you are liers!! 3% of the South Osetian killed in one night while you kept silent, Russians moved to defend the small nation and you are now in the team with new Hitler- Mihail Saakashvili!! Keep Brainwashing your people, they more conserned with consumption and with huge recession in US, they dont care about your reports- you enourmously stupid!!!

Russia's history shows that their intent was expansionism since, what, 1300's? The Soviet Union used some sort of crazy excuse to invade Afghanistan which they intended to control. Now they say that Georgia attacked Ossetians (which Russia gave passports to) because South Ossetians want to be part of Russia and not of Georgia. Hmmm. What would have Stalin done in a case like this? (kill every Ossetian). I try to understand things by trying to figure out where the truth lies; Russia will lie to expand it's territory. Georgia will lie to keep it's territory intact. So, where is the truth? Russia did not respect an independent state concerned about the fate of it's territory. Isn't that what Russia did in Chechnya? Blow it up so Russia would not loose that territory? Sounds to me like Georgia tried to assert control over it's land and Russia used this as an excuse to "control" Georgia.

Saakashvili lies about Russian break the cease fire, he expect American troops to accomplish disemboweling the SO people.

How can America condemn Russia? George Bush lied to the American people in order to justify the destruction of Iraq. Find one Iraqi who will honestly admit they are better off today than before America destroyed their country. I am embarassed to be an American citizen.

Russia reacted proportionately to attacks on their citizens with Russian passports in Ossetia. The issues in Ossetia have a history of almost one hundred years. George Bush and the USA puppet president of Georgia got what they deserve. Threaten to surround a proud and great people with missiles and then go awaken a sleeping bear by provoking him... countries led by morons deserve what they get. George Bush is the worst president ever in America by far. What can the moron, Hilter want-to-be, really do to Russia.

What a disgrace to a once great country... thank goodness France stepped in to lead the way to peace. We will celebrate the end of the George Bush debacle. Why hasn't he been impeached for his lies.

South Osetia lost in the morning of 08.08.2008 more than 1500 population only in one city – Tshinvali, under massive bomb attack from Georgia (it was in 00:15, all people slept). Nobody was interesting in this action till Russian stopped it.

Who did begin it and why – it is not easy quuestion for "democratic" USA...

South Osetia has about 70000 population.
Try to imagine that USA lost today morning lost 3 million population (equal 1500 lost in South Osetia)... What will your reaction Michael West?

To start off, I believe that all can/should agree that it is never only one side's fault. Both countries are at fault for the lives lost in this conflict. But reviewing the media network over the past few days, since the beginning of the conflict, I have noticed a few things. The western media never reported on the actions of the Georgian government on behalf of the genocide which took place in South Ossetia. I also noticed that the western media (prefers to) uses only one side of the story. The reason why Russia really attacked was not once mentioned. And if it was, it was some somewhere deep in some article in three words some thousands of pages away from the front page of western media sources. Being a U.S. citizen, it makes me sad to see the U.S. government and media act this way. It's a shame that the American public is fed a bunch of lies. I am positive that if the truth was shared there would be a lot more support for the Russian people. Yet the public has no choice but only to see Russia as an aggressor. I urge everyone to look into the reality of what is happening. There are already hundreds of YouTube videos which Georgian citizens have shared. Some show Georgian troops raiding TV stations which were not showing what the government wanted. Others are videos of Georgian troops attacking the very innocent civilians which the western media said the Russian's attacked. I beg that everyone strive for honesty. When honesty is instilled so will peace be!

Michael, is the way to claim your land back to first go in and kill 1600 innocent civilians and on top of that, a few peacekeepers? Russia has a good reason for acting the way it did. You, unfortunately, are a victim of the media's misinformation (lies).

So Georgie finally woke up. Where's he been all these days? Oh, I remember - in Bejing enjoying the Olympics and issuing ineffectual statements. My question is: why is there not a carrier battle group in or steaming toward the Black Sea. If he can't back up his words with a show of force, they will be ignored.

Human Rights Watch reported from S. Ossetia that they confirmed under 100 wounded and estimated 30 killed. Russians deliberately lied about thousands of civilians and genocide.

REMEMBER SERBIA? FIRST CROATIA THEN BOSNIA, THEN KOSOVO, THEN MONTNEGRO, ALL IN THE NAME OF PROTECTING THE SERB MINIORITY. THE PLAYBOOK CAME FROM PUTIN AND THE KGB. REMEMBER?????

Georgian army make a genocide for osetian. Russia stop it. What a questions?

In 1992 right after the decay of the USSR Georgian wild self-organized troops (mkhedriony) tried to make the mass killing of Ossetians and Abkhazians. The latter had to respond to survive. They were able to throw away the Georgian gangs. Both parties finally agreed that Russia will keep them from clashing in future. Doesn't the Georgian behavior remind the similar case? Serbians tried to make the Great Serbia with the weapon and recieved the total decay of their state? Now Georgia moved the same wrong way. Repeated massacre in Ossetia will lead just to separation in the best case. Thanks to Russians that stopped the invasion or the number of killed Ossetians would exceed the currend 3000.

The only intent of Russia is to sleep quiet. Caucuses are extremely complicated region. It is populated by about one hundred nations speaking different languages, not too civilized, and having centuries of blood confrontation behind. The power is the only thing that they do respect. The last Russian’s power shut down result in several dozens bloody conflicts, if you remember. Everybody fought everybody. These are some of them: Armenia – Azerbaijan, Georgia – South Ossetia, Georgia – Abkhazia, Chechnya, Dagestan etc. For some reason Georgians for last hundred years wanted to do away with Abkhazians. If Russia let them to do that, the next day all other Caucuses peoples will understand that IT IS POSSIBLE and the war will begin all over Caucuses.
The best solution is to make the wall along the Caucuses border. But it is impossible. Russia is not the Great Britain. It is not an island. So we have to solve our border problems somehow, even involving power not for the sake of expansion but just to prevent great chaos.

Michael, stop foolin' yourself. I see you know nothing about the history.
Georgians started to kill civilians in S.Ossetia at 080808. Many launchers were used. They bombed houses, hospitals, schools. They killed ossetian children and then burn their bodies. They shoot people, who tried to save their lives in basements.
Why they started this war? Do you realy think Saakashvili can do it without US and Bush's permission?
It's a pity, you don't know the real truth just because the CNN doesn't want you to know. I see the american "democracy" is wery close to Soviet Union. When you know what they want you to know.
Keep surfing the net. You can find more information.

There is no question: Abkazia and South Ossetia do not belong to Georgia. Both enclaves belong to Russia.
Why pushing Kosovo for independence and not giving same treatment to people who have the very same rights, and deserve the indipendence or eventually joining who they want?
By the way, ethnically speaking, they are Russians, not Georgians.
Is is maybe because of the oil pipes "circumnavigating" Russia? If this is the point, then Russian army was right to destroy, regretfully only in part, the relevant infrastructure.
In any case Americans should always remember what they did to the native Americans and the blacks, before lecturing others.

Saakashvili will be remembered as one of the most stupid presidents of 21st century. You cannot be enemies with a giant and militarily powerful neighbour like russia. If Russia were to install their defence systems in cuba, canada, mexico and japan literally surrounding America would America tolerate it. America is trying to corner Russia and in the process small countries by georgia are getting bombed. I think its foolish for America to get involved in another war and that too with Russia. We are economically not doing well and now we have to help Georgia in reconstruction efforts. How much more foolish can we americans get we need this guy and Mcain out.

It's look like we (Russians) downed our sole ally at Kavkaz. All other North Kavkaz peoples are our opponents (and always were our opponents). First Kavkaz war begun in 1830-th after accession Geargia to Russian empire. New ally must had a tight connection with metropoly, but North Kavkaz Highlanders were between us. We and Geargians had common unterests, common faith, common cultural stereotype and had no conflict in roots. Moslem Highlanders (Ossethians, Chechens, Kabardians etc) were (and are) primordial enemies for Georgians. Russians now are worst than even Highlanders because they will be treated in Geargia as traitors. I'm afraid they never to forget it. In days to come when North Kavkaz peoples became a real nation in political extent and it will be impossible to bind them in Russia state without Geargia as a friend.

I think we need to get Bush out of office before we are in a third war we can not afford and have no reason being in.

Michael,try to read other news besides CNN.Don't you see it is one-sided?
Do facts mean anything to you?
Russia doesn't need Georgian territory.What's the point for that?
USA need it because of the strategic oil pipeline.
Journalism should be independent and CNN failed this statement.
It's obviously that this channel is paid by who is interested in Georgia.
Russia "invaded" Georgia 24 hour later (on August,8th) than Tshinvali(capital of Osetia) was destroyed to the ground by Georgian "democratic" forces(on August,7th). 1,600 civilians and 15 peacekeepers were killed at that time...
Osetians never were Georgians-it's a different nation with different history. Try to find any difference between Kosovo and Osetia-I do not see it....So,what's the problem with Osetians to get their independence?
It's sad that most Americans wouldn't do anything to find out where the truth is... That's why CNN is thriving...

The old guard have a saying,"Once a KGB, always a KGB." Putin has shown his country's true state of being. He has resurrected memories of Stalin and Lenin and 70+ years of communist dictators. Can he ever be trusted?

This should be another lesson to countries that listen to the U.S. Don't go start a war if you can't defend yourself and/or your own country. Don't go around tauting other countries hoping that the U.S. will come bail you out, because the U.S. will leave you you or your country to be slaughter. The U.S. is nothing more than all bark like an irritating little dog and no bite. The people of Geogia now suffers for their leader's mistake.

Michael West, You must be an American. Bush and your government if you are American attacked an innocent country and have been bombing and killing the people of that country for over five years now and the reason for that is so that they can have control over the oil fields there. Remember no weapons of mass distruction and lets not forget who dropped those nukes on Japan killing thousands of innocent women and children. Why is it when any country takes action to protect thier territory they are called terrorist but America or Isreal can attack any country they feel like, and then call them terrorist. America is a joke any more and I`m really wondering who are the real terrorists.

Five countries who know what it is to feel Russian aggression>>> Well, we did participate in several divisions of Poland and we have to admit that. This can possibly include Lithuinia as it used to be part of Poland. But what aggression is meant when speaking of Latvia, Estonia and Ukraine? Our toops entered these countries, but it has always been by permission or, in respect of Ukraine by request, of thier goverments.

I have to say CNN is reporting very one sided: the Russians are the bad guys while the Georgians are the good ones. Cold War rhetoric and close to propaganda! Remember that the Georgians attacked South Ossetia first, destroying it's capital and murdering hundreds (even close to 2000) of innocent civilians while everyone was watching the Olympics. The Georgian president willfully committed a heinous crime. Russia HAD to stop this attack and drive the Georgians back. And yes, they acted very forcefully (and often too much) but compare their acts to the US when they bombed Serbs/Afghanis/Iraqis. A lot of people died because of this. The US has no right to lecture Russia because of their illegal war in Iraq. So, both George and Russia are to blame for this war, while the US indirectly contributed to it by propping up the fanatic hothead Shakaasvilli.

Everything is much simpler. Georgia has killed 2000 people overnight, including Russian peacekeepers under UN mandate. Russia stepped in to protect the innocent and destroyed the aggressor. Now the Russian troops are pulling back. Of course, as a result some civilians have died. Georgian leadership under the banners of democracy and freedom killed its own citizens and should be tried in war tribunal. Georgia's government cannot be allowed to portray itself as a free and democratic country as a result of what it has done. Russia has enough territory and problems of its own to annex part of Georgia. Russia has demonstrated itself as an exemplary citizen of the world.

You have no idea about what is really happening in this region. It is not the war of Georgia vs. Ossetia or vs. Russia. It is the war of the USA and its satellites vs. Russia. The USA supported Georgia with armament, it trained its soldiers, gave money for buying new weapons (georgian military budget increased 30 times (!) for the last few years). Moreover when Saakashvili started this war there were a lot of american consultants in Tbilisi. Thus it is no wonder now that Bush supports Saakashvili and tries to represent the whole situation as if it is not Georgia who attacked sleeping Tskhinvali and killed 2000 civil people including women and children but Russia who wanted to intervene Georgia and overthrow Saakashvili and the like. I guess the USA and the whole western society would be pleased if Saakashvili razed South Ossetia and Abhazia (he planned the same operation against Abhazia too) to the ground. In any case it would blame Russia – either for transferring troops to S. Ossetia to save people from georgian murderers or for taking no action (it would be a good pretext to make us bases in this region). Because the war of the USA against Russia has never ended.

to cnn editors: it would be wonderful if you publish this point of view (that of course contradicts to yours) but to tell the truth I don't even hope for this since your "democracy" is extremely selective: you always make shut up those who don't disagree with you.

best regards.

The histeria by Saakashvilly has 2 aims:
1) he came to power by promising Georgians 'to bring the rebels back'. He fogot to ask Osetians if they want to be under his rule. To get elected again he had to get into the fight.
2) Economic interests bring Europe and Russia together. But interest of Saakashvilly to position himself as "a frontman of free Europe" to get economic and military aid. If not the fight who would be intersted in helping him – he spends 9% of GDP on military

Europeans has to stop this madness. Do not let him to provoke the Russians and you will see the whole region will be safer.

'As of 5 a.m. this morning our troops are returning fire' marked the opening of wwII. These words were uttered by Hitler on Reichsradio and few people expected the ensuing human tragedy at that time.
Let good will, wisdom and faith in the best of humanity prevail in this Georgia crisis.

I FIND IT DIFFICULT TO BELIEVE THAT GEORGIA WOULD HAVE ATTEMPTED AN ARMED INCURSION INTO AN AREA THAT RUSSIAN PEACEKEEPERS OCCUPIED WITHOUT FIRST TALKING TO WASHINGTON.
NO MATTER RUSSIANS LONG TERM PLANS , I BELIEVE THERE DEFENSE OF THEIR PEACEKEEPERS WAS JUSTIFIED AND GEORGIA INSTIGATED THE RESPONSE , HEAVY HANDED AS IT WAS. JUST LOOK AT OUR RESONSE TO VIOLENCE IN IRAQ, I.E. THE SURGE.
I BELIEVE WASHINGTON OK'D THE INITIAL MOVE BY GEORGIA, AND THEY DID IT FOR TOTALLY POLITICAL GAIN.
JOHN MCCAIN AND GEORGE BUSH WOULD START A WAR TO WIN AN ELECTION.

In reality it is not so much "trying to control" its neighbors as it is a matter of trying to control the oil flowing through Georgia... two major pipelines, one for oil and one for natural gas... damaged by russian bombing, but not to the extent to put them out of commission totally... and the russian ambassadors comments stating "we are not attacking the oil supplies, however such an accident would be a bad thing for an ecological distaer to happen in georgia". The oil traveling through Georgia provides them income, not from russia, so they can be free, russia has told georgia in the past that the motherland is the only export market they can have... but exports elsewhere give georgia income not from russia.... so "the motherland" is being left out of her childrens lives and she is not happy....no mother wants to loose her children, and russia will go to any means to stop it, as she has done in the past, the EU needs to step up and do something or we will see another policy of appeasement like we saw from the english towards hitler which allowed world war 2 to happen.... when is europe going to wise up and not expect america to police the problems in their own backyard?

In 1300s Russia was under mongolian occupation. And overthrew it only a century and a half later. In fact it has started its expansion in early 18th century.
Since you mention Stalin, you should also know that this story goes back to his days. He was half osetian half georgian, you know, and when he came to power it was him who united Osetia, Abkhazia and Georgia into one soviet republic – they were different states at thet moment. So it was personal, and, by the way, he has managed to do it without "killing all the osetians".
As for the reasons behind the conflict – they have nothing to do with keeping control of Georgian territory or expanding Russian one. After all Osetian land has no perticular value – there is no oil or any other resource. The main reason behind the story for Russia is fight with US over the influence in central asia and, particularly, Caspian sea region. And since Russia managed to beat practically a US vassal state and get away with it – she clearly won this one. The reason behind Georgian attack on Osetia is directly connected to US president elections. The point was to show the world brutal and barbaric Russia and using the mass media make it as brutal and barbaric as was described by McCain. So now McCain is the i-told-you guy and Obama, who claimed that Russia can be quite sane and should be dealt with diplomatically, will be reminded of this on every debates henceforth.

Georgian president began this war because he would win in any case. If Russians would have not responded he would get a control over Osetia. Otherwise, he would get supports in the western mass media. This was not a Russian war, but Russians loose an information war. That is it.

Look, Micheal West let me educate you. See I'm assuming that you voted for our idiot president – Bush. Russia is a democratic country as well. Did you know that? The Georgian president, Mr Saaskavili, made a mayor mistake. Let's us evaluate both sides. He ordered troops to enter South Ossetia and his troops were ordered to killed Russian citizens. According to the Russian's and the American's constitutions, both leaders have the duty to protect their citizens from attack throughout the world. Our gov't has to protect us all the time Micheal.The Russians are simply doing their constitutional duties. If the Russsians want to be assholes, they could have fabricated claims that Georgia is seeking WMD's. Remenber these very abbreviations. Micheal Bush has changed the world for the worst. He he has done a lot more damage tahn 9/11. All you can do Micheal is prey that Mc Cain does not get elected and continues this "Texas cowboy foreign policy". I trust that Obama can restore world order. I know that as an American, you are a good person. We just want someone to transfer that love to the rest of the world. Trust me it will make a hell of a difference Vote Obama to save America.

Georgia made a big mistake of attacking South Ossetia and killing over 1000 people overnight. What do they expect the Russian to do, just sit down and watch those butchered. Georgian President Saakashvili right from begin want to take over South Ossetia with force and it has backfired. He keeps on talking aboyt about democracy, but is accepting South Ossetia democratic voting of not joining Georgia. That is democracy. although the Russian have overdone it, but I am sure they want to sure that crazy Saakashvili will not be in a position of doing that again.

Michal West needs a history lesson on Georgia and South Osetia to understand and discuss on this matter. How would Michal call an invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq by the US(bringing light to those in dark)? Stalin was from Georgia and that is why those two regions were part of Georgia, Stalin added to Georgia. People of South Osetia have russian passports because after calapse of Soviet Union, Russia with the agreement of other republics made the law by which all citizen of former Soviet Union could take russian passports and live at that republic without any problems. Georgia agreed too but year later started to force all osetians from their land.
Russia attacked Georgia after Georgia attacked South Osetia. Russia has all rights to protect its citizens. I understand why US mad, its little projest, georgian president and his attack on South Osetia, went a little wrong. But that's what happen when you put your money on worthless horse.

PUTIN (THE KGB GUY), AND HIS RUSSIAN PUPPETT PRESIDENT SAID THEY ARE NOT GOING TO TAKE OVER GEORGIA.....SOUNDS LIKE WHAT HITLER SAID BEFORE WWII AS HE MARCHED ON CAPITAL AFTER CAPITAL...YOU CANNOT TAKE THE WORD OF A RUSSIAN LEADER.....PUT THE US MILITARY ON DEFCON 1....STOP ALL RUSSIAN VISA TO THE US AND RECALL THE US AMBASSADOR....SEIZE ALL RUSSIAN BANK ACCOUNTS IN THE US AND STOP ALL TRADING AND COMMMERCIAL FLIGHTS TO AND FROM RUSSIA AND FROM TO THE US......DEPLOY US MARINES TO PROTECT THE EMBASSY IN GEORGIA AND USAF AIRCRAFT TO FLY OVER IT 24 HOURS A DAY....THE RUSSIAN WANT THE OIL PIPELINE IN GEORGIA AND CONTROL IT...THAT IS THERE ULTIMATE GOAL....IF WE DO NOT MAKE A STAND HERE THEY WILL CONTINUE ON TO THE NEXT CAPITAL JUST LIKE HITLER....SAME OLD SOVIET UNION BUT IT IS NOW CALLED RUSSIA FEDERATION...

What the American soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan do?
What is the soldiers did in Vietnam?
What is the soldiers did in Serbia?
You have forgotten that you have made with people which lived on the grounds where you now live?

Why not having understood with the problems you try to solve another's.

“Stop Russia” over a picture of Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin with a Hitler moustache said some banners; on others, “Georgia now, who’s next?”

The Georgian President must have control over his press much like Hitler. If Georgian's knew what he did, they would have his picture up there with Hitler's moustache, although I believe Hitler was a step above this guy and a hell of a lot smarter. He at least had his act together before reigining his tyrany over others. American press, have you explained to Georgians how this thing really started? Many Germans were ashamed of what Hitler was doing but fell into the propoganda trap and then it was to late to stop him.

Michael West, lose your prejudice and get your facts straight. You can make all the arguments you want against Russia and their goals to profit from Georgia's mistake. In the end, you cannot justify Georgia killing 2,000 civilians throwing babies under tanks, herding people into buildings and setting them a blaze, and cutting the throats of many more. Many Georgians sleep with a blade that puts a machette to shame and use it like U.S. CEO's outsourcing jobs, without a second thought. Get past who is occupying what territory and ask yourself why Georgia killing 2,000 people, regarless of who those people are, should be tolerated. If you knew any foreign language, like Russian, and if you had access to European press on the ground in Ossetia, you would understand how Georgians and Russians living there view Putin as their savior. Your grasp of the situration makes me believe you must be running for political office in the U.S.

I am sick and tied of Georgian leader’s lying. Truth is very easy to check:
1. History: Stalin and many of his communist friends were Georgians. Georgians were directly responsible for establishing communist regime in Russia and as part of USSR were eagerly involved in all its military operations (Afghanistan etc)
2. Russian tanks moved to S. Ossetia only on Friday midday, after Georgian forces killed peacekeepers and 1500 Ossetians at night.
3. Russians did not bombed any pipeline
4. Friendship with US does not mean that Georgia is more democratic than Russia. It has been spending 10 % GDP for military for last 4 years (Russia – 2.5%).
5. 90% of Ossetians took Russian citizenship, because the leaving standards are much better in Russia (15000 USD per capita) than Georgia (4,667 USD per capita).

From a Military point of view, Russia built military might and perhaps struck at a crucial time, and used an absolutely flawless combined arms effort. Though, the Russians outnumbered the Georgians maybe the Georgians will not go "quietly into the night". There have been many instances in the past that a military force overwehlmed an opposing force and move so quickly that the opposing force could not withstand the initial attack or assault. But after the battle was waged and the dust had a chance to settle, the real war began. The defense of a nation, its people, and its way of life. Lessons of the past fade away, but have a tendancy to rear its nasty head everyonce in awhile. The Russians can boast that they won a quick and decisive victory over the Georgians, but they have tasted sweet victory on the field of battle before, and then were drug into a long and testing battle of will, just like the Americans are in Iraq. The Russians should remember their Afganistan war, because from what I see, this could turn into a nasty, out of control battle. Savor your victory, but learn from not only yours but others mistakes as well. You achieved your objectives, now let Georgians return to thier lives without fear of having a foriegn troops in their faces every day. Let the Georgain Democracy govern its own people and thier way of life. Russia must return to Russia and respect Georgian boarders

thank you America for your help.
georgian

Michael, I am afraid you're mistaken here. Russia does not want to exapnd its territories by annexing two separatist regions of South Ossetia and Abkhazia, which have been living under unofficial protectorate of Russia for over last 15 years now. I believe Russia wants these territories to be disputed and currently frozen as not admitted by international community to prevent Georgia from joining NATO and thus getting closer to Russian borders. Since the NATO threat to Russia in the long run is quite clear although this obvious reason of course can not be aired by politicians in the West. Russians are objectively concerned about the NATO weapons – which are by all means a whole lot better than Russian military forces – and hostile policy: let's be reminded about the recent invasion to Iraq under the fraudulent pretext of Saddam's endangering the world. Whereas the real reason turned out to be just imposing control over oil. By stretching this parallel shal we presume that controling Russia means controling the world as its the richest country in the world in terms of natural resourses the world requires so much now.

And as for the current conflict, I guess it came to everybody's surprise Saakashvilli ventured his villanious attack on South Ossetia and if not stopped by Russian forces would undertake the offensive against Abkhazia – these plans proved by a map from captured Georgian soldiers. How could have Russia possibly not responded?! Waiting for a relevant desicion by UN, a Bush pocket institution? I am somehow sure there would have been no desicion at all because US government would have never then halted Georgia, its obedient ally in the region representing the US interests there.

The Russians are acting Russian. Their plot to take over the world with socialism is actively being deployed. They use any means to get their idologies into other societies. They maime, they kill, they lie, they cheat to futher their hate. Free societies need to stand with other free societies to resist this aggressor. To live under the socialistic society would be hellish for the masses and wealth for the few who do their hatefilled bidding. Why have we assisted this country? It has only served to boost their production of their military.

Michael West:
You could as well just say: "I have a cold war mentality, move along".

Answer me Michael, what country, whos plans, as you say, is to conquer new territories, has it's president on vacation and it's vice president in Beijing Olympics?

And just for the record, Stalin was born in Georgia (Gori to be precise), that makes him Georgian.

Russia feels Georgia is in its' sphere of influence, and Georgia feels it should not be. The issue comes whether Gerogia had a right to invade territories technically within its boundaries, but protected by foreign peacekeepers. If history is a precendent- then it did not- any more than did Serbia have a right to try to attack Kosovo, or invade Montenegro. I think that if democracy is the standard, that the people of South Ossetia and Abkhazia should be allowed to vote on whether they should remain in Georgia, become independent, or be annexed to Russia. A truly democratic vote, and let Russia and Georgia respect the verdict, though I doubt that Georgia would be willing to do so.

The Russians are trying to demonstrate their power over a region that is pro-american and must be stopped. Even if means pulling some troops out of Iraq and placing them in Georgia. If they are not stopped and Russia has power over the caspian region they will have incredible energy leverage over the entire west. They must be stopped at all cost.

Let’s try informing ourselves from multiple sources (i.e. US and international) on this subject. And let’s not try using historical analogies (Afghanistan, Stalin) when we know very little about history of the region in the first place. If we go this route, why not remember that Stalin was a Georgian by birth and ethnicity, and wanted Georgia to have control over the neighboring territories of Ossetia and Abkhazia? Did we account for that?
Admittedly, making sensible arguments about borders in that part of the world is quite difficult, as most of the borders were drawn by Communists in the early part of the 20th century.
Mr. Saakashvili's attempt to regain control over S. Ossetia was a desperate attempt of a losing politician to win full-fledged support of the United States. Europe doesn't want Georgia, so it has no real friends in the region (Ukraine, Latvia, Lithuania aren't exactly the 'useful' kind of friends that Georgia needs). But is Georgia really better off by making enemies with its immediate neighbor, a neighbor that houses a very sizable Georgian community? I think that Mr. Saakashvili has rendered an ill service to his own people in the first place, and it's only a matter of time before they let him know that in the next, hopefully democratic and independent election.

What Russian invasion are you talking about?
I'll explain to Americans what happened and what CNN doesn’t telling you.
August 7 1:00 a.m., Georgians military started bombing Ossetia city of Tskhinvali. They killed thousands civilians including Russians, and Georgians and Russians peacemakers.
Russia sent statement to UN. UN did not make any decisions. Ossetia civilians continuous dying.
August 8. Russians military entering to Ossetia to stop the war and for help Russians peacemakers. But for stopping fire Russians was must distract Georgians forces in Gori. The small war is ended. That’s what happened.

People like Bush need to wake up and realize that Georgia is not the helpless little country it's trying to appear to be. After the Soviet Union collapsed, Georgia asked for independence and got it. But when the Ossetians asked, they were denied. Not only that, but a few years after they recieved de facto independence following a war they Won, Georgia began launching artillery into their capital. Russia may just be trying to reextend their influence over the Caucasus, but like it or not the Ossetians deserve to have a free nation. People may say things like what would have stalin done, but the USSR is dead and gone. Vladimir Putin was a low politican who rose to power and brought stability to an exhausted and humiliated nation. And don't pretend like the US is perfect either, we've never exactly ceased expanding. So heres my two cents: the US needs to stop interfering with stuff that isn't their business, and Georgia needs to give up what should have been given up in the early 90's.

What an irony...
Bush's own policies are coming to haunt him and his band wagon at the end of their tenure.
This mans policy of unilateralism has made this world a more dangerous place.
First it was USA
Now russia first to georgia and then very sure ukraine then belaruse and all eyes will then be set on the baltic states.
Russia is so strong at present with oil prices skyrocketting it is going to get more stronger and even mighty then what soviet union was.
Then we have CHINA.- seeing this china is not going to hold back on taiwan and also sprately islands.
So american public which was lobbying around bush 5 years back without have far sighted congnition of what this behaviour will hold for future is getting to see how dangerous the world is today and it is going to get more dangerous.
WHAT CAN BUSH ADMINISTRATION AND AMERICA DO ?
NOTHING. JUST SIT AND WATCH THE POWERFUL COUNTRIES EATING UP WEAK SMALL COUNTRIES.

The leaders of other ex-Soviet satellites know they are next. When was the last time Putin gave in? Why would anyone expect Russia to be any different? What's the up side? I don't believe they ever intended to give up warm water ports. Ukraine doesn't either by the way. It is appalling how little support the EU gives without worrying about their gas supplies. Russia acts as if they have all the cards. I say stand and deliver NATO or cease to flaunt your pretty blue star and go back to yes sir no sir 3 bags full sir.

Real photos what Gergian army trained by US did for civilians in South Ossetia.....http://www.flickr.com/photos/29507379@N06/

There is only one thing here, South Osetia = Kosovo, Georgia = Serbia, Rusia=NATO 1999 moving in to protect civilians.

If you guys say wath you did to Serbia in 1999 to get Kosovo independent is ok, please dont say this what Russia does right now is much different. Remember you acted without any legal right, Russia at leaset had their peace keeping forces in Georigia and they can claim they just followed the agreement signed earlier to protect Russian minority in the region.

don't be naive please.

thank you

Go read about the atrocities of the Georgian army on South Ossetians from other news websites. Then make an informed decision.

I really have no sympathy for Georgia in a war that they started themselves. If shelving Ossetians in their sleep and using artillery indiscriminately on villages is not genocide, then what is? You also have eyewitness accounts that women and children hiding in basements for days to avoids being killed by the Georgian army. Some without food, one woman with her child and only a can of condense milk to last two days. Another with her child was hiding in the basement as it is 'better for them to die in their home', then be killed in the streets.

Even if you consider South Ossetia as part of Georgian, can you support a man who basically is trying to start a civil war? I can't.

To have better insight of Russian action in Georgia, can we imagine a situation like -Russia and/or China should use their new gained economic strength to create a millitary alliance with countries like Canada, Mexico, Cuba, Venezuala, Colombia, Nicaragua, Panama etc., at the door step of US, and use slogans of 'free world', 'right of chosing partner' etc. The allinace should in the name of security from 'rogue nations' put on 'defence shield' etc.etc. across the border of the US.

Any person with common sense can make out what would be US reaction.

Secondly, a lesson for Georgia and other countries making speaches in Tbilishi, a rogue friend next door is better than good speach making friend far away who is more concerned of oil and power than your "freedom". If you want peace at home, make friend with neighbour.

>> Russia’s history shows that their intent was expansionism since, >>what, 1300’s?
Are you sure that know history of Russia? I'm not...

>>Now they say that Georgia attacked Ossetians
That's right!

>>Russia will lie to expand it’s territory
It's funny! What for Russia Georgia?

how amazing it is to hear us state sec.ms.rice champion the rights of small nations when they are slaughtered by larger and more powerful neighbours,who was it that said that we will give israel one month to finish the job ,in regards to israel where they were killing and bombing people out of lebanon in 2006.people around the world are awake to all the double standards that are applied in regard to the us.ms. rice is correct its not 1968 that also applies to the rest, it depends what side of the goal line your standing at,when they kick off

For God's sake, stop making a victim of aggression out of Georgia!
This political warfare has turned in such a hypocrisy that only a 5-year old will believe the stories the media are telling in the Wets, depicting Saakashvili as a hero of a "small but proud democracy".
Get real, if you are in Tbilisi, take the time and drive to Tshinvali. Yes, it's the place, Saakashvili has turned into dust with Georgian tanks and bombs, while people were in the beds or having dinner. Go ask people in South Osetia what has happened to them, not those in Georgia.
If you pretend to be an objective and informative media, deal with the facts, not opinions, provided in many cases by a hysterical leader, whose aim is to provoke Russia by any means.

:)))
Why there is only one side of the conflict described here?

Lots of pictures from the Georgia, showing destruction of the civilian houses(the strikes were to the military objects and no civilians as cnn says was harmed), interview of the georgian doctor in the well equipped hospital, lots of speeches from Saakashvili (by the way why he delivers speeches to his people in english?:) lots of Georgian people knows russian but almost nobody knows english...) But please tell me why there was no news directly from Osetia? Why no one tells that war started for about 20 hours before russian troops entered Osetia? Why no one shows here that about a week before the assault Osetia told everybody that Georgia will attack Osetia and evacuated kids from Tshinwali(by the way, directly at this time Saakashvili told to the world that he "...will never use force against my own nation in Osetia...") Why no one shows here quotations from russian news and internet blogs? Why no one shows here that from night 07-08 lots of e-mails sms and calls went from Osetia to Russia, and the text was "...help us! we are killed by georgians!...". It was before the communication was closed by georgian troops. I saw message like this on the phone of my osetian colleague.(In the middle of the day all the news and the blogs sounded like "...Russia! why you betrayed your citizens again..." What should Russia do...? Why no one shows pictures from Tshinvali hospital(why the basement – because hospital was bombarded by the georgian troops when they attacked Tshinvali)(by the way in the Tshinvaly hospital there was one wounded guy that told russian journalists that he is american journalist and his colleague was killed...) Why no one shows that georgian troops burned church with those who hided inside? Why no one shows that georgian peacekeepers attacked their osetian and russian colleagues instead of trying to keep peace?

The Saakashvili's speech about occupation of Georgia sounds very symphatetic to the western people, but why Russian needs their territory? Fuel transportation??? Russian fuel companies worked working and will work there... and the control of this line belongs to them... Territory of Osetia or Georgia? laughing... there is nothing valuable there except the pipeline...
The only reason of the why russian georgian and american politics argued in the last 5-10 years that Russia don't like when NATO weapons and bases surrounds Russia all over. Will USA be pleased and cheerful if russian military bases will appear on Cuba Hawaii and Mexica...?

Above all the main reason of such heavy actions of Russia(military command wanted to action much harder) that Saakashvili told everybody that he never attack Osetia but denied to sign all russian and osetian peace-keeping documents... and when he told this his troops were deploying fos assault... And he does it after the visit of Mrs Rice... and nobody trusts that he did it without the permission of american government...
(about 120-150 american military specialists in Georgian army headhuarters, some instructors, and there was some information about killed georgian soldiers ... mmm don't know how to say correctly... african birth...mercs or...?)...

this conflict is quite dirty from the both sides as every other conflict... But the main goal of the journalists in to show all sides of the truth
So show it...

I agree with Mikhail that the conflict is "dirty from the both sides" -two sides being Georgia and Russia. And that's a pity – because, no matter how often Russia stressed that this is a conflict between Georgia and people living in breakaway regions, it has always been clear for everyone that Russia had an interest of having control over the region, even if it meant control over destabilization.

Russia has been present in Georgia for a long time now. I have a strong feeling that most of the citizens of Russia think that South Osetia and Abkhazia are not parts of Georgia, simply because that's what they have been told abd taught for at least the past 15 years.

After the conflicts were "frozen" Russia started issuing Russian passports in Abkhazia and in South Osetia. People living in these provinces had a choice: either to get Russian citizenship (which by the way also meant free movement to Russia for trade purposes) or leave their homes and flee to Georgia to live in shelters. Of course, a great majority accepted Russian citizenship.

So given the conflict of interests, given Russia's aspiration to have a great control over the territories and in the Caucasus in General, and given the fact that Russian media is pretty much controlled by Russian government and Russian media has always supported propaganda launched by the Russian Government, I always look with a scepticism of what Russian media reps are saying on TV. That's probably why most of the world does not believe the stories that Russian media is highlithting.

Georgia is not Chechnya!!! The Russians will not get away as they did in the Republics of North Caucasus and when talking about Russia protecting innocent population of Soth Ossetia remember: BESLAN (NORTH OSSETIA), CHECHNYA, INGUSHETIA... for hundreds of years the this operssion goes on there, and Russia will fool nobody by pretending that the care about anything expect their Imperialistic ideas.

HOW CAN YOU BE SO BRAINWASHED???
You say that Russia has invaded Georgia simply to expand its territory.
A) This is false! South Ossetions and Abkhazians WANT to join up to Russia. They are Russian citizens because after the collapse of the Soviet Union they chose to become Russian citizens, not because Russia randomly gave out their passports. Those citizens HATE Georgians. It is a tribal conflict, rooted in them for centuries. They do not want to live with them. However, Georgians believed that they must control those states, and chose to militarily invade those territories, even though they have been warned that such actions will provoke military response from Russia! Now is that not violation of civil rights, to send troops into a province for no reason, but to gain physical control of its masses? Yet, the Georgians chose to act, despite the numerous warnings! Russia had no choice but to react in such a way. They could not simply abandon their citizens, who count on Russia to defend them! Russians could not stand by and watch their citizens be killed (as was the case) by Georgians. Naturally many don't show the damage left by Georgians in those states. Why? Because it is far more serious than that in Georgia, and the US wants to portray Russia as the "bad guy." Naturally.
B) Many here say that Russia is attempting to seize control over Georgia under false pretenses. That is not true, as nothing would have happened if Georgia hadn't attacked the regions FIRST. But more importantly, why don't you take a look at yourselves? American troops are present in over 150 countries all around the globe, completely disrespecting those countries' soveregnties, as you so put it! Americans claim that they do that to spread "democracy" to other nations. What democracy? For one, even in the US, democracy does not exist as in the last 2 elections, the president was NOT elected by popular vote, but rather by political manipulation! No folks, "democracy" is not the reason America invades others. It is for personal interests, such as natural resources like oil! For instance, prior to invading Iraq, the US brainwashed its people, telling everyone about the need to bring peace to Iraq and of the dangers of the non-existant weapons of mass destruction which supposedly are hidden there. But tell me, how can you create peace with physical force and violence, such as is brought by armies and war? You cannot! Unless you are a complete airhead, it becomes clear that the true motive behind the invasion is the pursuit of America's personal interests! And ofcourse, afterall, Iraq is a major resource of oil! The US have violated so many countries' sovereignties under false pretenses, that they simply cannot say that Russia's entrance into Georgia to protect its OWN people is a severe war crime that deserves serious punishment. I call all of you, who still have it in them, to attempt to understand and learn the truth about the nature of the conflict prior to beleiving everything the fickle media tells you, and to realize the true motives of America's invasions into other sovereign entities prior to making judgements of others' necessary actions. Please-open your eyes! You know only better than I do that we cannot trust everything we are being told!

Saakashvili has killed a lot of the peace population, including russians, and also peacemakers. He should for it answer together with the USA. By the way, and what would make the USA with the democratic president if he would kill so much citizens of the USA? Israel began war because of one soldier .USA in Grenada because of several citizens began war and the government has change. And Russia has not gone to Tbilisi.

I would strongly disagree with the statement on people living in Abkhazia and South Osetia having been in conflict with the rest of Georgia for centuries – would you be able to support that with any historical evidence? No, the terrible truth is that Russia has always been supporting separatism in Georgia. Starting from giving autonomy to regions in Georgia during Soviet times, Georgia itself is too tiny to have three autonomous republics within its borders. How come Abkhazia and Samachablo (which is the original name of South Osetia by the way. Russia gave this name hoping to associate the territory with so called north Osetia, thus with Russia) were not in war with the rest of Georgia in 1921 when Georgia gained its independence from Russian empire? and when Bolsheviks annexed Georgia? Why is that this "conflict" started in 90's, when Georgia did not want to be a part of Soviet Union? This is the time when Russia had such a great influence in these parts supporting separatists to provoke the conflict.

In addition to people living in conflict zones, there are thousands of those who fled and live in different countries (including Russia). Despite the State propaganda supported by media and school materials, I would not expect any citizen of Russia to be that naive to believe that this is a war between Georgia and people living in the breakaway regions.

Unfortunately, we do not have a choice, we either have to ally with West or with Russia. Unfortunately, Russia is not the best solution given their aspirations and attitude towards Georgia. We have to choose between bad and worse, we go for bad, hoping to get better..

It is very easy to be angry at Georgia, if you are watching Russian TV.. but if you live in Georgia and have to go through all of this, believe me everything seems different!

And by the way, for the record, there are a number of US citizens living in Georgia. When the war broke out last week, the US troops did not come in to defend their citizens, the US embassy assisted the citizens and evacuated most of them from the country... That's what the government does to guarantee the safety for the citizens, not deploying troops and killing inocent people.

Russian Handwriting

Neither of course Russian, nor Western media ever talked about the real fire starter in this conflict.
11 consecutive days of bombings from Ossetian / Russian side did not show up in reports. However Georgians were seeing all this with their own eyes. There were casualties from Georgian side.
Georgian government has requested from Russian Warkeepers (or so-called peacekeepers) repeatedly to stop another conflicting side from using force. However Russians were responding very negative way every time saying that these armed terrorist groups were out of their control. Very ironic. These groups are armed and trained by Russia but Russians can not control them.
This is not a secret that Russians have inspired this conflict and they were getting ready for it for a long time. Russians' main goal was to remove pro Western Georgian government that was real pain in the ass for the Russia and to stop expansion of NATO at any cost. Show me a single person in this world that truly believes in peaceful aspiration of Russian government, remember Chechnya and Beslan for example.
All of a sudden Russian bear becomes protector of small, tiny ethnicities, gives them Russian citizenship and here you go. By the way, I should also mention that Georgian troops have seized over a thousand fake professionally made Russian passports intended to be stamped in and distributed among ethnic Ossetians living in Tskhinvali by Russian peacekeepers. This has been already done before but this time it was being done to manually increase number of Russian citizens in the region in order to justify the invasion. What an easy way to invade another country – just give passports to some small ethnic group of people there, start war with the government of that country and then go ahead and invade that country using protection of your citizens as a pretext.
Then there was a truce agreement between Georgia and Russia. However did Russia stop there? No! either their alcoholic generals were not subordinating Russian government or there was direct order to continue atrocities. they have claimed more Georgian cities and civilian lives there, hitting bombs on SOLELY civilian targets.
Moreover! Russian inspired so-called “Abkhaz forces” continued attacking Georgia controlled Kodori Gorge situated in the West of Georgia. So-called “Abkhazian” scenario directed by Russia was similar to Ossetia here. When Georgian government demanded immediate end of attacks from Russia they said that no Russians were participating in these attacks and that they were acting alone. O.K. but why Russians did not stop attackers here? They are swift to move in order to stop Georgian troops when they respond to the violence from Separatist terrorist groups. This is single-sided peacekeeping that can be qualified as “War keeping” instead. Double standards for Russian government is very much characteristic and familiar not only for Georgians. Saying one thing and doing another thing is Russian thing. Russia has violated almost every single treaty and ceasefire agreement with Georgia starting from 19-th century.
Russian handwriting is also very familiar. In 1921 Russian red army has violated agreement with Georgia when they invaded the country “at the request of local communist groups” that were “oppressed” by Social Democrats, in charge of Georgian government back then.
See? Russians invade but from the outside they try hard to make it seem that it was demand from an inside of the country, it was “just what doctor ordered”. How ironic!

That time On August 12 during the rally on Rustaveli Ave. in Tbilisi I had chance to talk to Mr. Matthew Bryza – special envoy of the United States State Secretary. He was all smiling and posing for photos with locals. I asked him whether or not it was n\right time for smiles and posing when Russian troops were violating truce and attacking Georgia on second front from the west. His reply was very ironic:” it’s terrible, isn’t it” and he was in denial saying :”It is not our war”.
Today, on August 14th Western media sources were reporting that Russia has given up on some ambitions in Georgia – after President Bush finally made some tough speech.

Russians are not scared yet until they see real muscles from the United States. They are just calming things down in order to launch another attack tomorrow. That’s the way they do. So the world has to stand united against Russian threat and make Russians feel that they are alone against everybody.

Now, what I really believe Russia should be punished for these committed barbarian atrocities. Punishment has to be so sweet that Russian government has to think twice after that before it takes any more steps towards aggression.

You probable forgot how much people has been killed in Chechnya?
And now same government and same persons try to save somebody?
It is funny.

1939 – 10 years before i was born – the Russian rhetoric was the same...does anyone know on this earth except for the dead, that the Russians killed, massacred 100 – 110 million of their own people and then Stalin came along in the 30's and disposed of another 60 million....(oh well)......look it up...and you know, they had "irregular soldiers" then,WW2, with the war with Finland(Pop. thereabouts 4 million – as opposed to Russia's 180 million)...and my Dad, his "Battallion" on skiis in the winter and bicycles the rest of the year, and/or on foot, kept chasing these "partisans" as they were called – who crossed freely and brutally murdereded civilians across the border and spoke the double speak language even then(enticing simple villagers to follow them to "safety")whole villages...10,000 years of my people and their beginnings eliminated from the face of the earth – tribes...roots...and many others...look it up...Soviet Story...our story...many stories in the face of Russian brutality because of their fear and paranoia...just as the President of Georgia says: same rhetoric...same lies...Finland attempted to make a stand, but, in the end, 350,000 troops were no match for Russia's millions – Russian only resource was human lives on the fronts...willing and killing....Now, is time to draw the line...somehow, can we help these angry, poor, brutal peoples(these Russians) who have so much history, and music, and art and beauty to offer the world, and so as to see that they have no need to fear anything from any of us....

Gal from Georgia: I think to be angry at Georgia or say something about any country totally is crime,because any country got good and bad people.

In my opinion, American government and mass media showed their great amorality and incompetence in the light of the last events. It’s more than sad. Where is your humanity ethics or journalist ethics? The most disgraceful thing is that nobody wants to SPEAK and to LISTEN to CITIZENS OF SOUTH OSSETIA. People who suffered from this conflict, who survived in this terrible war, who lost their relatives because of this war! People (it’s obviously) who (and only who) can tell a real truth! And what can we see on CNN … thousands and thousands of interviews and SAAKASHVILI speeches. Who is Saakashvili? The main victim of this conflict? What truth can he say? And why many survived citizens from Tshinvali name him “a second Hitler”??? The answer CNN is trying to give makes me dead. “Because most of them have Russian passports” … what does it mean? Are they afraid of Putins’ repressions??? What can people whose children or parents were killed be afraid of …??? Or maybe they are victims of propaganda? But how it’s possible to explain? Russian troops took clothes of Georgian army and bombed Tshinvali from Georgian arms … and forced all Tshinvali citizens believe that it were Georgian troops??? CNN, have a heart! What do these people feel when they see your news plots?!

p.s: Sometimes it is better not only to believe that American mass media tells only truth but try to think by your own head …

i had a pen pal in 1968 in Bratislava, then Chzechoslovakia – we had the same taste in music(the Beatles)...his first name Juraj...it was, let me see, now i think of it – didn't realize till now – 40 years ago – lord! i must have lived longer than i anticipated!!!...anyway, i still have his letters – how he had to smuggle them out of his country with a relative who was a merchant seaman....some of his letters which had been intercepted before he thought to smuggle them out with this relative(which were mailed and postmarked from Vienna, Austria) had sentences and phrases actually blacked out....same with my letters to him....his words to me, written Aug. 22, 1968, stated -from my memory, and, i have the letters still – that he woke up in the morning and Russian tanks were everywhere....he wanted me to know and let everyone here know(i lived in L.A., California at the time) that no matter what was being said, the Chzec people did not want the Russians there....Dubczek was their leader – taking them onto much the same kind of free society and economy as has been the experience in Georgia these days....he wrote me many letters, telling me how his son was born on the 12th of August...Juraj said:this means he lived 10 days in freedom...how could one not respond to this...we all want free-dom...especially for our babies!!!???go ahead – dispute me...i'll listen...

i had a pen pal in 1968 in Bratislava, then Czechoslovakia – we had the same taste in music(the Beatles)...his first name Juraj...it was, let me see, now i think of it – didn't realize till now – 40 years ago – lord! i must have lived longer than i anticipated!!!...anyway, i still have his letters – how he had to smuggle them out of his country with a relative who was a merchant seaman....some of his letters which had been intercepted before he thought to smuggle them out with this relative(which were mailed and postmarked from Vienna, Austria) had sentences and phrases actually blacked out....same with my letters to him....his words to me, written Aug. 22, 1968, stated -from my memory, and, i have the letters still – that he woke up in the morning and Russian tanks were everywhere....he wanted me to know and let everyone here know(i lived in L.A., California at the time) that no matter what was being said, the Chzec people did not want the Russians there....Dubczek was their leader – taking them onto much the same kind of free society and economy as has been the experience in Georgia these days....he wrote me many letters, telling me how his son was born on the 12th of August...Juraj said:this means he lived 10 days in freedom...how could one not respond to this...we all want free-dom...especially for our babies!!!???go ahead – dispute me...i'll listen...

Why aren't you showing the picture of SO? All I see on CNN is the same building in Gori for the last four days. Have you guys run out of materials? Why the West keeps the mouth shut about 2000 civilians killed by georgians in SO? Why CNN does not publish pictures of murdering kids and women by georgian soldiers? Are you scare to go to South Osetia and show the real picture to the world of what Saakashvili did? Yeah right, I don't believe in independent media anymore, it's all propaganda.

America has to awake now to stop the Russians from reconstructing the Russian empire. Georgia was tricked into reacting by the Russians who were already planning to invade Georgia anyway. How else can they get 15.000 troops in Georgia in just three days?? Normally it takes months of planning and preparation to get such an army ready to invade a country. The first thing America needs to do is get its fighter jets to Georgia and secure its airspace free of Russian jets. Additionally all Russian bank accounts need to be frozen for as long as there is one single Russian soldier in Georgia. Finally the Russians responsible for the genocide in Ossetia and Abkazia need to be bought to the criminal court in The Hague. Clearly the Russians, helped by their criminal Ossetian and Abkazian allies, are responsible for killing and displacing Georgians who were living in Abkazia and Ossetia and now even in Georgia itself. Finally the displaced Georgians need to be allowed to return to their homes in Abkazia and South Ossetia.

The western world cannot allow that ethnic cleansing (in this case of Georgians) is rewarded by the independence or by annexation by Russia. If the west allows this then Russia will have gotten the signal that it can do as it pleases and then the Baltic states, Ukraine and Moldova will be next!

For all those claiming that there have been war crimes from Georgian side, where are the 2000 bodies?? Where are the pictures?? Where are the video's?? I feel a deep sense of pity for the Russian population, they do not realise yet, that they have been once again locked up behind an iron curtain for decades. In 20 years when Russia will be again on its knees, they will realise that Putin was no better than Stalin and Lenin and that he brought Russia back into the same misery it was in in the times of the former USSR. This time they cannot tell they have not been warned, Gary Kasparov has been warning them against their dictator Putin more than once in the past years and they did not listen. Now they will have to live in a country ruled by stinking rich criminals (called oligarchs) which spend all the money on the army while old and poor people die of hunger and lack of medication while their rich people bath in luxury in their second homes in France, Italy and Turkey.

I would call all those Russians who read this forum to pack their bags and come to western Europe while they still can. I am convinced that In the near future they otherwise will be again locked up behind a fence by their dictators. This was the case for 5 decades during the previous century!

In the west we are free to say and think what we want, in Russia anybody saying on a television channel that the Kremlin is lying would be immediately put in jail! Putin has killed your freedom of speech, soon he will take away your freedom to travel, and in the end he will send your children to be killed in his stupid wars in the Kaukasus. Why would a normally thinking Russian send its child to a war in the Kaukasus to kill fellow orthodox Christian brothers to defend muslim terrorists like Chechens and Abkazians. Only a dictator with machiavellian plans can make sense out of this! Georgians and Russians are brothers and brothers don't kill each other.

Refusing military service is a reason for getting granted asylum in western Europe! Profit from it while you still can before you are put on a convoy to kill or get killed by your brothers who believe in the same God as you and go to the same orthodox church!

Only nations who have expirienced US way of "inforcing democracy" first hand, can really grasp what acctually went on over there.
Not even Georgians themselves (I'm not refering to their goverment, but to an average citizen) are fully aware of the plot behind it all.
The rest of you from the west, I truely understand why you're not even considering the option the things are not all what they seem after been presented by this and other "western" media.
I'm not taking anybody's side, except the side of the common man, Sout Ossetian and Georgian alike!
My people has been there already...Hold on and don't let anyone mislead you into hating eachother. Nobody can care about you more then your first-door neighbour! After this is all over, it is you who will have to live next to eachother! Not Russians and especially not Americans....

Well I see the Cyber wariors have got to CNN. Lets get real here Russia and Putin KGB/FSB want the old Soviet Union Back. After all they where the only true Imperialist in the World. They never let any of there conquered lands be indepenent until the breakup.Putin will now be in charge until he gets to old like Castro to run the whole show. If you read between the lines this is the crux of what is being said here.
No I am not for Bush or McBush but both sides need to be heard here and the site should not be controled by any group and their Moscow friends. You "young" Russians that would like the old way back well watch what you ask for you just might get it and not much has really changed anyway I know I have been there and saw for myself.

Gal from Georgia, you mean Russia should do the same as US and evacuate South Ossetians and leave South Ossetia in the hands of Georgians, the aggressors in this instance?

You ought to be joking. By the way, why don't you blame your president for making a wrong judgement.

I believe all Russian citizens must read it. For long run, for Russian citizens it's good time to stand and ask your government to become a bit more democratic. You are huge country with huge resources and normal people are even more pure then in other pure post soviet countries. Russia is not only Moscow and Saint-Petersburg, and Russia is not only for "new Russians". You can be strong country without forcing others to believe it.

Liers always was RUSSIANS!Remember international mission in AFGANISTAN?PRAGA?Hungary?Poland?And many-many things else!
Ok facts: aprxim 300000 yes three hundred thousands ethnic Georgians were out from ABKHAZETI!!its not genocid?
OK one more:Russian sayin they carry peacekeeping operation in S/Osetia where georgians attacked separatist .Ok no problem!
But what about Abkhazia where even Russian television and leader of separatist saying THEY attacked Georgia!What was prowed by UN mission!!!Why Russions not tooking act and punishing Abkhazia forces?
Because RUSSIAN attacking Georgia!!Abkhazian -only statists!!!
Thanks USA!!!!!!!You are realy saved my country and GEORGIANS!!!!!

Wow! Interesting responses to this ignorant man. I can't even finish reading the whole blog.

I thought I was quite clear in saying it. Yes, it is there; both sides lied. Did I justify Georgia attacking Ossetia? No. I said Georgia was asserting it's control over territories that used to belong to them at some point in Russia's long history. Did I justify Georgia killing innocent civilians? No. Did I justify Russia invading Georgia and blowing the daylights out of the Georgian army (total all out war to anhilate them), no.

It is so easy to be passionate about things. Every single country in the world has had "territorial Issues" that; eventhough settled 1-2 hundred years ago they can go back on and fight for if they want to. For you; history buffs, if Great Britain had given the Confederate States british passports declaring them British subjects (which most of them were by ancestry) it would have been a very differnt story when Lincoln engaged in the Civil War. You all can see in this last sentence whatever it pleases you. I see a direct relationship to the Georgian's situation.

Some of you say that what if the US had x thousands of poeple massacred? It eventually will happen. Didn't 9/11 happen? What would Russia have done if they had a 9/11? Blow the daylights of the country they thought was harboring the responsible parties. Whether intelligence was right or wrong; Russia would have been quite stern in "teaching them a lesson" and no one can convince me that if in the same shoes as 9/11 Russia would have not attacked some country they felt had some responsibility for it. By the way; I am not even a fullbloded gringo.

Then the entry about me reading only CNN's side of the story. Wait a minute! I thought Fox was the right wing news media (which I also read to get both sides of the story). I know the game. I was raised in a dictatorship. I know the lies and the tricks a totalitarian regime uses to get it's way. I saw it, I lived it. I also love history, I have read about Russian history. I have taken political courses and I know that the three super powers have their sphere of influence (China, Russia, U.S.) and each one will tweak each others buttons to see how far they can go. Which leaves one last issue;

I am with the people that died. I am with those civilians that died because the Ossetian separatist's pushed too far causing the Georgians to react (GEorgia lost civilians too). I am even sad for the Russian soldiers that have died. That is where my heart lies, that is where sorrow must reside, that is where the truth lies. Civilians pay for the political goals of others. Having lived in a dictatorship I know that you better be with the one that has the guns (as a civilian) or you will regret it.

We can argue endlessly about who is right, who is wrong, who is saint and who is to blame, going historically back to ancient times or citing presentday politics. Only the result of the crisis is not argued – many people killed, many left their houses, blood, tears, ruins. Simply people, not Georgians, not Russians, not Osetians.

I want to ask the most simple question – was it inevitable?

Every step in the crisis could be predicted with the most accuracy after the order was given by M.Saakashvili to the troops to enter South Osetia.
Was it clear that Osetians will fight for their houses and many Osetians will be killed? – Yes.
Was it clear that Russia will react and Russian and Georgian soldiers will be killed? (I do say "will", not "have right to..") – Yes.
Was it clear that Russian army will fight and artillery and army positions, airports outside the conflict area will be attacked and their may be possible civilian deaths? – Yes.
From all this it is absolutly clear – M.Saakashvili don't cared of these. He don't cared Georgian lives, he don't cared Osetian lives, he don't cared Russian lives. Of coase, he must be asked for this.

There is other Russia people, read position of Russians:
http://www.theotherrussia.org/2008/08/11/russian-opposition-on-the-war-in-georgia-official-statement/

Face it Georgia, your president is a liar and a horrible leader. How can he possibly think American troops would fight against mighty Russia. America has always been #1 in being a police for the world. And I bet America had something going on in Georgia and the Russians dismantled it, thats is why America is crying right now.. But they will never fight against Russia, unless they want to have a World War 3. Ossetian wanted freedom and to be part of Russia for a very long time and Georgia attacked and killed innocent people, thinking that russia wont do anything because they have backing of America.
Look what happened after 9/11 and how America attacked Iraq and Afgan without the approval of NATO.
And now that Russia attacked Georgia to protect from innocent people from dying, America is standing up and asking Russia to stop. AND DO YOU POSSIBLY THINK THAT RUSSIA WILL LISTEN!!! HAAHHAAH .. NEVER..

I am livid that our country is even considering providing the funds and military to rebuild Georgia. When will we Americans ever realize our economy is already in the tolit, we cant even rebuild our antiquianted infrastructure,but the President gives yet another General a job, to oversee another Haliburton deal. GOD I am so MAD.

In any conflict in this God damned world every side always blame the other. Like "they kill civilians, rape women, crush homes with tanks and so on... The truth is – this is ALL truth. There are no "good" or "bad" sides at war. There are just different people.

The most sad thing about war is one insane bastard who has power can kill thousends innocent people with one his word. No mater who he is. American, Russian, Georgian or whatever

I am a former Russian Army officer. I've seen many things during my service... and you know, burned human smells the same, no mater what was his nation.

We need to stop this. All people of the world who still have brains. Filter out all what you see on TV. Think. Protest. Keep peace – it is so fragile...

First of all, you must have been in a ROMAN CATHOLIC country not Georgia because the Georgian Orhtodox Christians do not sing GREGORIAN CHANTS!!

IF you cannot get your title right then everything else you wrote is HIGHLY suspect.

Face it, Georgia got their tails kicked and I am so glad that the US military trained them in the art of French leave, also known as RUNNING AWAY from the fight.

I guess as long as the Georgians were shelling and bombing CIVILIAN HOMES AND CHURCHES in South Osssetia, they were so brave, however as soon as a REAL army showed up in Russian Tanks.

Well the wee Georgians ran back to Georgia.

Crying all the way home to Uncle Joe's backyard.

to "moderator"...
I want to "congradulate" to you on your "objectivity", "good intentions" and "professionalism".
publishing only comments that support confrontation and animosity between russians and georgians truly is a way to go...
best wishes to you all
(don't worry, I'm just kidding)

Dear Charles,
Do you know that from both these regions there are thousands of refugees scattered all over Georgia? That the war in Abkhazia, and basicly genoside of Georgians there forced them to flee their homes. So let's return these refugees to their homes, and then talk about referundum. By the way georgians were the majority of population there. The result of the referundum is obvious. And another argument, why did not Russia ask Chechnya if they wanted to be with them or not? If we put things that way, we'll get a world of much more countries, and believe me, will be hard to maintain an international order of this planet.

Our Media calls proclaims themselves to be well informed by calling on a so called expert who was in Russia 10 years ago. You are the ones who cause us to be call ugly Americans by you ill informed coverage other then shots have been fired and a picture.

Wake up and go to Russia and talk to the Russian people, look at the history of that country and the conflicts that they have had within that area. Look at how many people the current government has slaughtered over the years.

I seem to recall we backed Fidel Castro and many others who will take our money and support and then turn on us. You want Russia to support US it is about time we support them.

Media stay the hell out of something you no so little about. Do your research.

You don't speak for me or the American people, you only care about getting coverage for your ill informed words.

to Anton Ivanov: your country's level of civilisation has shown it's face during this conflict. Georgia had civilisation, when Russia and its people were still cavemen. But this is the general viewpoint of imperialistic, very oldfashined, left in middleaged Russia, who does not want to know its neighbours history, culture, language. That's why it is very hard to deal with you, not only for Georgia, but for the whole civilised world.

Kokoiti was bombing Georgian villages,Avnevi and tamarasheni-settling ossetians, Saakashvili asked for help,he send minister Iakobashvili to Kokoiti for plural negotiations,but they denied,other days Russian respesentative Popovi asked Kokoiti to stop bombing civilians(ossetians too),but Mr. Popov's car was damaged-he reached To Tskinvali in the other days,but without result.Russian representative and peacekeeper Kulahmetov stated that they hadn't influence over the Separatis

In the evening Saakashvili asked the whole Int.Community that his civilians were dieing, he stated'we must stop this mandess,but if they wouldn't we had no choice, that we would have all moral right according to the constitution and int.law to defence my peoples ossetians (Mr. Sanakoev is ossetian and is head of local goverment)and georgians'.but there was no reply.
He decided not to send Army, but he send there police and police strengthen in Georgian villages

In the evening Saakashvili asked the whole Int.Community that his civilians were dieing, he stated’we must stop this mandess,but if they wouldn’t we had no choice, that we would have all moral right according to the constitution and int.law to defence my peoples ossetians (Mr. Sanakoev is ossetian and is head of local goverment)and georgians’.but there was no reply.
He decided not to send Army, but he send there police and police strengthen in Georgian villages

Kokoiti was bombing Georgian villages,Avnevi and tamarasheni-settling ossetians, Saakashvili asked for help,he send minister Iakobashvili to Kokoiti for plural negotiations,but they denied,other days Russian respesentative Popovi asked Kokoiti to stop bombing civilians(ossetians too),but Mr. Popov’s car was damaged-he reached To Tskinvali in the other days,but without result.Russian representative and peacekeeper Kulahmetov stated that they hadn’t influence over the Separatis

EVEN IF GEORGIA FIRED FIRST ON ITS OWN SOIL, WHAT RUSSIA DID WAS WOLD BE SIMILAR TO MEXICAN TROOPS COMING TO LOS ANGELES DURING RIOTS STATING THAT THEY WERE PROTECTING MEXICAN CITIZENS IN US; CAN YOU IMAGINE THAT US WOULD ALLOW THAT???? WHATEVER THE POLITICS OR MOTIVES, THE FACT IS OSETIA IS PART OF GEORGIA AND RUSSIAN TROOPS CROSSED GEORGIAN BORDER, PERIOD.

I recall an american movie where there was that war with "albania" fabricated... well YES americans made a movie about how can they fool their own nation. By drawing this parrarel I don't say it's fabricated now, but I just say that this conflict is far more complicated than the western media says. There is another point of view and some correspondents actually try to tell it, but it's buried under critics. Please understand Russia is ant-war. Russia doesn't need no new territory or oil or oil pipes in Georgia. It's not that much to risk everything... Russia used to be friends with Georgia and we used to guarantee peace there. We don't need no territory to give money to and are in great surprise why does USA need it. Russia is anti-war. If you don't believe come here and see.

to Gal from Georgia: "US troops did not come in to defend their citizens" right you are. And as a fact your citizens didn't face with genocide! Whoever your troops entered afgan to defend your citizens back in USA... By the way is the threat eliminated there?

The Old Soviet Union bears its ugly head again. When will Russia realize that its neighbors do not want to be controlled by Moscow?

Friends, a truly unbiased pragmatic view of the situation from Stratfor, aka “The Shadow CIA” (link below). CNN folks — disgusted by the way you covered the news in Osetia in the last few days. Shame on you. You guys forgot what JOURNALISM is about.

http://www.stratfor.com/weekly/russo_georgian_war_and_balance_power

Do you really think the Russia is right about everything?
Russia started the war using the Osetians...
Georgia just tried to defend itself...
And The Osetians you are talking about was not killed by Georgians... Georgians just defended itself and reacted on Osetian troops only. NO CIVILIANS! I am sorry for all loss of both side.
The Russians bombed the territory to destroy Georgia's army and part of Osetian civilians died just because of it...
So there was no genocide...
75% of Osetian people live in Georgia happily outside the South Osetian territory...

AND RUSSIA BOMBED: GORI (and villages around it), Senaki, Zugdidi, TBILISI, Foti and e.t.c.
Death of innocent lives...
30000 Refugees are in Tbilisi now!
The Ruissians, Osetians and Cossack troops are robbing the entire cities now, killing civilians, destroying buildings!!!! Medvedev signed the document! But there are still in the cities of Georgia!!!!

стив – I must ask you how many countries that liberate (as you stated invaded) another country rebuilds the structure of that nation. Only one, the country that you are ashamed to be a citizen of. If you are so ashamed, please leave and go back to your mother country OR do you value the freedom of this country that you are ashamed of.

Our country made a mistake in Iraq by not providing enough troops to do the job correctly, but with the surge if you ask most Iraqi's they are happy with the progress that we have made. I am sure most of them will be happy when we leave so they can police their own country.

Also, from DAY 1, the left media stated that this was war for oil. Funny, I just read that Iraq to revive oil deal with China. hmm, does that mean that the US is controlling Iraq's oil, no Iraq is.

Our country has some bad history which all nations do, but for the most part we value human life and make all attempts to protect innocent when in battle. How many other nations can say that?

I have also to tell everyone, that there are the mourning days in Georgia too... Many people died not by getting in the middle of fire... but by robber troops form Russia side, during the cease-fire... I am so sorry about everybody I have Russian relatives living in Georgia and I have nothing to argue with Russian civilians... IT'S JUST THE GOVERNMENT RESPONSIBLE FOR EVERYTHING THE ENTIRE RUSSIAN GOVERNMENT, NOT THE CIVILIANS!

Jeffery Harrison you state that 1600 innocent civilians have been slaughtered by the Georgian military. UN stated that Russia has fabricated this and that the numbers are around 30 and maybe around 300 wounded.

I believe both sides are at fault. If Georgia really considers itself as an democratic nation, let SO vote to decide if it wants to be part of the Georgian Nation.

Although Russia stated that Georgia started this war, I am a little curious how Russia was able to assemble such a massive tank force in SO in such a short notice. I am think Russia has prepared for this and was looking for an excuse to go in.

Share your thoughts

Poor Tom Mckay – please check your facts. As I stated to стив, I read the article "Iraq to revive oil deal with China" from http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/meast/08/10/iraq.china.ap/index.html

READ IT! does that sound like the US went into Iraq for the oil?

You also forget to consider that Israel is constantly having to protect herself from bombings and suicide bomers, What should Israel do, turn the other cheek?

I wished we lived in a world without conflict, but as you know we do not. Will you side with the Aggressor or with the one seeking it's liberal freedoms?

Dave Kely – imagine if the Soviet Union and yes, even though the United States waited until she was hit before deciding to take action would have ignored the invasions of France and the other Nations in Europe that Germany was annihilating. I think most of the world would be speaking German and we would not have the luxury of voicing our opinion with each other, as we are now online.

Imagine what it would be like. I think you and I are very fortunate that the US is still in the position to influence.

Andrei you are showinist and naci as your KGB Putin or Shutin;

And Russia will get from whole world the answer.

Vlad and Andrey you are will be stuck in your country and nobody will allow you to get in their country. After that will see. You and people like you are barbarian and do not deserve to be with other world.

This links are for you showinists and nacis:

How Barbarian Russia Started war, how many people died.

http://novayagazeta.ru/data/2008/59/04.html

It is very interesting to read the Russian side of the story. I do agree that peacekeepers from Russia have been in the break away states for a long while. However, I have to disagree that those two provinces in the north are Russian. The proper lines of demarkation clearly show that both provinces fall within Georgia and should be respected as such. If the people of both provinces vote on wether to be Russian or Georgian then whatever they choose should be respected. I am sure that both sides are trying to sway the masses to thier point of view. Let the people of the provinces decide for themselves that is freedom and the only way to peace. Once again Russia has delivered a crushing defeat to the Georgian Military, now will Russia allow the "protected lands" speak for itself. Only time will tell.

Come on We are talking about humans, civilians killed, slpeeping as we all do, attacked at night.... lets give some peace on aearth...

The world does not deserve more hate or killings. It's total unfair that USA allows to commite genocide on Osethia because they have interests against Russia. Civil society cannot allow it...

As everybody is agains US war on Iraq new War is Osethia? No way!!!! Pace now!!!!!

I say start turning the Nuclear Keys.....first Russia....then Iran.....then China.....pre-emptive strike on all the communist hordes. AMERICA is and will remain the defenders of liberty against the godless, communistic, soul-less scum

While reading this blog, i had to remind myself that people have the freedom of holding their opinion. however, before making comments on the fate of a country, do you ever check the facts? if you do, you'd know that both autonomies were artificially created by the Bolsheviks and encouraged throughout the soviet history. Stalin new his nation and its strive for freedom – so he put three autonomies as ticking bombs for Georgia to stay put. And these bombs have been exploding numerous times in last 18 years.

you all talk about interests and omit that the Black Sea is the key interest here. Russia holding huge Black Sea fleet and not enough ports to harbour them – how do you think the intend to solve it? through Abkhazia and Crimea, thus holding Georgia and Ukrain (to a slightly lesser extent) hostage. South Ossetia bares no real interest to russia, but it's a principle bait for Georgia. Why do you forget that Russia refuses to let NATO into its backyard? even the thought drives them nuts.

Check your facts! why doesn't any of you mention the events of the last couple of months? EU woke up at last and started its involvement in the conflict resolution in Abkhazia (and not S.Ossetia!). Even the Germans, the country always last to support Georgia, got not only involved but led the initiative of new direct Geo-Abkh negotiations for the peaceful resolution of the conflict. Russia was not pleased, cause they always counted on Germans to obstruct full EU support (like at the NATO Bucharest Summitt). So it fires up South Ossetia.

Check your facts! on the 7th of August the leader of S. Ossetia Kokoity, dressed in military uniform announced that he's starting the war with Georgia. look up russian tv channels' archives of that day. and now Georgians are the ones to blame?!?!?!

Yes we know, that we can't win against russia who's 35 times bigger in every sense. so YES we won the information war, because we speak the truth.

The Georgian troops in IRAG are/were there being trained by US forces for anti-terroristism. Specially trained to fight the Ossetti seperatists. Presidential candidate McCain has been a major supporter of Georgia over the last 10 years – becasue he has been paid hundreds of thosands of dollars to promote Georgia and setting up a beer distrubtorship there. On the record. McCains senior foreign policy chief, Randy Scheunemann, is a registered foreign lobbysist working for Georgia AND McCain.

Sad all war is about money. Innocent people in the cross fire.

USA will not put up with this BARBARIC aggression of RUSSIA'S Tyranical Leadership...PUTIN and MEDVEDEV made a huge mistake.....recently a reporter on CNN made an absurd comment that the US is over-extended in IRAQ and AFGHANISTAN...I guess this REPORTER like many these days has no CLUE on US MILITARY POWER...

The USA is utilizing less than 3% of its military power in both IRAQ and AFGHANISTAN...

RUSSIA better be real careful...as they stand to lose all they have gained....

I recently toured RUSSIA and realized that this country with immense potential was turned into a 3rd WORLD NATION by its COMMUNIST..BARBARIC and TYRRANICAL leaders

Lets not forget that STALIN and LENIN killed over 50 MILLION people.....almost 10 times more than HITLER

PUTIN is a former KGN that is following the footsteps of STALIN

ENOUGH......"don't awake a sleeping GIANT" or you will suffer

I read your discussions about Georgia, I am somthelf georgian, I live in Tbilisi, and belive me I knew the situation bether then you do it, what Russa whants, what would Stalin do in this case? Firstofol, I hope, all of you knews that Stalin was georgian, that stalin is dead, and no one can gues what he would do in such situation, iven you dont knew, what you would do, if you were in this situation, in wich we are. Iven you don't knew whole story about the relationsshipes beatvin Georgia and Russa. This everithing has started sentures ago and till today it continius, If you want the reality about this situation firstifol I advise you to read the history about Georgia from 17 senture, in this time has started the first relationships with Russa...
So Osetien are the citisens from Georgia, than we have a lot of familis who are half Osetien and half Georgians. This alrady says that we are together, if you contackt the Osetien people, you would heare the warlds, like we are brother, familis and s.o. but in Osetien are a few of Osetiens, there naw are people from Russa. We want to speak for our self, we want freedom, and we are free, If I was in Mr. Saakashvilis place, I hope I would do the same dicision, because, if we want to stay as a souvener country, we should proteckt this, no war is without sacrifice, Russa has to agree, that we do not belong to him anymore. We have a lot of friends in Russa, we are just against the politik of Putin and Medvedzev. Saakashvili has tried to issu this probles with diplomacy, but what do you think, if someone is evryday attaking you, with assistance of separatism, and kiling just citysens front your eas, you wouldn't do anything? Or it would be for you inaght and start to protekt tham, or you would allaow tham to atak every night the vilages nexts to Samatchablo (Tshinvali)?! In reality this situation has showen all ward, that Russa is a dangerous country.

mang,
If you knew,Osetians have already voted and 90% of them chose to be with Russia.Nobody paid any attention to that fact.
Why those people are not heard? They do not want to be with Georgia.
Just let them go!
It doesn't even matter who they decide to stay with or to be independent-that's their right!
Their "fault" is that they live in a wrong place-Georgia is too important to US. Serbia is different-it doesn't have boarders with Russia and serbians are Russian friends-why bother for US.That's why Kosovo situation is "absolutely" different for America.
It's just a war of interests.Nothing else.
Isn't it too cynic,Americans?

Want to see some better Journalism? And some factual info?

Read these articles published by FT:

The west shares the blame for Georgia:
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/95713d6c-6966-11dd-91bd-0000779fd18c.html?nclick_check=1

Why Russia’s response to Georgia was right:
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/7863e71a-689e-11dd-a4e5-0000779fd18c.html?nclick_check=1

Fighting intensifies in South Ossetia (an article that was published the day before the well publicised hostilities started):
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/6e29e178-6498-11dd-af61-0000779fd18c,dwp_uuid=66e078d0-66ca-11dd-808f-0000779fd18c.html

Susan

If I would have know this about the Osetians I would and do support thier position. They should be free to live under whatever government they choose to be apart of. It is a fundemental right of all people to live free of oppression and terrany no matter where they are from and who they are. This goes for the Serbians, Kosovars, Iraqi's and any other naion that lives under an oppressive governmental rule or military rule. However, I think you have me wrong here, I do not know enough about the situation politically in Georgia and Russia to make such a judgement call about who is right and who is wrong. What I can tell you is that I see both sides talking in circles and lets not forget the home grown fighters that are probably fighting to break away from both Russia and Georgia. The major problem that I see now, is that perhaps Russia is now in Georgia proper and should not probably be there, if the Osetians wanted to be apart of Russia then I am sure that the boarders of Georgia and Russia can be re-drawn. But like Iraq there is no Military solution to this problem, it must be done at a negotation table and a treaty must be signed between the two countries involved and that takes trust. The Georgians cannot trust the Russians when Russian tanks are less than 20 miles outside the Capitol City, nor can the Russians trust the Georgians because of the issues at present. It is a messy business, but the leaders of both nations must sit down, try to put differences aside and talk about the future of both nations. One of my favorite actors once said, "There is peace on the other side of war". I just hope for all involve that now that the war has been waged that the illusive peace on the other side is found.

Frankly, I found it kind of strange that as soon as the news on the battle broke off, Russia immediately announced that 2000 were killed in South Ossetia. It happened when Georgians still were in Tskhinvali.

So, how on earth they came up with that number?

Well, interestingly enough, when yesterday the Human Rights watch was finally allowed in the city, all they found was 100 dead bodies, out of which 90% were military personnel and only 10% civilian.

I am really curious what Russia's response would be on that, if any.

Poor Mikheil Saakashvill! Fawned over and
courted by George Bush and lobbyist-cum-McCain advisor Randy Scheunemann,
Saakashvill was deluded into believing the United States would support his
attempts to engage Russia in a turf war over South Ossetia.

Scratch a bit deeper for these other realities: Georgia
has an oil pipeline, the pipeline extends to Iran, and the Bush administration
wants access to it.. The Bush administration continues to operate almost
exclusively to create more profit for oil companies owned by Bush cronies or
adminstration members.

And the hubris John McCain has exhibited by supporting Randy Scheunemann and
engaging in premature discussions with Saakashvill is proof a McCain
administration would serve the same oil-god.

If you look at the face of the KGB Putin, you can see the word INVASION. If KGB Putin said that thousand of Ossetians killed by Georgian soldiers, what is the difference of bombing, killing innocent georgia civilians? Answer me that question KGB Putin.
Georgia, We, in USA and Europe , are always with you. We know that KGB Putin is a damn liar.

Truth: The great thing about your web link and all the different pictures is that any person with a normal brain can count the number of buildings and deduce that more than a couple of hundred people were massacred. If only CNN was as good at reporting, this would all be over and the Georgian people would be hanging their president from the nearest lamp post. Any Georgian commenting on this or any other blog should begin distancing themselves from their government leaders now to avoid the Hitler/Stalin stain or your country's actions.

Where are Franklin and Winston when you need them? Wakeup free world. Putin got the submarine incident wrong, and he didn't get a lot done with the terrorists in the theatre or the Beslan school but you have to give him credit for not buckling under terrorist pressure and, to my knowledge, none of those terrorist are alive today. Let's adopt some of Putin's leadership and regain our respect.

So, what you are saying is that the Kremlin came up with a random number, anticipating that cnn would publish pictures, based on what people would correctly guess the number of people massacred.
woo hoo!!
Forgive me, but given that the Human Rights Watch is an international NON-BIASED organization, I do find it more credible, than the Russian government.

And who do you think won in this war? Russia or Gergia? Putin or Saakashvili? S.Ossetia and Abhazia or Gergia and USA?

Georgia and USA go to a hell!!!!!!!!

Susan, Mang

Re: referendum in South Osetia – you have to understand that this was the manipulation and fake referendum. Did you know that there was another referendum held in South Osetia, where 99% of the population also said they wanted to be a part of Georgia? This was also fake and manipulation.

Just imagine yourself, living in a very poor region, always at risk of war breakout. You are either offered a Russian passport, or youw ill be forced to leave the territory. Russian passport by the way means that you can go to Russia, work there, or get involved in trade activities – thus have a little income to support your family and live in your home. If you do not get a Russian passport, then you will have to live in a shelter in other parts of Georgia and hope for a little compensation from Georgian government. Which option would you go for? Of course most of the people have Russian passports. Now, given the influence and the power of terror over the people, when "OSetian Government" holds a referendum, what results would you expect? – of course people want to join Russia. Another alternative referendum, held by Georgian government – what results would you expect? – of course people said South Osetia is a part of Georgia.

So it is easy to say to respect the opinion of people who live in South Osetia, but how can you really tell what they want? especially when so many people have fled, should noy we count their opnion as well?

Daniel Loh,
I am just saying that Russia is using the argument of "protecting Russian Citizens" to justify its invasion in the country. If Russia wants to protect its citizens, why would they start bombing territories way beyond the conflict zone killing other inocent people? In addition to strategic places, they have bombed populated area – they have bombed a cement factory in Kaspi, which was the main source of income for the majority of the community living there, they bombed a county of Kareli – no strategic place whatsoever, killing other inocent people? And if Russian government really cared for its citizens, would they do what they did in Nordost and Beslan?

More and more people have come to opposition to the Georgian president recently, and I personally really deslike him, I have not voted for him in any of the elections. And I believe that the decision to start military operation in South Osetia was a deadly mistake, despite all of the provokations and explotions that were arranged locally by separatists and by so called peace keepers, Georgia should not have used military forces, causing death of inocent people! But I cannot find any justification for Russia bombing territories outside the conflict zone, shooting at the journalists while they broadcast live outside Gori, when all military operation is ceased, robbing the bank in Gori – should I go on?

Everyone understands it is a game of confflict of interests and US/Russia fight over the control in the region. BUT THERE IS A LIMIT TO EVERYTING! WHY SHOULD INOCENT PEOPLE SUFFER SO MUCH?

It was Russia causing destabilization and death of so many people – respectively we want answers from Russian government!

Well, well....To those americans who mentioned that they are ashamed to be one, I have a simple solution....LEAVE. Simpley move to Russia or Georgia or Iraq. Not western Europe, but to these countries that the US has supposedly destroyed or has given false hope to. Go and support their goverments. Wave their flags, learn their language and live as their people do, not as an american on vacation. Go and live as these people live. Then you won't have to feel the shame. I don't know who is to blame for the conflict between Russia and Georgia. It doesn't really matter now. The damage has been done. Innocents have been lost and relationships between countries have been changed forever. Focus needs to be on ending the conflict, and helping those thousands who are now hungry, injured and homless.

Gal from Georgia

First I would like to extend my sincerest hope that you, your family, and the rest of the good people of Georgia are safe from harm as possible. You and your countrymen stand at a very precurious situation. What I mean is that the South Osetians and the Georgian people as a whole are kind of in a situation that make you all go in a circle. If you look at the United States, Russia, and many others that have been in the same back and forth fight, it seems to be always the same. The innocents always suffer and it is unfortunate, but there is a light at the end of the tunnel. We should never forget how Western Europe was after WWII, after the years of war that they had to endure and how the innocents suffered reguardless of where you came from was evident. They the western Europeans overcame their differences and started to rebuild their countries by hard work and working together as a national body. Finally when the European Union was invented, even though I personally think the EU sometimes treads on individual countries rights, they realized that together they are stronger. Now I am not saying that Russia and the area around the Caspian and Black Seas should make an EU Pact, but all parties should work for the common good, and most importantly for the people of the Eastern European people. You all are on the right track continue to work together with other nations and support your leaders, weather you voted for them or not, to work with other nations in and around your great nation. It is now a time to repair what was lost in the last week or so, I do understand that trust is gained thorugh understanding. Believe me i understand how hard it is to trust the people who you are suppose to be fighting, but there is only one solution and its not at the end of a T-80 tank. Peace will come to you and your country, but dialouge is the only answer to your and other situations in the world. You are a hero for standing up for what you believe and continue to tell the rest of us that look from the outside into your world. I think the rest of the world will stand by a reasonable solutions to your problems, but all sides must try to respect and listen to each other. The Russian government is powerful, but your government is also just as powerful in their own right. Go to your government and tell them that peace can only be the way. This peace will bring what everyone wants and that is a good life, prosperity for the people, and the right to live free of oppression. I hope you stay well and remeber the power of the brain is always stronger than the power of AK-47.

It seems that we all have one thing in common...............we have no say in the games that our governments play. It is our "duty" to die for their fabricated causes. Good luck to all of you.

i give up – don't ever think that you are giving the opinions of a "cross-section" of this country...am so disappointed...grew up with Martin Luther King, Robert Kennedy – was watching tv when....believed then...ok...you win...how completely discouraging...we might as well have let the russian tanks roll over us and bury us in our own soil....do you see those old people who are just so at the end of their strength...those old eastern whatever european peoples who have known so little time of peace and just so much tragedy and violence and war....can you sleep well at night when you don't remind us of this??? i hope – and i'm really not a bad person – that you sleep badly and see the little children, and young, old women and men devastated by the brutality of politics and war....hope you sleep badly.....i sleep very little, and hope i don't ever dream again....

Why nobody says that SOUTH OSSETIA never existed actually?
It was a good invention of Stalin who has forcely brought hudreds of ossets from the north to live in Tskhinvali!!!
And now we say that all that is about tribal thing and that Abkhazs and Ossitians HATE Georgians! In such case they can go and seek better life back in north where they belong, since there is no longer any stalin telling them to stay. This is Georgian land since dawn of times and now because they have Russia backing them they just think it's ok to snap something that its not theirs?!
It would be enough that Russia stirs up something in the region of Akhalkalaki that is populated by Meskhi -turks, that were brought to live there the same way that the ossietians, and there will be one more independent state in the south of Georgia this time. Why not? And then lets think about Crimea..

Russian supporters keep repeating the lie about how many were killed in South Ossetia. Human Rights Watch and South Ossetian doctors at their hospital confirm only 44 dead. Russia says its troops were and are only "peacekeepers." They why didn't Russia stop the Abkhaz military from attacking Georgian troops in the part of Abkhazia that Georgia still controlled? Why weren't they "peacekeeping" then? Abkhazia wasn't even part of Georgia attack on Tskhinvali. And what about the 250,000 ethnic Georgians who were kicked out of Abkhazia? And the 1/3 of S. Ossetia's population thati is ethnic Georgian? Russia didn't protect them. Some "peacekeeping"! And Russia says that they "can't see how Abkhazia and South Ossetia could be part of Georgia after the fighting." Russia killed lots more Chechens and destroyed lots more of Grozny, yet the Chechens are now "happily" part of Russia. If Russia is so set on South Ossetia being independent, they should let North Ossetia become independent and create a new independent Ossetia.

THIS CONFLICT HAD BEEN PLANNED LONG AGO BY RUSSIANS.

START FROM THE BEGINNING.

OSSETIA IS NOT THE BEGINNING.

RUSSIA'S MILITARY PROVOCATIONS ARE.

RUSSIA HAD ITS 58th ARMY AMASSED AT THE BORDER FOR MONTHS AND MILITARY EXPERTS HAD BEEN SAYING IT WAS LIKELY THAT THEY WERE GOING TO ATTACK GEORGIA IN AUGUST.

WHICH IS WHAT HAPPENED.

THEY WANT TO HAVE GEORGIA AS A MOSCOW'S SATELLITE.

AND IT IS JUST THE BEGINNING.

RUSSIA TODAY=GERMANY BEFORE WORLD WAR 2.

ANGRY. DIRTY. READY FOR ANYTHING.

STOP THEM BEFORE IT IS TOO LATE.

Everyone's speaking about historical roots of the conflict – but they are so complicated, that it would be easy to justify anyone's actions – both russian and georgian. But the question is how to stop the conflict. I totally agree with Jeffery Harrison, and both sides are to be blamed in the conflict. Georgia – for attacking Tshinvali and murdering civilians ( whatever the number is – even if there are 30 people dead – it is already a henocide). Russia – for being not able to find another way of ceasing georgian fire but to sending tanks in Ossetia. First step to bringing to stop this conflict is to realize this idea of Jeffery Harrison. Unfortunately i find it difficult for people watching CNN, BBC or FOX news. Surf internet for impartial information!

Congratulations to Russians, they just killed the country, Georgia does not exists as an independent country anymore, it’s a part of Russia now. The only question remaining: who is next? Which country will disappear from the map tomorrow?

God help this moron, M.Saakashvili, who don,t know what to do with the new found oil wealth than to spend it arms with intention of fighting the Russians.
I saw him on CNN, with a world Map, showing that his troops has perfume well and "he shut down over 10 Russian Jet."
Every time I see this man on TV, Only God knows how I feel about this Moron and blood sucker, Liars. Who Voted for this big mouth?
I saw him hiding under trash, the Russians need to arrest him and put him on trial for murderer.

If you wish to know the thruth and not the unstopping lies of USA "democratic" mass media, you can check here: http://blogs.mail.ru/mail/shakhidi_tabriz/5EE041CCAF5ABD8.html
From my side I can add that I am totally dissapointed by the country I thought was really the stronghold of democracy. As I see your truth can be directed just like anywhere in Third World countries. Public opinion is your toy. CNN you're great manipulator and faithfull soldier of establishment. Congratulations!!

I незнаю about what you speak and that discuss, but I to you wish to tell: Why of Russia always do an aggressor, look who and with whom is at war who to whom helps with wars... The USA all twentieth century wages wars and have entered into twenty first too with wars. These are unessentially direct military operations, but also wars which you will organise in the countries, when because of the USA случаються civil wars. Open eyes on it and будте objective in questions of military conflicts. Russia have clamped in a corner, with us do not wish to communicate as equals and what to do to us in such situation??? Only to turn a back to ours so назывемым to friends and to search understanding in other directions, for example in the east, in China, in the South America, but you tell that it badly... That without understanding you lower the Iron Curtain and untie холоднцю war. In advance thanks for understanding.

to Dmitry Zlokazov:

Why one country should take a tolerant position when the other one is killing it's citizens?? Don't you think that such country doesn't have the right for existanse? Do YOU want to be the citizen of such country?

to Amiran:

Georgia stopped existing as an independent country when their top establishemnt started getting the salary from USA.

August 18th, 2008 2141 GMT

Congratulations to Russians, they just killed the country, Georgia does not exists as an independent country anymore, it’s a part of Russia now. The only question remaining: who is next? Which country will disappear from the map tomorrow?

The answer: what country will disappear from a card of the world after Yugoslavia, Iraq, Avganimtana, and now probably Iran and Venesuelly with Cuba, and of some the countries of Africa... Спрсите it at the US president and your allies!

Here listen not to all opinions??? And how a freedom of speech??? My message have removed specially??? Why???

THIS CONFLICT HAD BEEN PLANNED LONG AGO BY RUSSIANS.

START FROM THE BEGINNING.

OSSETIA IS NOT THE BEGINNING.

RUSSIA’S MILITARY PROVOCATIONS ARE.

RUSSIA HAD ITS 58th ARMY AMASSED AT THE BORDER FOR MONTHS AND MILITARY EXPERTS HAD BEEN SAYING IT WAS LIKELY THAT THEY WERE GOING TO ATTACK GEORGIA IN AUGUST.

WHICH IS WHAT HAPPENED.

THEY WANT TO HAVE GEORGIA AS A MOSCOW’S SATELLITE.

AND IT IS JUST THE BEGINNING.

RUSSIA TODAY=GERMANY BEFORE WORLD WAR 2.

ANGRY. DIRTY. READY FOR ANYTHING.

STOP THEM BEFORE IT IS TOO LATE.

The answer: Boris, tell that has occurred on кавказе? You though understand or all is mass media to you brains have obscured? Why anybody from you will not look at this situation with друной the party? Or there are countries which can to do all that would be desirable them, to be at war with all successively, and to interfere with internal affairs of the countries with демократически chosen by the government and who that cannot step also a step??? You look whom support: at first the taliban for war against the USSR (despite their sights), and now till now with them be at war but already on the other hand. Now from Saakashvili who only also does that прикрываеться by the government of the USA. And all has begun with that that is necessary that elections выйграл for Dik Chejni. Its rating has grown??? YES!!! Представте what victim for the sake of elections!!! And on September, 11th what for was? It have organised to start input of armies to Iraq and Afghanistan. And where weapons of mass destruction in Iraq? NO!!! And where Osama Ben Laden??? Is not present and НЕБЫЛО NEVER!!! Or investigation receives money in vain))). And now there is malicious Russia incited against no all world, your government has invented it that you were afraid and taxes paid without being indignant for military needs. Download and look a film "Spirit of the age" be not too lazy with a translation from Russian. And about Georgia, will understand later that caused the beginning of aggression against Ossetia. If certainly will not have time to copy history under itself...

joe August 19th, 2008 226 GMT

God help this moron, M.Saakashvili, who don,t know what to do with the new found oil wealth than to spend it arms with intention of fighting the Russians.
I saw him on CNN, with a world Map, showing that his troops has perfume well and “he shut down over 10 Russian Jet.”
Every time I see this man on TV, Only God knows how I feel about this Moron and blood sucker, Liars. Who Voted for this big mouth?
I saw him hiding under trash, the Russians need to arrest him and put him on trial for murderer.

I am glad to such relation and understanding of an uneasy problem, at you very much not correctly present a situation on кавказе, but there are people seeing the truth and can distinguish it from lie of thanks! It is possible to learn whence you where live? I from Russia.

Think whose hands Georgia against Ossetia and against Russia is at war! Russia and Georgia always were fraternal people and such remain. The same касаеться and the people of Russia and Ukraine!!! It is just necessary to forget a little the USA that oil and natural resources is more expensive than a life of people. And all will rise on the places!

Николай , I was always wandering why Putin is so popular in his country, now I see: you guys are ready to justify anything he does. Where were you when 8 years ago he (Putin) sent tanks to crash Chechnya? Tens of thousand Chechens were killed , they were Russian citizens right? Now Russia is protecting “their citizens”. Where is the logic? Russia does not care about Ossetia , Abkhazia or any other small neighbor nations, all Russia wants : restore the Soviet Union then move to eastern Europe. Russia does not want "friendly" neighbors , it needs “slave” neighbors, unfortunately that is the reality…

In the Chechen Republic insurgents-Arabian mercenaries with whom now wages war of the USA in Afghanistan, their our federal armies вытеснели from the territory were at war. All who were in insurgents ranks in those days, now protect the republic from mercenaries, and at them it is excellent получаеться. Ask Chechens when to live better, now or at Sheriyat which to them was imposed by mercenaries. Into the account restoration of the USSR, nobody wishes it to restore, simply we wish to protect the interests as you protect them in the countries Latin америки and now in the near and average east and all. And about protection of the small people I will tell so: why the government of the USA conducts an aggressive policy and wages wars, and you do not notice it, but persistently prove to yourself and all world that Russia is a malicious bear. In the countries to old Europe objectively look at an event, and at you is not present. In mass media at you information hunger, show all only as it is necessary to you. And with what all has begun in Georgia? From a kind word of the USA, it is normal??? You bombed Yugoslavia, Iraq, Afghanistan. Now wish to get into Georgia.

Russia's double standards in "protecting" their citizens (i.e.in Chechnya and Ossetia) are similar to US double standards applied worldwide. Georgia however seems stupid enough to believe that as a NATO applicant they get support to start a war with Russia? Both sides seem crazy and untrustworthy.

Georgia and all republics of the former USSR, and Russian empire were a part of empire voluntary, except for Baltic. Some states did not exist at all. Georgia has come to structure of Russia when Turks send them to cut, and would cut out everything, but Russia has released Georgia from invasion the Turk, that has rescueed the Georgian from a genocide. All republics always lived peacefully while to them have not paid attention of the USA, with their desire to be enriched with natural resources. Always Russia protected people addressed for the help, Russia has entered armies not against the Georgian, and against policy of the USA, in 51 state of Georgia))). Everywhere where the army of the USA – chaos, Russia so when did not do has visited! The USSR has released almost all Europe from nazis, and now speak it badly! Now Russia wishes to be friends, but to us turn a back.

To Nikolai

How many USA troops are presented in Georgia?

To Nail:

Well, I don't think that aggression is an adequate reply to aggression, but, to be honest, I envy israelis – they feel really protected, after their government attacked Lebanon to resque one soldier.

To M.G. Gantenbein, Henry:

You are so revolted by the fact, that not thousands, but only tens of civilians were killed in South Ossetia. So, in your opinion, Russia would better have to wait till georgian artillery had destroyed every single building in Tshinvali, and only when the number of murdered women, children and men would reach the grade of 1000, Russia would gain right to act?

You call Russia a wild and barbarian bear. But PEOPLE WERE BEING KILLED. CHILDREN WERE BEING KILLED. And the ones that survived said thanks to Russian soldiers. After that gratitude, I don't want to know anything about international law, if it gives rights to people, such as Mikhail Saakashvili to kill children. Barbarians are politicians who let murderer stay unpunished.

yes, they were, and their families have my deepest sympathies.
what you forgot to mention is that it became clear that the Georgian response was provoked by continuous shooting from the South Ossetian side. However idiotic move politically, it was a self-defense more than an aggression.
I am not revolted by the fact that only tens of civilians were killed, I am revolted by the fact that Russia and soulth ossetia shamelessly lied to the international community. The happenings of these past several days actually showed who real aggressors are and who is capable of committing atrocities - with Russians spitting on the whole world by utterly disregarding the plan they signed, and south ossetians looting and killing ethnic georgian civilians on proper georgian territory.

Interesting to see the shift in opinion with the passing of time in this thread as the facts came out. I especially enjoy seeing how the folks with their hot headed & attacking comments became silent.

I have not heard of any American military action in Georgia against Russia. Only the facilitation of humanitarian action.

Talk is cheap and if I was to listen to all the country leaders that talk smack from time to time about my country then my feelings about artificially creating more 3rd world countries would be much stronger, but we ignore their rantings and expect the same consideration in return for our leader.

How may folks in this post showing attitude live in a country that has seen support via humanitarian, financial aid, etc in a time of need? Hurricane, earthquake, some disaster, terrorist action, self induced disaster, military intrusion, medical/biological issue, farming improvement needs to feed your population, etc. That support in the end becomes the American tax payer’s burden? I expect every single one.

It is obvious that it takes a minimum of 2 opponents to have a fight. Any time there is a big kid versus a little kid the big kid will catch flak as a bully. Just don't forget who the biggest kid on the block is!

Continuous shooting's been continuing there for last 16 years. It's Caucasus, dozens of nations live there, some of them have brotherly love, some of them hate each other and kill each other for centuries. And fortunately or not, but we will never be able to define an aggressor and a victim in these numerous conflicts. Since XIXth century another part is played – part of a peacekeeper, which is soloed by Russia. I do not maintain that Russian Empire, lately -USSR, and now Russian Federation has always played this part well. But for centuries it was and still remains the only peacekeeper in the region. And as you can know, for the last century there have been only three conflicts: Nagorno-Karabakh, Chechnya and present conflict in Georgia. This IS a good figure for Caucasus.
I do share your indignation by lies of Russia and South Ossetia. But there are always a lot of terrible lies in a wartime. Don't you want to say that Georgian statements are crystal pure. Or do you consider upright to keep silence about Georgian attack on South Ossetia (on the 8th of august there was not a single word abot georgian attack both on BBC and CNN, but both of the channels were ready to launch the reporting on the conflict by showing russian tanks ridin to Tshinvali, which already has been ruined).

Me and millions of russians are disillusioned in objectivity and honesty of western media. And that is a fact.

I will tell you one thing ( I LOVE MY COUNTRY BUT, FEAR MY GOVERMENT)

Oh, dear, you have a lot to learn, if you think that Russian has been a peacekeeper in the region. And you most certainly have to have your head examined if you call Chechnya a success story.
It may come to you as a surprise, but the caucasian nations felt and still do nothing but a disdain for the Russian Empire, a.k.a. the Soviet Union, a.k.a. Russia. I am a cultural anthropologist and have studied the region for some time now, and there is an abundance of material supporting my statement.

as for being disillusioned in objectivity and honesty of western media, are you aware that the Russian media is controlled by the government? remember politkovskaia? that is how really honest and outspoken journalists are dealt in Russia. and THAT is a fact.

A couple of more words on wars in the Caucasian region - according to the historical documents, and there are plenty, real wars and especially territorial disputes started in caucasus AFTER Russia got involved. Not only Russian empire was not a peacekeeper in the region as you claimed, but it actually instigated tensions and conflicts between the different nations. as an example, there was not historical precedence of a dispute/conflict between ethnic abkhasians and ethnic georgians before Russian rule was established in 1803.

After Russia started its notorious Caucasian expansion in the beginning of 19th century, any military confrontation in Caucasus either directly or indirectly involved Russia. Does it sound like a peacekeeper to you?

Why all this lies in America? Ok, US is in a economic crisis, but it doesnt justify any killing or dirty media war. Stop, US world leadership has finished. It is a goos strategy to make dolar rise up, but it is dirty and this is not a game...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVNblG9PJMk&e
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5idQm8YyJs4

How can all the Russians listen to Russian Propaganda?? Should Georgia give passports to Chechens, and than defend it's citizens??
It's ridicoulos and whole world sees it. It's 21 century, everything is documented. Russian actions are not justified. Killing and destroying Georgian people and infrustructure makes Georgians to hate Russians more than ever!!

Many have pointed out that this is a complicated part of the world, and I know next to nothing about it., but even the biased American press reported that Georgia attacked first. It was a dumb thing to do. I do not think even Bush was stupid enough to give the green light for this. The Russians will leave Georgia when they get ready. In my opinion, they are making a point. "Don't do this again!" They may well be sending a larger message: "We don't like the US putting a missile shield in Poland." I have no military expertise, but putting a missile defense in Poland to guard against terrorists makes little sense. Whatever our government says, Poland regards as a self-defense move. At least the Poles are honest. I remember the Cuban missile crisis. We Americans were ready to go to war rather that allow Russian missiles in Cuba. I see little difference between offensive and defensive missile sites; the latter can be converted. I understand why Russia is nervous about it. We certainly were back in 1962.
Finally, when the 9/11 attack occurred, Putin was the first to offer not only condolences to us here in America–he even offered help in the form of letting America use some its military bases. This administration over these past seven and a half years has squandered what good wil we had in the world; it is simply incredible.

Николай , I know history of Georgia, yes that is true 220 years ago Georgia has asked for help to Russia to protect from Iran and Turkey. Russia did provide protection but the same time seized the opportunity, abolished as a country and Georgia became as southern province of Russia. I don’t think that’s really “friendly” help. And Soviet Union, please don’t say that Georgia has volunteered to join it. After “Bolshevik” revolution in 1917, Georgia has regained his independence, but it has lasted only 3 years. In 1921 It was that maniac Stalin (which unfortunately happens to be a Georgian) decided to send “Bolshevik” army and occupy the country. He did that just to justify his existence and position in Russia’s central committee of communist party. This is not my opinion, these are the facts , this is real history . But let’s just leave the history alone. You are saying “Russia wishes to be friends” , that’s great, that’s exactly what Georgia and rest of the worlds wants , but friendship suppose to be based on respect , right? I do not think we can use the word “respect” to describe how the Russia treats the Georgia last 15 years, continuously punishing and humiliating in any possible way as a country and as a nation just because of Georgia wants to join European Union. I know something about Russia, I used to live in Moscow back in early 80’s for couple of years as a student. I know how rich Russian culture is, literature, music, science, you name it. I know how bright my Russian friends were, and not only my friends. I know how significant was Russia’s role to defeat the Nazis in world war 2. Having 1/6 of earth’s territory (put Mexico, US and Canada together, Russia is still bigger) , having almost unlimited natural recourses and huge intellectual human recourses, in my opinion Russia has to be one of the best and one of the most desirable countries to live on this planet. But unfortunately that’s not the case today. Instead of creating real market economy and modern industry , creating free democratic society, Russia is busy with intimidating small neighbors. Entire world has witnessed and finally understood what Russia’s real intentions were after occupying tiny helpless neighboring country of Georgia. No one believes that Russia went there just to protect the civilians; Russian intentions were much far going. They proved it after repeatedly deceiving entire world with number of casualties, destroying country’s infrastructure more then 100km from the conflict zone, setting fires to national parks and denying to neighboring countries to help Georgians put these fires away and list goes on and on. The only countries supporting Russia now with this matter are: Venezuela (with their lunatic president Chavez), Belarus, Iran and Palestinian organization “Hezbollah”. I think Russia deserves much better then this. If Russia gives up the ambitions to recreate the empire, starts treating neighbors with real respect, recognizes their rights to be real free nations, gives up authoritarian regime , joins the worlds free market economy , opens up for rest of the world that would be better for everybody , I mean for everybody including Russia.

In reading through many of the comments, one stands out–that of Stone Cynic:

"It seems that we all have one thing in common……………we have no say in the games that our governments play. It is our “duty” to die for their fabricated causes. Good luck to all of you."

The greatest failure in the Western World, and I put Russia here too, is the church ever since Constantine. Some will understand what I mean here, and it is of little use to explain for those who won't. The church is the only entity that could have been large enough to check runaway nationalism, but it hasn't. Instead, she has reinforced nationalism and, consequently, the war that flows from it.

Military investigation has reported on a provocation preparing in Georgia 01:05? News? Authorities of Georgia prepare for the nearest days, probably, on Thursday, large-scale provocation. Not named source in the Russian military investigation has told to all large Russian news agencies, that divisions of the Georgian defensive department assume to use for this purpose remains of the military men who have remained during operations.? Above remains corresponding work is spent ostensibly documentary to show quantity of victims among the peace population and mockery and cruelty of the Russian military men? It has emphasized.? Today from area Burn in Tbilisi send three refrigerators up to the top loaded by remains which within last days gathered the Georgian divisions?. As he said, for storage of bodies of victims the ice made by a factory was used? Coca-cola? Near burn. Has guarded the representative of military investigation and that fact, that till now the Georgian party practically did not make burial places of victims though the Russian peacemakers and югоосетинскими authorities of Georgia for these days had been transferred numerous remains of military men.? It would be desirable to warn, what these remains at their detection were fixed фото-and a video shooting? The source of RIA has told? News?.? If they will be presented by the Georgian party in other kind, it can strike rather painfully on organizers of provocation?.

m. G. Gantenbein if was that with Политковской... You look that creates your government. Having killed thousand citizens in towers twins in Manhattan, only for that to fall down all to Iraq and to continue in Afghanistan. Now your government hands Саакашвили has untied war on caucasus. And for what? And to continue financing wars worldwide and that on elections has won Дик Чейни. You never admit that the president of your country was the African... How many peace inhabitants have been killed in Iraq, Afghanistan, Yugoslavia, Vietnam... And it is enough such examples. You conduct aggression all over the world and already for a long time, and speak that that about the Chechen Republic which was and is a part of Russia. Think if you conduct какието researches and save the facts about Russia, save up the facts about the USA all over again.

Amiran!
Georgia was included voluntary into structure of Russia!!! Stalin was the terrible person!!! Bad people suffice at all people! But now we speak about ostensibly aggression of Russia against Georgia, and it not so. What would make your government if the army of other country has started to shoot your peacemakers in a back? For example if the Cuban army has begun approach to your base in Гуантаномо, and to shoot in an emphasis of yours the soldier? You would enter armies to a cube would crush army cubes all... CORRECTLY??? So we have made too most having protected the the soldier!!! And anybody would not tell that army of the USA an aggressor! But so why all over the world double standards? And your government speaks about friendship... But persistently as dialogue carries on with the enemy

'You call Russia a wild and barbarian bear. But PEOPLE WERE BEING KILLED. CHILDREN WERE BEING KILLED. And the ones that survived said thanks to Russian soldiers"
says who? the russian media? which couldn't come up with anything better than to show movies about pres. Saakashvili in dark colors and comparing him to Hitler? Let me tell you something, that's exactly kind of propaganda that hitler conducted against the jews in the early 30s. They would show short movies in dark colors showeing jews as evil people. another parallel, putin gave russian passports to osetian and abkhazian people (by the way, may were forced to take the russian citizenship) to justify his aggression agains georgia later. wasn't hitler protecting his citizens when invading austria, poland?
as for the media, look at what the russian media did. it spread the information about thousands of dead people, but suddenly the numbers have been reduced now what, 10 times? more?
Do you know how many ethnic Osetians live now on the territory of georgia? many more than in the South Osetia. they speak their language, and lead a much better life then osetians under russia.
as for how the war started, georgian villages in the area had been repeatedly attacked by so called russian peacekeepers and the separatists over the past years, again and again. didn't georgia have the right to protect its citizens just like russia has done?
why does nobody think about the fact that any country that has ever been under the russian rule (eastern europe countries, georgia) is ready to do everything in order to escape its influence? may be

Russians have no idea about truth, what is happening in Georgia , as Putin managed to grab the media under his controll, neither do they think wtat is the reason of acting Georgia or Russia the way they did and are doing. The thing is, Russia will never hand control over Caucasus to West....this is the bachground of their so called defending ossecians from Georgia! (If you go to north ossetia, which is part of Russia, you can hardly meet people speaking their native language!) So dear Russians look deep in your hearts and think , does Russia have any right to invade Georgia? does Russia have any right to take Georgian territory (their greediness is out of any bounderys!) Will you justify if someone stronger than you come to your house armed saying you mistreat your family member, or neighbour , so he should deffend them and stay in your house, kill a person or two, distroy whatever he wishes and take anything he likes? enlarge the situation-this is what is happening now! Force is the only thing Russians respect, it has been their mentality through centuries! Civilization is far from thier minding, but what should those people do hwo want to join the civilized world????????????

SHAME ON YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It is impossible to search on bones of people for an output to the Caspian natural resources, and an output to Black sea for the bases. Than now the government of the USA also is engaged. And who following? Everywhere where you wish to put the military bases, your pawns which as small dogs sit, barking it is a lot of and to sense are not present, will bite and will escape in bushes and on road also in a toilet descends under itself.

It's amazing to see how brainwashed the Russians on this forum are. It seems that the fact that Russian media are entirely under the Kremlin's control helps a lot in keeping them from real information. It seems that political assassinations like Politkovskaya and Litvinenko are paying off! There is no free and independent media any more in Russia.

Because if there were free media Russians would know that there was no mass murder on civilians by Georgian forces in the night of August 7th. However there was ethnic cleansing of Georgians by the Russian army helped by Ossetian criminal groups just thereafter. South Ossetia which was populated by more than 40% with Georgians is now officially free of Georgians.

Why would Russia do that? Very simple, they hope that by creating trouble in the Caucasus western European countries will refuse Georgia into NATO. They hope that Georgians will get rid of Saakashvili and that Georgia will return under Russian protection. If this were to happen, it would mean a strategic victory for Russia.

To avoid that West European countries need to allow Georgia into NATO A.S.A.P. and the Georgians need to stay united against the illegal occupation of their country.

dear Sir/Madam

Try to moderate the pain in people going through war. Try to moderate the aggression in my country. Try to moderate the feeling when I see and hear my world ruining with brutal hands and future of my children under big question mark! Believe I am more than moderate whan reading and hearing those comments about "brainwashed" people!!!

M.G. Gantenbein,
Thank you very much, but you'd better examine your eyesight – I didn't call Chechnya a success story, neither would I call a success story any conflict leading to deaths of people.
I am afraid that your "abundance of material" needs to be urgently re-checked, or you would become slightly unqualified anthropologist. I am not going to introduce you references on historical documents, as I am absolutley sure that there are plenty of articles confirming both yours and my point of view. You see, there are quiet a lot of caucasians amongst my friends – Daghestani, Ossetians, Balkars, Armenians, and none of them disdains Russia. Neither do their relatives living in their Motherland. Neither do their friends. I'd say more – that ones who live in Russia self-identify first of all as Russians. Their grandfathers were heroes of WWII, and they are proud of this.

Dear cultural anthropologist, don't remind me of most of russian media impartiality. I know that perfectly well, and knowing this I spend much more time on western media sites and russian indepedent ones, oh yes, there is independent media in Russia. But what I've seen on BBC and CNN, really dissapointed me. So, ask yourself a question, if you gleaned the story around this conflict. How many americans and europeans know, that S. Ossetia was the first one to accuse Georgian military of ethnic cleansing? But, when 2 days later Georgia made the same charge, accusing Russian troops, this statement immediately appeared on creeping lines of western channels. There are loads of these little details, but exactly these trifles form public opinion. Two weeks ago I wouldn't believe you, but now I have no doubt about the fact that such statements as "the caucasian nations felt and still do nothing but a disdain for the Russian Empire" may take place in scientific works of english-speaking "historians". If you want to know the truth, take a ride to Caucasus and ask people there, what do they think of Russian actions. I've been there, and I know their attitude better then your lecturer.

Speaking about facts... Well, to call any statement a fact, you have to be armed by provements of this statement. I am afraid I have to refute your "fact" – hundreds of journalists still work in Russia and are not afraid of criticizing Russian government and personally Putin in a quiet tough rhetoric. And KGB, if it still exists, never knocked their doors.

How can You Judge Russia and Ossetia if You See and have access to
only One side of that conflict?
You see only US TV and Media!
BUT they LIE and protect only their gov's asses and interests in
georgian ubnormal and unhuman leader because they made a bid on him.
They Totally blocked Any other world opinions.
So when people see only that Lie info all over again – they're for
sure can't think Clear and Right – they think and eat what they got
from Media and Politics etc...
Nobody think about nightly killed ossetians. – But You?
Nobody want to know that not Russians but Svilli broked his peace
promisses and ordered a night civilians Bombing!
BTW – it was at Olimpic openings night in hope to blitzcreig war
win...
And Russians start protect deadly attacked civilians and peacekeepers
ONLY after 16 hours after Sakhashvilli ordered " Kill them all !"

Would You like to fill bombs, bullets, Grads, mines and snipers at
Your own Family 16 hours long before someone help You? Where were US
EU helps???
And don't You ask a God to save Your Mom, Dad and kids from georgian
troops armed by US etc...?

So Please don't Judge if You listen only One side of any
conflict(especially if that Side is Money/Miltary/Politicaly
interested in...)

Sam (from The Netherlands),

Yes we are brainwashed, furthermore, you forgot to call us brainwashed bears and barbarians. Do you, yourself, believe in existance of Evil Empire in XXI century? My advice to you, Sam, don't divide the world on white and black pieces. Truth is always somewhere at the middle...

Poor georgians... they didn't wish to harm anyone, and then that ugly wild russian bear came and crashed their peacefull tanks and artillery. NATO, please protect this inoffensive, democratically elected georgian government. They suffer russian invasion so much, poor things ='(

Russia, Georgia, or the U.S. is the least of the matter.
Innocent civilians should not be endangered. Period. Georgia is like a wild dog that provoked a wolf. Russia was a wolf pack (USSR) that now roams alone because of its hunger for blood. Well, the US is an artist playing a role of an angel. But when the role is finish, you will remember unnecessary lost of lives of innocent men, women, and children in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Sorry guys, our comment does not count in a world that values guns more than the lives of people. Imagine that; in fact countries probably spend more or so called national defense and military defense, than on hunger, aids, and other life threatening issues.
Now we gather on a blog, getting mad and upset about a war we did not choose or start. Not I, remind me to hug the next Georgian, Russian I see, well maybe kiss.

lol, "conference given by the presidents of Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Estonia and Ukraine — and of course, Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili." – conference "U.S. projects" =))))

Poor Americans … you have no truth, CNN propagation eats your brain ;)

Yes, KGB does not knock anyone's door anymore; it waits at the door with a gun in its hand and shoots people.

And yes, you did not call Chechnya success story, you just implied that Caucasians would kill each other without Russian interference, citing Chechen war as an example. You did forget to mention however that Chechen war was between Russians and Chechens, and Russian army mercilessly flattened the whole country, killing hundreds of thousands of people.

As for disdain for Russians, please re-read carefully what I wrote - I referred to Russian Empire, the Soviet Union, and Russia, meaning the government, and the Russian Rule, not the population.

you can disregard the historical material as biased, but you can not disregard the Russian literature of the 19th century, Tolstoy for instance, which is a very accurate account of the Russian expansion in the Caucuses.

Western media, especially BBC, from the very beginning reported Russian and the South Ossetian outcry about the genocide. Accuracy of this statement becomes doubtful as international organizations investigate the matter. Of course it would have helped if Russian and SO side let media and investigating international organizations in the conflict zone, which for some reason is not happening.
Maybe it is because they have nothing to support their statement on genocide, just like the vastly exaggerated number of killed civilians.

This is my last post, your possible response(s) notwithstanding. I am open to a constructive argument, but to respond to accusation that I read only biased historical material, and insulting my ability to research, as well as sarcastically defensive statements like 'poor georgians they suffer so much', does not make sense to me.
Yes, Georgians suffer. There are 160,000 displaced people currently in Georgia, driven out from their by Russian Army and South Ossetians. You choose not to acknowledge it, and it is your right.
I just have no interest in getting engaged into fruitless argument with you.

I will never trust Russia not in my heart ..The Russian will always evil empire !!! period...look at the small country like Georgia and it was belong to them and their country ..Hey Bear keep ur nose out of it and it belong to Geogrian people ..Look the Russia helping building Iran nuclear plan and that why they knew they both are sucidal @$#$$%%%^head...

Николай , Georgia has never ever voluntarily joined to Russia, that’s a fact. I do not know what they teach in Russia or what’s Russian media says, but ignoring the historical facts, rewriting history books, that’s a Russian way of presenting the history and if you want to believe it, it’s your right.
And last thing I want to say: unfortunate things happen, what happened between Georgians, Ossetians and Abkhazians in 1991-1992 was bad. All sides made mistakes, but, when these people live together for hundreds (possibly thousand) years together without any serious conflict for centuries , I am sure they can find common ground and reconcile their issues, but Russia has to leave, give these people opportunity to solve their own problems themselves. Russia is not peacekeeper or problem solver in Georgia, it’s the other way around, they are the source of the problem and until they remain in Georgia, there will be no peace. I hope some day Russians will understand, what they have done to Georgia was very wrong…. but … what I see , it’s not going to happen any time soon.

Thank you Sam (from The Netherlands), thank you M.G. Gantenbein, I think I am done here too.

by the way, you mentioned Stalin – he was Georgian (Stalin's real surname was Djugashvili) with the most cruel Beria, they both killed soo many peope – maybe aggressive behavior is the national feature of Georgians?
Georgians don't like Osetians and Abkasians, they consider them as agressive and stupid,, these small nations fighted for independence always. and Georgians always suppressed them.
what Georgians made at the beginning of the Olympic Games – just unbelievable..))) of course Russians are not angels, but Georgians were really crazy.. Saakashvili is a great speaker (as he was lawer – lawers and politicians are brilliant in any propaganda...
poor USA was so unexpectedly stopped that they agreed to pay to greedy Poland soo much...))
Everything is so clear now.. USA had to choose less agressive and stupid stooge at least... as now they have to support this lying governent...))) i'm really sorry for USA politicians..)) the whole world is laughing at this situation.. double standards are soo clear now.

The Russians will leave when there are no more toilet seats, rugs, and alcohol to steal. The Russians look like the Iraqies when they flet Kuwait with their loot – a bunch of thugs.

I can assume some of the post here are from Russians that are being paid to attack the internet and leave their false propaganda statements.

yeah baby! =) be afraid of us ;) we are wild angry bears and we are have nuclear bombs for all americans =) we are the mad mauhaha

Dear Sam (from The Netherlands),
Do you really believe that you understand the situation better through your "democratic" sources than we, poor brainwashed Russians, who compare Russian, Georgian and West sites and blogs and get direct stories from our friends in the regions?
"There is no free and independent media any more in Russia" – My congratulations, you must be a pro in Russian media and blog space, isn't it? Do you study it in Dutch?

Russia is sending some very loud and frightening messages to the whole world and Georgia is the unlucky recipient of their messages. The first message is that democracy will not be allowed in their part of the world. The second message is that murder and plunder is acceptable and will not be stopped. What Putin and Medvedev’s Russia has done in Georgia makes Hitler seem like the nice guy of the 20th century.

Let it be clear to everyone, the Russian decision to invade, pillage, and plunder Georgia was planned meticulously over several months. The little region of Georgia, known as South Ossetia, about the size of one of our state’s counties, including many Russian paid mercenaries, started firing on the Georgians. The Georgians had a responsibility to protect their citizens in their own country. The swift invasion of Georgia within a few hours of the start of hostilities is clear proof the Russian army was long-prepared and fully mobilized for this operation. Further several thousand troops and tanks were brought into the other small region of Georgia, known as Abkhazia, in May 2008, despite the protests of the Georgian government. The Russians said they were “peacekeepers.”
What have the Russians done since their swift invasion of Georgia? They have bombed Georgian cities and villages, including residential areas, roads, bridges, the railway lines, and the international seaport, throughout the entire country, not just in the region of Ossetia. There are about 160,000 Georgian civilians homeless without food and shelter, many having their houses burnt, family members arbitrarily shot in the head, raped, and possessions stolen by the Russians. Although the Russians signed a ceasefire they have not left the country but continue to perpetrate crimes against humanity and advance on the capital.

Nothing will dim Georgian ambitions for freedom, they have been run over, by Russians, Mongols, Turks, many times throughout their country's history and still remain intact.

One more comment regarding the Russian land grab in Georgia, yes it is a land grab. Everyone take a look at the map, Russia was recently awarded the 2014 Olympics in Sochi. Did I mention Sochi is about 10-15 miles from the Georgian region of Abkhazia? How convenient. It does take several years to build infrastructure in a newly annexed region. How clever and symbolic of Mr. Putin to choose the opening day of the Beijing Olympics to invade Georgia and start destroying the whole country......

In July 2008, Russian government hackers mounted coordinated assaults on Georgian government, media, banking and transportation sites. Known as distributed denial of service, the attacks employed multiple computers to flood networks with millions of simultaneous requests, overwhelming servers and crippling Web sites. The Russian (FSB) hackers shut down the Web site of Georgian President Saakashvili and defaced the Georgian parliament site with images of Adolf Hitler. Some Internet-security experts believe that this FSB ‘initiative’ marks the first time a known cyberattack has coincided with a ground war.

Then in the beginning of August 2008, ethnically Georgian villages "came under tremendous bombardment from the South Ossetians," says William Dunbar, who was a correspondent for Russia Today, a Kremlin-funded television channel that promotes pro-Russian views. At the same time, South Ossetian officials evacuated thousands of women and children to safety in Russia, a move Georgian officials interpreted as preparations for war. When Dunbar tried to file a report on the shelling and evacuations, his Russian editors “weren't interested” and he was subsequently fired from his job. On August 7, 2008, the armed forces of Georgia responded to the bombardment and Georgia's minister for reintegration, Temuri Yakobashvili, arrived in Tskhinvali for talks on the future of South Ossetia. They were supposed to include his Russian opposite number, Yuri Popov, and Ossetian leaders. But the only other person there was a Russian general, Marat Kulakhmetov. Mr. Yakobashvili says the Russian general told him that the South Ossetian leader, Eduard Kokoity, had left. The Georgian minister then phoned Mr. Popov, and the Russian replied that he was stranded on the roadside 20 miles away with a flat tire. "I asked him about the spare and he said that was flat, too," says Mr. Yakobashvili, an account Mr. Popov confirms.

The Ossetian capital was almost a ghost town by then, Mr. Yakobashvili says. He asked the Russian general what he would advise Georgia do in response to the shelling by South Ossetians. The answer: "Order a unilateral cease-fire and don't respond." In the car on the way home, Mr. Yakobashvili phoned that advice to Georgian President Saakashvili. By the time he got back to the Georgian capital of Tbilisi, the president was on TV announcing such a ceasefire and no-response order. But as you all know, the very next day, the Russian Army invaded Georgia anyway, attacking and killing largely civilians. The writings on unexploded bombs included (quote) “This is for NATO,” “This is for America” and “This is for Bush,” but not something like “This is for South Ossetia” – suggesting that the Georgia’s interest in the NATO membership rather than the longstanding conflict with South Ossetia may be the main reason for the well-prepared Russian invasion.

This invasion (using a large, overwhelming force) is very similar to the 1956 Russian invasion of Hungary and the 1968 Russian invasion of Czechoslovakia. Now, after 52 (Hungary) or 40 (Czechoslovakia) years, the main effect of those two earlier invasions is a very deep hatred of Russians among Czechs, Slovaks and Hungarians – in other words, you really don’t want to speak Russian in any Czech, Slovak or Hungarian pub, because people could beat you up. The main effect this last Russian invasion had so far was that it accelerated tremendously the signing of the U.S.-Polish agreement on the stationing of elements of the U.S. anti-missile shield on Polish soil. Is this what Russians wanted?

The answer? 1: Georgia was included voluntary for protection of against the Turk into structure of Russia. Learn лучьше history! The answer? 2: things in common can find certainly, but not aggressive behaviour and not deleting of peace city with peace inhabitants at night, I look your government searched for things in common under conflicts in Yugoslavia, Iraq, Afghanistan and wishes them to find with Венесуеллой, Iran, Northern Korea... The Answer? 3: Russia was and will be the guarantor of safety on caucasus because at us never was greater wars on caucasus, in difference from you! The answer? 4: and I hope Americans will understand that they enter дистабилизацию all over the world, including itself what that the god to which is allowed everything, but it not so! And on последок the USA cannot simply get used that the world to become again two polar. We always protected citizens from terrorists, and the USA on the contrary protects and protected terrorists!!! Talibs in Афганистане-terrorists, Kosovan албанцы-terrorists addicts.... The order in these countries has been destroyed by you and now these countries almost do not exist any more, there there is only a CHAOS!!! And you sit look TVs, news and are pleased as you wash out brains, the Level of your formation falls on the order, and for what? That you could be manipulated. As продолжаеться, Here my answer and a conclusion. And to data: in Russia not against Americans and the USA as a whole, we against your lime presidents which at authority owing to your bankers to whom your government owes huge money for all wars, and Bush and Кучка bankers operates you not. Think though time in a life of it why towers twins and the Pentagon have blown up? Though ненашли the plane about the Pentagon.

nikolai you are a simple imperialy minded russian man, its difficult for you to understand what is happening around because you are given enougn "poisoned food" in your country. Mind your own business! that's what you cannot do and want to punish everyone who do not understand the idia of "tsar batiushka".

3 recent Russian Lies:

#1 – President Medvedev said: “Our troops are going to be out [of Georgia] on Monday.” Of course, nothing happened on Monday [Aug 18], and the Russian Army continued to set up checkpoints in various parts of Georgia.

#2 – Then President Medvedev said: “Our troops are going to be out [of Georgia] on Wednesday.” Of course, nothing happened on Wednesday [Aug 20], and the Russian Army continued to set up checkpoints in various parts of Georgia.

#3 – The Russian Government said: “We’ve never used cluster munitions in Georgia.” Of course, the evidence that Russia used cluster munitions, particularly against the Georgian civilian population, is overwhelming.

Can anybody trust anything Russians say about Georgia? Can anybody trust ANYTHING Russians say???

to Def: "yeah baby! =) be afraid of us we are wild angry bears and we are have nuclear bombs for all americans =) we are the mad mauhaha"
you make it sound like a joke, but as the russians say, in every joke there is only a little part of joke, the rest is the truth. your cynical remark shows very well how the russians want to be regarded by the whole world. you guys want to be feared of. but that's not the way that will bring you any good in the long run. may be right now you feel victorious, but please think a little ahead. Empires like russia have been coming and going throughout history, but small countries like georgia have always been around. russia is playing a dengarous game for its own people in the first place.
i've lived in the soviet union until i was 12 (then it broke apart) and i've lived in the US for quite long. and let me tell you something, had the US government done what russia has done in the recent days in georgia, many americans would have been out in the streets protesting (history has shown that many times). as we see now, that's not the case in russia. that's why the russian federation seems to be so dengarous to me. its close to criminal government always gets support of the people. this is so weird, why is there no variety of opinions in a huge country like russia?

M.G. Gantenbein,

This ain't a fruitless argument. What I am trying to say to you and to other people is that thanks to media propaganda any Russian Government's initiative is associates in most of western common minds with a picture of stern soldiers in overcoats, marching on the Red square.

I DO ADMIT that invading Prague with tanks was a terrible mistake.
I DO ADMIT that most of Russian media are controlled by our government.
I DO ADMIT that Russian foreign policy is sometimes very far from being perfect.

And people opposing me here admit these facts too, and believe me, I never argued with them about these statements. But I can not keep silence when Russia is accused in crimes it never did. I understood you correctly, M.G. Gantenbein, and I was also speaking about caucasian attitude to Russian government. It is not single-valued. Neither it is in Tolstoy's works, believe me, I've read it in origin.

And I don't know who was the murderer of Politkovskaya, that's why I will not discuss this topic, but the question is, how do you know that KGB is guilty for that? CNN told you?

Did CNN told you, that USA left ABM limitation treaty and began negotiations with Poland and Czech republics. This is a direct destabilization. If the target is Iran and North Korea, than why didn't G.W. Bush accepted Putin's pffer to use base in Gabbala wich is closer both to Iran and North Korea. So who is taking first steps? A bear or a Defender of Liberty and Democracy?

This, indeed, would be a fruitless argument untill people understand, that we live in a 3D world and every coin has it's reverse side.

Dear Dmitry [Zlokazov],

What you’re saying is more or less true. But are you really surprised that the US is placing components of anti-missile shield in Poland and the Czech Republic? At the moment, Russia is run by one of the richest people on Earth – Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin. Do you think that someone, who’s worth at least 41 billion US dollars, would try to start a nuclear war with NATO? Unlikely! :)

Yes, his FSB friends kill some people who criticize him too much or just kidnap/drug them and make a nice movie about their ‘immoral activities’ (e.g., Ivan Rybkin), but Vladimir’s life is way too comfortable for risking the horrors of nuclear war or ANY WAR that he’s unlikely to win. But what about after Vladimir is gone? What if it’s not a billionaire who’s going to take over? Don’t you think that THEN the anti-Russian-missile shield in Europe could become quite handy? :)

Mirek, all that you have told, slander.
watch more your media bush production, eat more lies =)

Gyus, I'm not pretending on absolute truth just IMHO.

I'm Russian but I was born in Baku (a capital of a caucausian countryu – Azerbaydzhan). That was a joy to live there – frendly and polite people of all the caucausian nationalities lived there. Teachers, doctors, sientist, simple workers lived there friendly. When in 90th the war between Armenia and Azerbaydzhan begun (for a small piece of land) these peaople has chnaged greatly – mostly of them turned into bloody stincky fashists!

The lesson for me was that in deep of most of us lives an animal, a beast that is thirsty for others' blood but is sleeps calm under a cover of civilization and will sleep for ages until it is awaken by media being fed by politicians. That hae been hardly any war started by the will of people but after a 'great wiil' of its leaders. People of any country will never win of any war and never want to start it. Any war is money and power for that ugly politicians. Have you ever seen (or heard) of a purely honest and clean politician? If one chooses a ladder of politics and, especially, has a success in it I can call him dirty in advance.

That was in any war – WW2, Afganistan, Iraq, Kosovo, Georgia....any...

All, You are trying to find out – who is right in the conflict – you'll never get it – no one is right. Ask people who lives there, ask alive, dead, whether they was eager to start all this... both Georgian and Osetian..and Russian will answer you that they don't want it...they want to live in friendly peace...and they could do it if Bush, Saakashvili (a poor toy in giants battle) and Putin could concentrate not on the fact who is the most powerful but on the economics of their own country (both Russia and US faces crysis at the momment) and on the way how to live not 'in different countries' but 'on a single earth'... i know, sounds utopian, but it would be great if it could be like that....

I know two things:

1) Georgians troops killed about 1600 citizens in South Osetia
2) After Russian troops came in South Osetia, killing of citizens was stopped.

So, who is right?

And I know another thing: Georgian "democratic" government blocked Russian Internet sites in Georgia... Because Georgian government don't want its citizens know the truth. The truth about Georgians troops killed childes and destroying hospitals.

How many georgians was killed by russian troops? But Georgians troops killed about 1600 citizens in South Osetia.
It is a fact.

Mirek, go read some books.

You in general see as your government does of Russia the bad guy? As well as from Yugoslavia, Iraq, Iran, Венесуэллы...., enemies do not suffice you? Or you are not able to be friends? Your government should hold constantly you in fear what to have an opportunity you to manipulate. Choose the president with a head that then on demonstration to not go. For you prepare for the third world, and you and are glad!

Nestan I consider that from the USA double standards so why Russia cannot as to act? And on the account not my business as you have told... What your business explain to me. What your interests on other continent? Разберайтесь in the резервациях with Indians!

и вообще вам надо отказаться от признания независимости Косова. И прекратить терроризировать мирное население в странах где вы воюете, и вы держите весь мир в страхе перед войной!!! ПЕРЕВОДИТЕ САМИ!!!

опять мое сообщение удалили

http://usinfo.ru/intervencyiindex.htm если опять не удалят

Attempts of the American politicians again raise the question about the sovereignty of the Chechen Republic in connection with last events on Caucasus can to be considered only as provocation. So sharp reaction of the president of republic Ramzana of Kadyrov applications of the candidate in presidents of the USA of John Makkejna and have caused some other American politicians about intention to return to a question of the Chechen Republic and to not raise the question almost about a recognition of its independence.? Russia? Multinational and многоконфессиональное the state? It has told.? The national policy of the country considers various needs and expectations of all people living in Russia. People of the Chechen Republic in practice feels the accessory to the great country?. Kadyrov has emphasized, that today the federal center makes huge efforts and puts considerable means in economy and social sphere of republic.? Today the republic has passed from a phase of revival to steady development, and in it there is all prospects become one of leaders in the economic plan region of Russia? The president continued.? New shocks, than they would not be based, to us are not necessary. Inhabitants of the Chechen Republic, to the full felt charm of the pseudo-sovereignty, firmly declare what to such past of return cannot be?. Thus the chapter of republic has reminded, that five more years back on a referendum about the status of the Chechen Republic the unequivocal decision according to which ЧР is an integral part of the Russian Federation was accepted.? Therefore today any attempt reanimate or return to that situation can to be considered by us as provocative?? The president has declared.? I do not see any communication between an event in South Ossetia, Abkhazia and the Chechen Republic. Americans try to draw for ears the Chechen Republic to these events, but this unpromising employment?? It has emphasized.? Why they in America have not recollected the Chechen Republic when took away from Indonesia East Timor when splitted up at first Yugoslavia, and then Serbia? But it was necessary to Russia to prevent the next attempt of a genocide concerning people of South Ossetia and And

>The little region of Georgia, known as South Ossetia, about the size of
>one of our state’s counties, including many Russian paid mercenaries,
>started firing on the Georgians. The Georgians had a responsibility to
>protect their citizens in their own country.
And Georgians killed about 2100 Ossetain citizens... to protect citizens in Georgia...
How many Georgian citizens was killed? Georgia hide this information... Think about it...

эти американцы нифига не понимают в калбасных абрезках =)

I'm addressing to everyone who can compare facts adequately and does not follow the tastes of the liars saying that black is white, kindly is malicious, and protection of the world population is «aggression against little Georgia». We are revolted by the lie which the Georgian authorities broadcast worldwide by means of mass-media that believe in any fable about «brutal Russians». Here are some questions that arise from the situation analysis:
1) WHO STARTED THE WAR? Could that be Russians who at the moment ran to about 150 people and who did not have any heavy armour and artillery? They were resisted by the multiplely superior forces of Georgia armed with tanks, grenade cup discharges and artillery.
2) WHO HAS SUFFERED? During the first days of the conflict more than 2 thousand civilians of South Ossetia were lost. Residential areas were shelled precisely, the unique pieces of architecture which are under protection of UNESCO are destroyed. And there were 70 Russian soldiers, who literally covered old people, women and kids with their bodies. Georgian negative profit is not known till now. Anyway, quantity of the civilians who have suffered during bombardment of military base in Gori is incommensurably less than thousands of perished Ossetians. If these figures were at least a little comparable, the authorities of Georgia would not fail to puff them up till fantastic sizes and to trumpet about them all over the world.
3) WHO FIGHTED AGAINST WHOM? From the aforesaid it is obvious that Georgians were annihilating civilians, and Russian were protecting the Ossetians.
4) WHAT DOES GEORGIA DO IT FOR? The official position of Georgia is that South Ossetia is the Georgian territory, and those who do not admit that are criminals-separatists. However, the referendum which has passed in South Ossetia has shown that 99 \% of its population support independence from Georgia. Thus, 99 \% of the population of South Ossetia must be regarded as separatists. Does that mean the whole nation may be annihilated?
5) WHY DID RUSSIA BOMB GORI? The reason was the same as the USA had when they bombed military facilities in Yugoslavia. Russia was destroying the military base supplying military criminals with the weapon, the criminals who were crushing with tanks grandmothers with their grandkids, the criminals who were shooting from sniper rifles at ambulance cars, leaving seriously injured Russians and the Ossetians to die painfully near the killed drivers, the criminals who had been shooting at FOX NEWS correspondents on the territory of Gori.
6) WHO IS MICHAEL SAAKASHVILI? He is a person who can see and hear better than his bodyguards who till now do not understand why he suddenly started looking around and then ran with shouts "leave" and fall to the ground. He is a person who behaves very easy online and permits himself to put a good half of his red tie into his mouth. It would be ridiculous, if it was not so terrible. This person recognizes tanks in outskirts of Tbilisi as Russian materiel and cries out «Russians coming!!!» And this is only one of the examples of scandalous misinformation at once spread by western mass-media. It is easy to understand the indignation of «Russia Online» operator who saw his own shots of Tskhinvali destroyed by Georgians with a mark «consequences of bombardments in Gori». You do not believe? “You tube” is at your service!
And last question – is SUCH Georgia worth the American support? Worth participating in the genocide by delegating 180 military advisers? Making an ass of oneself when transferring the unchecked data? Does America need cowardly and, what is the most awful, inadequate allies? Why Kosovo is independent, the Yugoslavian leaders appear at court one after another, but in Georgia and South Ossetia there is the opposite situation?
We do not hope to get answers to these questions. We believe that sane people, including Americans, would think once again about who needs the events in South Ossetia and why. For what sake have to perish thousands of civilians who do not wish to see the criminal hypocritically appealing to mercy and justice as their ruler?
Let everyone get one’s bitters!

all these prorussian posts make me wanna puke

>all these prorussian posts make me wanna puke
You believe only CNN propaganda or facts?

To all Americans and Europeans:

I admire Dmitry Zlokazov`s posts here & and advice everybody to read them. I`m sure Dmitry was a sincere pro-western democrat in 1990-s. Maybe he still believes in a European (not Asian and not isolated) feture or Russia. Me too. But day after day my belief is getting weaker.
Soviet Union and Russia made many mistakes (as well as USA, GB, Poland and others). But I ask politicians, journalists and all common people in western countries: PLEASE DON`T ACCUSE RUSSIA IN CRIMES IT NEVER DID! Or soon you will see not liberal Medvedev as Russian president but Zhirinovsky or Rogozin (having their nationalistic ideas as a state policy).
Antirussian stereotypes are playing the very bad role in the US and European politics. When Putin tries to built pragmatic relations with all countries he is accused to be nationalist, when he speaks that Russia just want peace and respect he is supposed to be lier, when he defends Russian citizens and saves thousands of lifes he is called an agressor. Isn`t it too much??? If you keep doing so soon you will have a real agressor ahead of Russia.
The so-called «cases of Politkovskaya and Litvinenko», Chechen war demonstrated THE WORST ANTIRUSSIAN STEREOTYPES. I also don`t know who killed Politkovskaya but Putin was the LAST man who made benefit of this murder. But he was made guilty by all western TV-channelas and newspapers.
When you are saying so serious about Politkovskaya`s activities it`s just funny for the Russians. You have so many illusions:) You think she was really dangerous for the Russian government? Ha-ha! Her death made much more problems to the government than her activities. Her death was a very good chance to criticize Russia.
If you want to know Politkovskaya was marginal journalist. Without any influence on political and intellectual life. I read her articles but they were full of obvious lie, illogical and so on. Let`s be honest: her articles intended for Americans and Europeans who are always ready to blame Russia and Russian government in cruelty, meanness and agressiveness.
I can compare Politkovskaya with these not very clever people in the USA who glorify 11 september terracts and call to destroy the american state referring to it`s imperfection. Do you get them serious?
Maybe Russians speak too much about so called double-standarts in western politics and mass-media. But double-standarts (double-moral) are obvious and looking like very cynical. America and Europe didn`t notice human rights derangements and ignoring of constitution in 1993 when Yetsin shooted the House of Parliament. Certainly, it weakened Russia and weak Russia is what the West really need. But when Putin in 1999 began anti-terrorist operation in Dagestan and Chechnya the whole world began to howl. Manipulating with basic democratic values is the main line of foreign policy in many Western countries (especially USA & GB).
Chechnya is the most terrible example of stereotypes and conscious misinformation in the West. The first Chechen war (started in 1994) was a big mistake, on my opinion. There mas a chance to solve the separatist problem without violation in the early 90-s. Educated people in Russia were against this invasion. Dudaev and his army were dangerous separatists but not terrorists. They just wanted their land to be free from collapsing Russian state. Most of Chechens didn`t want real independence; just autonomy that`s why agreement was potentially reachable. Russian government made a big mistake in 1994, many Chechens and many Russians were killed. At last the Khasaviurt truce was reached in 1996 and Chechnya became de facto independent country.
Do you know what was going on there between 1996 and 1999? I`m sure you don`t. Endless wars beetween clans, drug-traffic, executions on the central square of Grozny. Finally arab exremists made Chechnya their camp on the Caucasus. Thousands of terrorists were trained up in the mountains while Chechen government (Mashadov) was weak and incapable. In August 1999 several thousands of well-trained, well-equiped mercenaries (mainly arabs but there were o lot of Chechens, Russians, Ukranians, Turks) invaded Dagestan. Their purpose was to create « Great vahhabit state» including Chechnya, Dagestan, Ingushetia and other republics in that region. At the same time Chechen terrorists outbursted 4 blocks of flats in Moscow and central Russia and 2 airplaines. Russians will always remember this time of fear. it`s like 11 september for Americans. Terrorists and their camps were destroyed. I repeat: terrorists but not seperatists. In fact there were very few seperatists in Chechnya by 1999. Chechens obtained independence in 1996 and how did they use it? The whole region was full of desperados, cities and villages were ruined, violence and chaos were everywhere. That`s why the bigger part of separatists, who fought against Russian army in the first Chechen war, took Russian part in the second. 99% of Russian population supported Russian government in the II Chechen war.
Nowadays Chechnya is one of the richest regions of Russian Federation. People in central Russia respect Putin and his activities, people in Chechnya LOVE him (feel the difference). Peace, friendship and welfare – that`s what they dreamed about through the 90-s. Believe me, not about independence. I know many Chechens.
So fhat`s all I think about antirussian stereotypes in the West and real situation here in Russia. By the way, there are no bears on our streets:) And can you imagine(!): if you will go out and cry «Putin is a dirty bastard» nobody will kill you or arrest you. Maybe somebody even support you and you will cry together:) But most people just wan`t understand you because Putin made Russian people more wealthy, self-confident and (you wan`t believe) more free.