justifying killing innocent people for whatever their interest is...all i know is that usa is beginning to play games with other nations...since the cia back on the job in the international field...the game has begun, a lot of people are going to die, a lot of nation are going to be fooled....usa does not solve problems we create them...and we keep the fire burning that is what usa does...
in this specific conflict we fooled the georgians, like we fooled the pakistanis, the afghanis, and the iraquis....like we fooled the kerds....like we fooled the turks....like we are to fool the polish. the georgians, and so many others....we promised a nation protection for our only selfinterest....we cannot protect europe from russia, we just cant....because russia is europe....america is not europe...it is european decendants....but not europe....usa does not want europe to grow, the more it grows....the more it weakens the unites states in all forms and shapes....mainly 95 % of european imports from usa can be imported from russia , and when that happen usa economy is toast....so so many usa companies lobby to keep the relationship between russia and other european countries untrustworthy....i still remember my father telling me politics is playing games if you believe in ethics, right or wrong be a preacher, or a judge....a politician is a self interest agent....so whatever georgian government has done it implies the usa has pushed for it, but did not expect this result....there wont be any silence from other nations, no more, the usa intention has been unveiled since the iraq war, we will have hard times from now on....our friends do not trust us, our business partners do not want to do business with us unless they have to....we have made the islamic nations our enemy, and islam our down fall....russia will capitalize on that as well as a lot of other nations...we have made other international bodies ajoke by ignoring them....yes like one of you says, we opened the invasion box for other nations to follow....god forgive us if he/she/it does exist....because all things arround me point otherwise....

CNN must have a look on the basics of news ethics as I feel sometimes the team goes a bit slanting to one side of the issue under discussion.

The simple question is: Who Started This Pity and Petty War?

Answer: The Georgian side did. And they deserved it so.

CNN piece is more balanced, but still timid in telling the truth! FoxNews and other the likes are propagandistic; just like the lead up to Iraq invasion. We should all reject lying crap, and, by extension, the Gangster Bush Administration. Just look at what they got into doubletalk nonsense on side of Georgia.

We have no business to encroach, insult, and play game with Russia; likewise those eastern euoupean boys(i.e. poland, georgia, ukrain, baltic states,....) Or you will get what you ask for.

Very good article, I agree with a lot of posters. This is one of the best articles I have read since the conflict began. Lat place I expected to see this was on CNN, impressed. I am Russian and I somewhat agree that the reaction was too big. However, it prevented the conflict from going on for month and I am also a bit sceptical on what is reality of the Georgian story as all its coverage from western media is "poor Georgians"

"Having once again to live side by side with an ugly giant threatening the world peace and order, cherishing most obscure regimes around the globe, polluting, spreading arms and weapon technologies, holding the world on the edge of global war for years and years to come."
August 14th, 2008 628 GMT Georg Bach

Georg, this sounds like USA of last 20 years. Russia being economically weak for last 15-20 years, no one stood up against U.S. Mean while U.S. is pumping money into opposition gorups all around the globe to be able to have influence in different regions. Hopefully now a country that does not agree with U.S. can say "no" and have a supporter in the name of Russia.

Gosh how many times we have to say that georgians did not start mobming tskhinvali!!! russia wants all of you to belive in that but that's not the truth. Russias only now how to do propaganda which is sad, because people should learn the truth. FIrst of all tkshinvali is georgian territory and why would russians give russian passports to south osethians that live in georgian territory? Russians hated georgians and always wanted to occupy georgia!!! Let's put back all the refugees from south osethia and abkhazia and see how many people want to be part of georgia!!! God bless georgia!!!

zizu August 14th, 2008 1025 GMT

Firth Time I say Thank American peoples for support Georgia .Russia is very aggressive and “Barbarous” country . Russia never will be normal civil country .Russia was and will be Barbarous it is True

This is a good example of Cold War propaganda that is still widely spread in western media. If you call Russia "Barbarous" then how do you explain American action?

Don't you forget who followed in the steps of the "new Russian army" – hoards of Chechen bandits, bearded militia and unruly Cossacks resulting in killings of civilians and ethnic cleansing,
That is what Europe should be ready for.

Folks, I have researched the Georgia-Russian Dispute with US and Russian news sources. I must tell you honestly, the US Gov, the news agencies and reporting has it ass backwards. The truth is not the truth they all claim they are reporting. America viewpoints are very myopic and immature. It should be no wonder why the US can not get along with most peoples of other nations. It was Iraq, now its doomsday the way Rice and Bush are mouthing off causing distortions and making empty promises backed by your and my money. I am honestly concerned that the US has backed itself into a corner and finding it hard to stand up to the open issues regarding Russia and the Eastern European nations. I am ashamed of Bush and Rice and the US Ambassador to the UN.

Russia's ruling elite carries double standards. When Putin pretends caring about Ossetians remember what he has done to Chechens or Ingushs. Russian indiscriminate bombings of Grozni and other Chechen towns did not leave stone on the stone and how many thousands of civilians died. This is the man who represents hypocrisy. Vlad the Impaler.

I don't agree with the words that are used to describe Abkhazia and Tskhinvali region as breakaway or separatist because the majority of the people of these provinces had been forced out in 1990s by Russian so called “peacekeepers” and now few remaining Georgian settlements are being emptied. Moscow can't claim that these regions favor separation from Georgia when majority of the population is in exile.

Yesterday was the anniversary, then Warsaw Pact forces (1968) occupied Prague to avoid "imperialist expansion directed by USA". I hoped, that it was the last time then Russian Generals had a idea to keep the Eastern Part of Europe under their influence. But it seems, that I was wrong.

small nations (by size of people and size of economy) do not have a say in world politics: these are the big players who speculate with the small nations.

like Poland for instance, signing a missile deal with US – why would Poland want to be a possible nuclear attack target? Maybe because, it does not have any other choice...

The same in Georgia – why should Georgia want to be so hostile with Russia? Georgian economy is not well diversified and still a big portion of the economy relies on Russia (energy supply, well trade not so much after Russian embargo, Geo diaspora earning money and sending back home, etc.). But given Russia's imperialistic aspirations towards Georgia, Georgia "chose" to ally with US to get out of the Russian trap.

But I would say that US is speculating Russia as well – provoking Russia to resort to violence, thus damaging Russia's reputation worldwide and encouraging the west to impose sanctions on Russia (talks have started about banning Russian citizens from entering EU zone for instance)..

I think the military operation in South Osetia was planned long ago, with the purpose of provoking Russia to enter South Osetia.. US was just relying on Russia's traditional approach of solving problems: military power and violence.. Thus, there would be more reasons that USA could use for including Georgia in NATO asap and withdrawing Russian peacekeepers from Georgian territory, replacing by NATO troops.. All this means that US increases its control in the Region, plus it already signed the missile defense deal with Poland..

The longer the Russian troops stay in Georgia, the better for US, the worse for Russia.. either way Georgia is screwed, left with war victims, refugees and damaged infrastructure..

Someone above correctly noted that we common people know nothing about who is starting what and why... we can just fantasize and bring arguments using our brains...

I would not encourage any hostility with the two nations – I would just encourage my friends in Russia to open up their eyes and look out of the box – meaning watch/read/listen to other media sources in addition to Russian media.

It is extremely sad to see that hostility exists between common people as well – I heard this story from my close friend: a guy from Georgia was working in one of the business offices in Moscow (Georgian ethnic background, but citizen of Russia) – and a Russian guy walks up to him saying: "We are going to bomb Tbilisi in half an hour! Good for you! you brought it on to yourselves! what were you thinking about?" – I know it is one story, but there are more..

I would just encourage my friends in Russia to stop hostility against Georgian nation – as a country, we unite many ethnic minotirites (Armenian, Azeri, Russian, Greek, Estonians (apparently), etc.). I am upset with the Russian government, but I do not hate Russian Nation!
The same attitude is needed in Russia as well!

You can hate Saakashvili, believe me he was not having a good time recently having much of the opposition on his shoulders, but please dont spread the hatred on Georgian nation. And I truly hope to get any comment, starting here from a citizen of Russia, affirming that the hostility/hatred does not apply to Georgian nation as a whole.

It is foolish and unintelligent to speak about Gerogian agression. May be somebody do not care for history, but nobody will be able to hide a simple truth. Do not forget that Gerogian authorities were and are acting within Georgian territory, officially recognised by international community and Russia itself. Russia invaded Gergia; this is actually what we have in 21-st century, other talks are just empty speculations.

Let's face it – there is a series of facts not disputed by any of the sides in the conflict:

1. South Ossetia witnessed a bloody standoff with Georgia back in the 90-ies. Georgian-Ossetian clashes date back centuries and are unlikely to ever be forgotten by either Georgians or Ossetians in an area with deep rural ethnic traditions of the Caucasus. Russia has played a peaceful role in settling that conflict, actually stopping bloodshed and introducing a truce and eventually a fragile peace. This was long before the US administration learned where Georgia was on the map. Letting this conflict (and the Abkhaz one) continue would immediately trigger areas of instability in other Caucasian regions, i.e. Nagorny Karabakh.

2. Over the years following the introduction of peacekeeping forces Georgia has done nothing to persuade Ossetians that they had nothing to fear if they stayed part of the country. Heavy rethoric against "separatists", lack of friendly economic policy would keep any South Ossetian miles away from agreeing to go back under Georgian rule. OK, Georgia itself had a pretty tough time having been hit hardest in an economic sense, but try to compare the per capita GDP in South Ossetia and Georgia – you get a difference of about 9 times. It was obvious Georgia would not even try to help South Ossetians out of their misery.

3. At the same time Russia (mind you North Ossetia is part of the Russian Federation) has maintained aid and support to South Ossetia. Yes, the issuance of Russian passports to South Ossetians created a pretext to treat them as Russian citizens for politicians, BUT it also gave South Ossetians a chance to earn a living in Russia, sell their produce in Russia and maintain a living in an area otherwise cordoned off.

4. OK, the self-proclaimed South Ossetian administration is not up to standards. Their methods of rule are not democratic. But at the same time Georgia has not been able to influence or control the region AT ALL over the last years. Let's face it, Tbilisi's control over Georgia was nil, and their chance of controlling it would mean eradicating most of the locals.

5. And now we come to the conflict. Just the facts:

- Saakashvili moved forces in first.
- He claimed it was an police operation to restore constitutional order, but his "police" rolled in in tanks and started by shelling civillians and peacekeeping forces of Russia.
- Russia had lost dozens of soldiers in the very first day of fighting.

So what happens then? Russia's Army is still 80-ies style at best. This is common knowledge. They can do little but use brute force if provoked. Any action by the Russian militray is bound to be painful as there is little of the fancy high-tech warfare NATO countries have. The generals make a very straightforward judgement – if Saakashvili's forces reach the tunnel passages on the border of Russia, the only military option left would be using planes or backing off. So they move in full scale.

3 reasons for the defensive – a) Russian solgiers getting slaughtered, b) Russian "citizens" under extreme danger of eradication c) a very short time slot to operate. NOW THINK WHAT WOULD YOU DO?

6. And finally the current status – a) there is no force in the region apart from the Russian army right now which can guarantee any sort of truce and cease fire. To the best of my knowledge there has so far been no actual move by anyone (NATO, USA, Martians, you name 'em) to assemble a peacekeeping task force in the area, as this would mean admitting that South Ossetians are in fact AT RISK from Georgia; b) there is NO WAY a single Ossetian (or Abkhazi for that matter) would want to remain under Georgian rule after an open act of war from Mr. Saakashvili. So, where's any realistic discussion on the future of the regions? Who wants to take the blame for ethnic fighting if Russia pulls out tomorrow or if Georgians are allowed to administer the regions?

So this is what the Russians are trying to say – we did what we saw was right to stop the fighting, we did it quickly and effectively (the fighting's stopped), and we are not vacating the premises until you guys suggest a reasonable and non-biased way the whole mess is going to be solved.

The national council of Abkhazian Republic is just gathering now to declare their independence. Question to analysts and commentators: Do you think, that one point of the 6 point plan, that was approved by NATO has now solution?

I find it interesting that there are so many comments supporting Russia and those writing it use American names. But, their grammar suggests that this is a second language to them. I have seen this on all sorts of News comment boards. It is obvious to most Americans that this is Russian propaganda supported by Russia. Please don't insult our intelligence.

How can You Judge Russia and Ossetia if You See and have access to only One side of that conflict?
You see only US TV and Media!
BUT they LIE and protect only their gov's asses and interests in georgian ubnormal and unhuman leader because they made a bid on him.
They Totally blocked Any other world opinions.
So when people see only that Lie info all over again – they're for sure can't think Clear and Right – they think and eat what they got
from Media and Politics etc...
Nobody think about nightly killed ossetians. – But You?
Nobody want to know that not Russians but Svilli broked his peace promisses and ordered a night civilians Bombing!
BTW – it was at Olimpic openings night in hope to blitzcreig war win...
And Russians start protect deadly attacked civilians and peacekeepers ONLY after 16 hours after Sakhashvilli ordered " Kill them all !"

Would You like to fill bombs, bullets, Grads, mines and snipers at Your own Family 16 hours long before someone help You? Where were US
EU helps???
And don't You ask a God to save Your Mom, Dad and kids from georgian troops armed by US etc...?

So Please don't Judge if You listen only One side of any conflict(especially if that Side is Money/Miltary/Politicaly interested in...)

I want to thank all the people from the US, the UK or from wherever, who supports and understands Russian side. Thanks to those journalists who refused to stick to US government's established position and who aimed to report unbiassed information. I am from Russia, but I can't call myself patriotic at all. Yes, Russia can obviousely be a topic of numerous debates. Still in this situation, Russian government's actions are justified and targeted exceptionally on peacekeeping. Thanks to those who see that and don´t take into consideration evidently deceitful information given by some media and especially by georgian government. You need to distinguish where is lie and where is objective truth based on facts. Don't let anybody fool you. Stay objective. Towards all sides of the conflict.

"It's vast military strength"? Russia deployed a force that was less than half the size of the Georgian army. The Georgians started running while most of the Russian troops were still in-route. The vast majority of Russian soldiers deployed to Georgia never got a chance to fire a single shot.

"To crush a neighbor .. mostly because Georgia wants to join the EU and NATO." Are you on some kind of drug? Russian peacekeepers were stationed in the region since 1992. That's sixteen years of relative calm. But finally the Georgians decided to force the issue by killing hundreds of civilians in their sleep.

Russia launched its military action in response to the attack by the Georgian army against Russian peacekeepers in South Ossetia. It's as simple as that: no chess games, no evil Kremlin masterplans. Russia did what any other Western nation would have done in the same situation. Whatever other reasons you wish to pile up on top are nothing but your fantasies.

lili said, " we want the unity of our country and we want our territories back we lived as one for centuries and if Russia won’t interfere we will continue our relations and life as one peaceful nation"

You forgot to mention (as all Georgians posting here do) whether that dream of yours includes NATO’s missile bases on your soil and , consequently, on the Russian border. This makes all the difference.

CNN.com 08/21/08:

"Russian forces took five U.S. Marine Humvees from the western Georgia port of Poti on Tuesday, three Pentagon officials with knowledge of the incident told CNN on Wednesday."

Now how are we going to get our humvees back ?!?

South Ossetia has always been part of Georgia
the russians granted passports and citizen rights to several Ossetians and with that came their "protection" this happened early 90s. Do not be fooled by BS propaganda from the Russians they are using the ossetians to lay claim that Georgia will always be under their thumb.

It was not the Ossetians who started attacking Georgians it was Russian Sleeper cells anyone who doesn't buy this is an obvious moron. this isnt a conspiracy its simple Russian style politics anyone else here who was born in the former U.S.S.R can vouch for that.

on top of that how dare anyone think that Georgia not allowing the ossetians to be seperate is in the wrong. I want to see what will happen if New York State, or Texas decide one day to say "hey we want soverign rule".

And please do not compare the russians to the americans, its foolishness. the Americans plan was one where they would bring down Iraq and the other mid-east crisis hoping that the governments installed there will be loyal to them. The Russians don't want loyalty they want sovereignty. also important to note that Russians invade with such a lack of empathy that unlike the americans they will never aid the people who are suffering, they will never go around a village to get to their destination they will go through it!

When will American citizens realize the world isn't as simple as your T.V makes it seem?

This article is certainly more interesting than those "Georgian war propaganda leaflets" that we had to read on CNN through the course of the actual conflict and fighting. It is not surprising though that it is not on a main page. The truth about the conflict is still hidden from the American people. This again is not something terribly new. You remember what we were told when the United States attacked Iraq, we were told about WMD, terrorists and etc. Later on it all turned to be only lie and the war propaganda. The same story here, all these articles, posted on CNN when the actual conflict was still going on, were full of lies and distortions in favor of our "friend" Georgia and Saakashvili. Now hopefully the truth if not all at least partially will start to get into our media.

Now a few comments on some author's phrases:

"Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov seems now to be suggesting that the populations of the two disputed territories should be involved in that decision."
Is it not a democratic suggestion that we should all support? Is it not what we just talked about in regards of Kosovo?

"...his Russian counterpart Dimitry Medvedev to warn: “We recognize the sovereignty of Georgia … but this does not mean that a sovereign state should have the possibility to do what it wants.”
Does somebody disagree with it? Is it not the same that we talked about Sadam Hussein, Sudanese government in Darfur and etc. Let's be consistent!

"That has not stopped Russia using its vast military strength to crush a neighbor of whom it disapproves, mostly because Georgia wants to join the EU and NATO."
This is just nonsense that western media like to repeat so many times. Following this logic Russia had to already attack Baltic states which joined NATO and EC awhile ago, bit it did not. The point that Russia makes is that Georgia has no clear borders due to unresolved conflicts with S.Ossetia and Abkhazia and to accept such country will be very unwise since Georgian conflicts will become NATO’s conflicts after such acceptance. After this war it became much clearer for the world community that Georgia is governed by genocidal regime of Saakashvili and acceptance of Georgia into Nato today will be great embarrassment for the organizations.

The irony is that for the West it will be much better if Russia really went on and changed regime in Tbilisi. Unfortunately, it did not, since it is a western doctrine and not Russian. Consequently, we will have to get rid of Saakashvili by ourselves and than sooner than better for all sides involved.

ADDITIONAL INFORMATION FOR YOUR CONSIDERATION

Dear All:

Tskhinvali was first chronicled by Georgian sources in 1398 as a village in Kartli (central Georgia) though a later account credits the 3rd century AD Georgian king Asphagur of Iberia with its foundation as a fortress. By the early 18th century, Tskhinvali was a small "royal town" populated chiefly by monastic serfs. Tskhinvali was annexed to Imperial Russia with the rest of eastern Georgia in 1801. Located on a trade route which linked North Caucasus to Tbilisi and Gori, Tskhinvali gradually developed into a commercial town with a mixed Jewish, Georgian, Armenian and Ossetian population. In the 1910s, its censused population was 5,033 with 42.3% Jews, 33% Georgians, 13.4% Armenians and 11% Ossetians.

The town saw clashes between Georgian People's Guard and pro-Bolshevik Ossetian peasants during the 1918-20 period, when Georgia enjoyed brief independence from Russia. Soviet rule was established by the invading Red Army in March 1921, and a year later, in 1922, Tskhinvali was made a capital of the South Ossetian Autonomous Oblast within the Georgian SSR. Subsequently, the town became largely Ossetian due to intense urbanization and Soviet Korenizatsiya ("nativization") policy which induced an inflow of the Ossetians from the nearby rural areas and North Caucasus into Tskhinvali.

The city contains several monuments of medieval Georgian architecture, with the Kavti Church of St. George being the oldest one dating back to the 8th-10th centuries, as well as Soviet time buildings.

As US armed and trained Gergian military forces, now it would do anything possible to cover and play down the fact that Saakashvili attacked Tskhinvaly with heavy artillery at night and killed hundreds of civilians. Russia protected them. And the easiest way is to blame Russian side in everything. Sound very familiar. Bad, bad Russians....

The Russians have been giving arms to the separatist and string up trouble in Georgia for the last two years and more. Hitler did the same shit in 39 to Poland then blamed the Poles fore the Invasion. History repeating.
We should arm the Georgians and help them kick the Russians out just like in Afghanistan.
Vladimir Putin Is a Dictator and Russia is moving in a very dangerous direction.

Just see who Putin he starts alinig with in the next six months.

You know the problem with this conflict and this world is this: You all have someone to blame, oh the west did it oh the bear is back. Get the hell over it people. You can squabble about this all you want but the fact is 99% of it we dont even know. I've seen conflicting issues from both sides and it all doesn't add up from both sides. Look you can all go back to the past and say yeah this is because of kosovo or this is because of what happened from the cold war. Well the fact is the west and the east both try to do there best everyone has concerns about people developing bombs and such. Look the only way for people to resolve this is to get over it. See this is what modern computer age stuff has caused, it's caused blogging and people going back and forth on who is right and who is wrong when really all that matters is that everyone is too self involved to get along. I mean will the world ever get along or will it always be the stupid blame game.

Protecting Russian Citizens? How much Russia cares about its citizens we have seen in Chechnya where the whole region was sealed off from outside world and tens of thousands of civilians were exterminated with indiscriminate bombings. One of the reasons Russia is delaying troop withdrawal from Georgia is to cover up war crimes committed in occupied areas. They should get out and give access to media and humanitarian organizations as soon as possible.

Russia, don't be bling! You got Putin allready you will get more if you will not open your eyes. As I love all human beings I stand for democracy in Russia:)))

An unbiased article which gives somewhat decent explanation of the Russia-Georgia conflict. Well written, but not many CNN articles about this actually reveals what happened in South Ossetia.
Just looking at what happened in Tshinvali, Georgians provoked Russian peacekeepers to pull Georgian troops back into the country. Using this, Saakashvili (being an asshole which he always was) used it to get into NATO, attract the West into this conflict, and basically trying to achieve his ambitions. Of course, he attracted lots of attention. Unfortunately, the West, especially USA doesnt see what Russia was trying to fight. They arent invading, they are actually helping...

..this might be a beginning of Cold War again. However, the West will be in minority if Russia unites with China. Hopefully, the cruelity of politics and misunderstandings will find a way to a logical end!

The two real problems here and now are that Mr. Bush seems to think that he can say things like "you must" to Russia, and that Mr. Saakashvili seems to think that he is Mr. Bush.

Dear Mr Toma

There is democracy in russia open ur eyes and u will see it. Putin and Medvedev are loved more than any bush or any us president

Nataly – you mention that Russia is actually helping ... very vague... Do you mean helping to feed Russian army with looted stuff from all over Georgia?

Russia had no right to invade the country, no internatioal treaty allows what Russia did in Georgia, even when they claim that Russia came to protect Russian Peace Keepers (which by the way are supposed to be CIS peace keepers) and Russian Citizens. Even then, Russia did not have any right to bomb various territories in Georgia and starting robbing different places.

I am just amazed that you dare to call this "helping"

I am Georgian and I know only one thing for sure. We have refugees from Apkhazia and Osetia. Let them return on their land and then let these population decide how to live – within or apart from Georgia. The fact is that people who is now requiring independence are people who were instructionally settled on the historical territory of Georgia many years ago and this was inspired by Russia in order to escalate this conflict after decades and win new areas of its influence with the help of people like Osetians and Apkhazs. Georgia is hosting many other nations within its boundaries. If each of these nations started requseting independence and claiming that this is their territory what would happen? there would be no Georgia at all – and this would be response for the hospitality Georgia showed to these nations. Now I understand it was an incorrect policy from Georgian side to let all these people onto its territory.

Citizen of Georgia,

I'jist wondering, whether the the government of the country has legal rights to kill those civilians who don't want to belong to that country. And, btw, even BBC now admitted that it wasn't the Russians looting. From what i've read it is the georgians themselves and ossetians (the civilians, saying: you did that to my home, i'll do that to yours...

I don’t trust Russian state controlled media when it spreads informations about so called ethnic conflicts in Georgia. This is just excuse to invade another country. Read publications about how Putin’s agents masterminded explosions of residential buildings in Moscow to create a pretext for Chechnya invasion. This is the same thing Nazis did in Germany in 1930s.

http://www.tjetjenien.dk/baggrund/bombs.html

2 Ragnar
reading about bombing was pretty interesting. Living in an apartment block iin Moscow I am kind of keenly interested in the subject :)

Imagine a british military caught by IRA militants and speakng to a camera saying it was british intelligence services who planned the bombing of public buildings in London.

Imagine an american captured by islamic militants in Iraq saying that it he knows it for sure was CIA (jointly with FBI) who planned the 09/11. I guess he would also say that he is treated well by his captors.

it's not funny. you are trying to find one reason for all bad things that happened. the excuse for second invasion to Chechnya was not really the explosions but the islamic radicals' raid from Chechnya to Daghestan. Or did the russians planned the raid as well? Or did they plan the Georgian attack on Tskhinvali? What is the next thing russians are planning? Democrats winning the presidential campaign?, I guess. 50 years ago you could be declared a public enemy and a communist agent for not being a loyal republican, in the US, or same thing (vice versa) you could be public enemy to soviet people and an american agent if you just say something that was not completely in line with Stalin's propaganda. Too simple and not too funny.
Do not be blinded. Try to see the bigger picture. If Russians acknowledged the independence of S.Ossetia – to me that only means that U.S. secretly consented to this. It US intervened to Iraq and Afghanistan – that only meant that Russians consented to this secretly which they later repeated publicly. The pie is divided. War is over.

Can CNN please tell the public the truth who fired first and do not mislead general public?

Using GRAD launchers against a sleeping city is as barbaric as using a chemical weapon. That weapon was created for bombarding an approximate AREA and not a designated target. So I totally believe there were more than 2000 victims. They have a word for it, and the word is "Genocide".

Russia should have recognized Chechnya first instead of sealing it off from outside world and exterminating its population with indiscriminate bombings.

To Ragnar

Why the US does not recognize Osama bin Laden and Al Qaeda instead of sealing them off from outside world and exterminating the population of Iraq and Afghanistan with indiscriminate bombings?

By the way, the guys who ruled Chechnya at the time in question were sponsored by Osama bin Laden and were part of Al Qaeda as well. During the years of de-facto independence then Chechen leaders were kidnapping, torturing, and killing the people of Chechnya, Russia and many European countries for no particular reason but for money. Beheading was one of the most conventional things. I still can’t forget the pictures of the heads of those poor bastards from a telecom company from the UK who were kidnapped in Chechnya and beheaded because the company refused to pay for them. The terror was indescribable everywhere across the country and no one could be safe. So the reason why the Chechens live now with Russia is that most of Chechens think it's best for them, otherwise the war would still continue, Chechen worriers are the best I’ve ever seen and Russia failed to defeat them in the first Chechen war.

i am from Georgia and i live near Asetia and i say that i am very very tired of my countrys all presidents and there politic. i start my life about five time and still everything going like it was 10 years ago! very bad. here in georgia everyone seats on there suitcases for going in abroad like me too, beacause we all are tired of this politics and stupit politicans like in russion but what is more bad nobody welcome us and we are like in warprisons( i meane people like me not with big money, but stronger in life) . for me it is no problems with russions i have russion friend and i was in comlict places because i was in militery for a long time

thank you